Matt, Curious what rack or platform, footers, and PCs you are using when comparing DACs. Are you holding those variables constant, or tweaking to find the best result for each application? I have found that for some components these tweaks can make very meaningful differences, and at your high level of performance could possibly erase some of the minor distinctions between DACs. |
"But I see no reason to give credence to vague statements (teenager? Does a couple of things well?) that don't square up with those of very experienced listeners I know and trust, not to mention my own and the general consensus of experts around the globe. Leads me to question the foundation (i.e. accuracy) of said opinions. Also, if you have truly been looking for a refererence red book DAC for 3 years and can't find one, that is truly bizarre. There are many good ones out there."
You obviously haven't kept up with this thread or gone back to read most of the last few pages. The statement 'does a few things well' is a quote from a DAC designer of one of the better rated DAC's in the world. I have mentioned things I personally don't love about the DAVE, but have said it's still a good DAC for some. Just not for me and I've heard it plenty to know that. Its not like I heard it at a show (don't attend shows) where it will never sound it's best. As for 'experts', I've addressed that a few posts above. I trust my own ears and others should trust theirs.
I realize that folks live in areas where they can't go audition a lot of stuff. That's difficult, but when spending money like this on gear and not hear it first is a personal choice. Not one that I'd normally make, but I DID buy my first ever component based on Matt's and one other's recommendation. I bought the ODSE/SE used from another poster on this thread. It turned out to be a great move on my part. I also paid exactly what I knew I could turn around and resell it for if I didn't like it. I knew Matt personally by then and knew his ear enough to realize that we are close in our listening, but more important, I knew where we differ.
I never have, nor do I care if I 'square up with those of very experienced listeners I know and trust, not to mention my own and the general consensus of experts around the globe. Leads me to question the foundation (i.e. accuracy) of said opinions."
If you feel that you need to have your listening validated by others, then go for it. I know many who are into that and that's cool too. I've made a few enemies posting in this thread and on boards in general as I have no filters. I have also made a few good friends on this thread. Guys I really enjoy meeting up with and talking to.
Matt, we need to talk about electrical as I'm bringing in an electrician and I'm going to run new dedicated lines. |
There are lots of really really good ones compared to just 5 years ago. It's a golden age for DACs. What cost 40k 5 years ago can be had for 5k now. Many of the new ones sound great direct to the new fancy amps, further enhancing resolution and cost efficiency. The streamers can be controlled from an iPad. Tons of lossless content available via monthly subscription. It's pretty amazing when you think about it, comparing to not too long ago. Good luck finding a reference.
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Limniscate- HF filter off.
Randy-11 - not sure how to answer that. My room is fully dedicated. It has its own sub-panel with 5 dedicated audio lines of EXACTLY the same length to avoid group loop issues. The panel utilizes EP ground filters and an EP mains filter/surge protection. The room is wired with top grade outlets and I am currently comparing an Audio Magic Oracle and my Shunyata AV hydra conditioner. The amps run straight into the wall. All power cords are currently Shunyata Alpha versions. I’d love to upgrade eventually to Enklein David’s! Did that answer your question? |
Wardl - never said I didn't find a "good one". I've been enjoying my Empirical Audio OverDrive SE (and now my upgraded SX) pretty much kick ass and take names for almost that entire time. It's truly THAT good!!!!!! But I'm looking for the best! I thought the Emm DA2 was going to be it, and it wasn't. The Davinci Light Harmonic 2 (auditioned the LH #1) was sublime. Same voicing and tonal balance of my ODSX but just better in every way.
I can list 10 "good" DAC's ! But I'm looking for the ultimate reference (in my system)! 😜 |
I'm not upset, dude. It's audio gear. Not something I would get upset over. But I see no reason to give credence to vague statements (teenager? Does a couple of things well?) that don't square up with those of very experienced listeners I know and trust, not to mention my own and the general consensus of experts around the globe. Leads me to question the foundation (i.e. accuracy) of said opinions. Also, if you have truly been looking for a refererence red book DAC for 3 years and can't find one, that is truly bizarre. There are many good ones out there.
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So Matt, I see a DaVinci mk 1 on Audiogon for only 15k. Wow. |
Wardl, sorry to have upset you over my post. As I always say we all hear differently and I trust what I hear when I audition. I've been doing it for a long long time as have many others. As Matt said, it's hard to go off of reviews. I know things about reviews and reviewers that would make many laugh or cringe. It's a reality in audio good or bad. There are a few reviewers I do like and respect. That said, how many not so hot reviews have we all read on products? Are there that many great products on the market? Maybe.
BTW, did you read my last statement? I try and always put that in when I am not as positive about a product as reviewers or fans of a product. We all hear differently. |
Aolmrd1241 - an excellent question. The answer is, about 85% red book and 15% high res. But if it makes red book sound good then hi-Rez is wow!!!!
wardl - I agree and disagree with your last statement. Many many audiophiles don't have access to local stores and shows, and don't have the funds to buy and try and sell at a loss. I have come upon and interacted with MANY who use this thread as one of a varied number of resources upon which a decision is made to make a purchase; DAC's, speakers, or otherwise. I'm always happy to offer off thread opinions and advise. For some, listening to a certain high ticket item is practically impossible and by using this thread, other forums, and reviews from their personal trusted reviewer they make purchases they are subsequently VERY happy with.
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Matt,are you still using redbook as the de facto reference for all of your listening sessions or have you also incorporated high res into the mix? Seeing this thread is three years old and the original basis is/was for "absolute top tier dac for standard resolution redbook cd"...my question would be...are your listening decisions based on redbook cd only? Or are you now commenting more so on high res playback.
Thanks...Mark
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Well other than the OP that is... |
I don't feel attacked. Just making a point that nobody should be making any purchasing decisions or ruling out products they might otherwise consider based on the discussion in this thread. |
Wardl- I don’t speak in absolutes nor make blanket statements. System matching is everything. I have said over and over again that these are my ears, my room and my system. I try to report what I hear. It’s not what everyone will hear. I don’t like the PS Audio DAc while others LOVE it and defend it vehemently.
I knew I was opening Pandora’s box when I posted my audition findings about the DAVE. But they are not right or wrong, just what I heard. The DAVE has a huge following and I’m sure it floats many many boats. To be fair, I need to let it burn in for several hundred more hours to make a final evaluation. But I said that. Maybe it sounded "immature" because, well, it is. Lol.
If you ask 10 audiophiles what qualities in a system gets their juices flowing, and gets them "Lost In The Music," your will get 20 different answers. None of us are right or wrong. D
No one should feel attacked if their favorite kit gets a bad review somewhere, or has something else chosen over it. If we all liked the same thing, we’d all have identical systems and every other company could just close up shop.
Vive’le’differanz!!!!
That all said, I don’t trust reviews. They are mostly subsidized advertising. And everyone who reads an audio magazine or watches an on-line audio web-zine needs to know that. Unless there is no money for goods or services being exchanged, their will be a bias and an alternate motive. I have no motivation but to get the best sound I can.
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Uhh ok. I guess all the others across the world are wrong about the Dave and you are right. It basically does a couple of good things and otherwise sucks. Lol. IMO this is why a few anecdotal statements on a message board in isolation are basically useless. Look at the body of reviews and experiences, and make your own mind up. |
That can happen in all digital systems. I have heard the DAVE in my own as well as two others and have heard the same thing. No coherency. I asked another very well known and respected DAC designer about the DAVE and he said that it does a few things really good, but overall sounds the way that Matt has posted.
Again, we all hear differently. |
The synergy of digital set ups with other components in the chain has a such huge impact on the end product. For example, I can say the Dave fed by Lumin U1, going direct to Soulution 511 monos pushing Magico M3s (my digital system) certainly does not lack layers, note decay or coherence. The sound is unbelievable and I would say the Dave excels in all these areas and will crush DACs much more expensive in sound quality. But what cstooner may hear in his system or Matt in his, with their components etc, it can be very different. |
what are you doing in regards to electrical noise for the Dave & others? |
Might also want to check out the Chord Blu Mk 2 for the DAVE. New CD transport that can be used as a digital upscaler and is designed to work with DAVE. Supposedly significantly increases performance of DAVE (per the designer and some in Asia that have heard it). I have a DAVE and have one on order. Ships to US June. Good luck. |
Are you using the HF filter option on the Dave? |
Everything you have said about the DAVE is what I too have heard. I could never relax into the music when it was in the system. This is why I went with the QX5/20. It has layers and is more musical for me. It's coherent. Matt, you know how we always talk about coherency, so I find it interesting that you too brought this up.
Digital is sooo soooo difficult to do properly. To get it to sound organic and musical is so hard with all the timing errors you have. That's a big reason why so many DAC's fall short as they try so hard to be the last bastion of detail, but they lose some of the body of the music by doing this. You may have found a more transparent or more extended DAC, but I bet when you listen, you lack the body that you love.
Thanks again Matt. You will take much flax from the DAVE fans, but you do give it a real listen and it's appreciated. |
** Audition report **
I had the opportunity to spend about 2 hours this morning comparing my ODSX and my Chord DAVE, which now has about 290 hours on it. Because my ODSX was upgraded to the Ethernet input I lost my prized Off Ramp USB input which i miss terribly. I do think that the Off Ramp was part of the magic and I am almost definitely going to send the ODSX back to have the Ethernet input removed and my old Off Ramp input reinstalled. I have been blown away by the performance of the ODSX overall but i constantly feel that there is a veil in the upper registers that is the only thing holding the ODSX from being SO good that nothing else (cost wise) would be worth even listening to anymore.... I'm using the ODSX with the spdif input currently. Its got about 1000 hours on it, so its as burned in as its going to be. This "veil" is not as much a lack of anything as it is an understatement of what there is. Its not bright, its not shouty, its not fatiguing, its not overstated, its just not. Its tonal reproduction is dead on, timbre is luxurious and recreation of instruments and vocal texture is sublime. When I ask my son (the musician) which DAC he prefers he reliably choses the ODSX (except when the Davinci was here) and when I ask why he says that the ODSX makes everything sound like instruments sound on stage when he is performing. But when I compare it to the DAVE and when I compared it to the Emm DA-2 I find both of those DAC's to be a tad more exposing of the upper registers and when I switch back to the ODSX it feels like thats missing... With that said, the one word I used to describe the DA-2 was "Accurate" and the one word I would use to describe the DAVE is "Clean." While the one word I have used to describe the ODSX is "Engaging." The one word I used to describe the Davinci LH was "Woah."
Lets be thorough though...
The Chord DAVE i ordered was silver and is eloquently implemented, small in stature, dense in implementation and the equivalent of a petite supermodel. I cant keep my hands off it and I find myself glancing sideways while I'm listening to look at it slyly like I'm sneaking a peak at a women changing clothes through a window I'm not supposed to be able to see... I almost feel dirty. lol.. Needless to say the designer hit it out of the park. Its buttons and its back panel are well laid out, the large display is easy to read and easily displays the information it is supposed to. And the remote is simple and functional. Although it has been described by some as lacking low frequency extension and others as being punchy and energetic, I would say that its extension is unrestricted and its energy is youthful and exuberant. But like a teenager, what is has in energy and exuberance it lacks in maturity; which became my general impression throughout the listening session. As previously stated, where i constantly hear that blasted veil with the ODSX, the DAVE extends "cleanly" and without restriction to the nether regions of infantile hearing. If there were a DAC that could reproduce a 1000 KHz signal, this would be it. Mids were well represented and properly presented. Along with its extension and sparkle came a slight but noticeable over exaggeration of specific instruments in space and in time. Whereas the ODSX presented a seamless orchestra or jazz band with each instrument equally presented and highlighted, the DAVE chose to highlight a specific instrument or vocal timbre leaving the rest sort of in the background. Again, it lacked a sense of maturity and complexity in reproduction that made me feel like everything that was supposed to be there, was there. But that there was a lack of integration and coherence that the ODSX gave me naturally and without even highlighting that it was doing it.
For those with some literary exposure, the DAVE reminded me of the automatic sentient door from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy that was constantly asking if it did a good job and wanted to make sure that its opening and closing was as pleasing to the user as possible; but just never really "got it."
I kept writing "immature" and "where's the layers?" in my notes. The greatest lack in complexity was clearly mids and down, and the highs seamed a touch overstated; but not to a fault.
Interestingly, when I had the Davinci in, I never heard the veil. I didn't hear it in the Davinci and I didn't hear it when I switched back to the ODSX. And I found the tonal structure of the LH to be simply correct from top to bottom. The ODSX sounds like the LH's baby brother in every conceivable way. This keeps telling me that the ODSX is not veiled at all, and that the other DAC's i am hearing are simply overstating a tonal signature that many like hearing and consider to be a sign of accuracy. I may be wrong....
I have a very standard listening routine and a standard list of music. At the conclusion i always put on a piece of music that i love simply because it has the ability to grab my emotional innards and, when presented correctly, physically rip me away from any possibility of critically listening because I lose myself in the majesty and grandier of the music. My eyes instinctively close, my arms start moving around like the Diva from The Fifth Element and I'm sure i look a complete fool; but the moment is emotionally sublime and I'm left at the conclusion half giddy and half euphoric. When I played the DAVE i was firmly fixed in critical listening mode throughout the piece. When I switched to the ODSX I don't even remember what happened... And that says it all!
I will repeat my listening session again in another 200 hours with a fresh and completely open mind. And I will have some audio buddies over in the meantime to listen and tell me I'm a fool and that the DAVE is WAY better then the ODSX; or maybe not.
As always, thanks for following along.
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Schiit, Yggy, Benchmark, etc all represent huge values for their respectively priced market. Its always great feeling you are getting MORE then you paid for! Congrats to all who have posted and found grea DAC’s with such high performance to budget ratios!
I’m after the cost no object, absolute reference, defining DAC that makes your digital sound like your listening to an original reel to reel master tape! The hunt has taken over 3 years thus far and led me through dozens of DAC’s ranging in price form $6,500 to $43,000! They are massively different and range in performance equally massively. Price does not ALWAYS correlate with performance; but I have found around $7,500-8,000 is the floor below which it becomes increasingly difficult to find something truly reference level. I have heard MANY DAC’s over $9k that perform more like $4,500 DAC’s. But I have not heard ANY $4,500 DAC’s that perform like the best $9+k DAC’s......
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which others have you done listening tests of the Benchmark Media DAC3 against?
I like the price & features... |
Benchmark Media DAC3. Nothing comes close. |
Intersting. As much as the Dave isn't my taste, I have never found it harsh. If anything, it's the polar opposite to me as well as anyone else I've ever spoken with who has heard one. Very interesting. As much as you love your Yggy, it's honestly not in the same league as these other DACs that Matt and others are discussing. Feel free to bring it over to my house and we can spend the day listening to the QX5/20 and the Yggy. |
I own the Ayre C5......no need for anything else. Great
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I’m using AES through a Singxer SU-1 with a Transparent Reference cable from a Sonore Microrendu with Curious USB cable. Microrendu is powered by an Uptone LPS-1.
Shunyata Zitron Python XLR from DACs to preamp.
ARC Ref5SE is the preamp with a Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme Blue power cable. Sanders Magtech amp with Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme Blue power cable to Magnepan 3.7i with Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme speaker cables.
The Dave seems a little harsher than the Yggy. The Yggy sounds slightly more natural. However, it may edge it out in resolution by a hair.
I need to test the Dave with the HiFilter on. |
Just proves that different ears in different rooms listening to different equipment hear different things.
There are those that consider the DAVE revolutionary! I have one in my room right now. My initial impressions will be posted shortly.
I’m glad you found a DAC you are happy with Limbiscate! That’s awesome.
If I may, "better" is a decision. To the readers a decision is good to know, but WHY is useful to everyone. So please give us the sound qualities of both, pros, cons, and what led you to your decision. Then we can all have a reference point to compare to something everyone may be familiar with |
Well, I have a Chord Dave now, and my initial impressions are that I like the Yggy better. |
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Your getting into a real snake pit
At 10k. Buy the first one ya see
It will do something real good |
Yup, but again, this thread is about the best DAC's and the Codex and Yiggy aren't in that discussion as Matt's thrown out before. last note and I'll join a new thread if you start it, those DAC's sound pretty different to most folks who have heard both. I'm surprised that you didn't hear a difference the second time.
For anyone who reads my thoughts on sound, I like a coherent sound (this is why I love and own Vandersteen's (now the Quatro's) that has no smearing and is full range. I must have a realistic sound stage and imaging. Tonality, time and pace of the music are also paramount. For some reason, I can't listen to a system that is too hot on top. That doesn't mean not extended, it means not distorted.
Yes, Vandersteen's to me are the best speaker I've heard, but IRT electronics, as much as I love Ayre and own Ayre, I also like a lot of other gear. I have recently owned Steven Nuggent's DAC and found it to be outstanding. As dynamic as you could get at the time and very extended. Never etched though. It wasn't nearly as liquid in the mids though and I like the Ayre much better because of it.
Hopefully that explains my posts and why I don't like many of the very expensive DAC;s on the market (I do love plenty of them though, lol).
Matt and I speak on a fairly regular basis and yes I'm planing on getting down there in the near future. We like a lot of the same sound, but like all of us, hear a bit differently. It will be interesting to hear what he finally has put in place.
I know that a few companies will be coming back to the US market within the next year and they will bring very high end DAC's in and I can't wait to hear them also. This thread should be going for a long long time, lol. |
Guys, I"ve had the Yggy in my system on two occasions. One for was about 5 days. I had a Codex in the house and did my own listening. I then invited a few friends over to hear both units. The Codex won every time. The people listening weren't really audiophiles, just music lovers an one was a pro musician. They never asked which piece was which, ,but it also wasn't a scientific test.
The Codex threw a wider stage, went deeper in the bass and has much more detail. The pace and rhythm was there in spades. There was a male vocal (forget who) that had a reverberation in that lower mid that sounded right on the Codex. The Yiggy was close, but it didn't give the same emotion that the Codex did.
I can see why Schitt has a following. Great products for reasonable cost. I spoke to two owners of the units who post on Computer Audiophile I believe it is and they both had posts about the Yiggy besting the Codex etc... I PM"d them and spoke to both. Neither had ever heard the Codex let alone had one in their system. I found that strange. When I talk about a product it may have been hearing it once in a shop or someone else's system and me not liking what I hear right up front. Could be many reasons, but I'm not the type to get excited about the TV on the floor at Best Buy that's the brightest of the bunch and stands out because of it.
If you feel the Yiggy is better than the top DAC's Matt has had in his system, then that's awesome. My post wasn't meant as a mean spirited comment to you, but I did dismiss it based on my own listening (The Codex isn't in the same league as the QX5/20 so I made an assumption that the Yiggy can't hold a candle to the QX5/20). The QX5/20 isn't quite as good as some of the DAC's in the 18 and above, but better than a few I"ve heard.
If you want to get Matt Yiggy to go up against the others, I'm sure he'll plug it into his system for a day. If we can set that up for the day I get to visit with my Ayre piece then that would be great too. Maybe I'll hear differently in Matt's room (can't wait to get there Matt).
Interesting. I tested the Ayre Codex v. Schiit Yggdrasil. The first time it seemed like the Yggy had more bass and the Ayre had more liquid mids. On the second occassion, we held everything constant and volume-matched, and neither I nor my friend could distinguish the two. Are you sure that you volume-matched? |
Ejr1953 - great post to start on a new thread.
Totally not what this thread is about though. |
I have been enjoying a PS Audio DirectStream DAC now for about 18 months, about a year ago added a PS Audio PerfectWave transport to play CDs. I use an HDMI cable and connect the two using the I2S interface.
I see that they've discontinued the PerfectWave transport and replaced it with an upgraded DirectStream transport, which from what I read, outputs native DSD out the I2S port (in a way that Sony approves, to prevent people from making illegal copies of DSD played off SACDs), and is supposed to sound significantly better than the combination I'm using.
Anyone upgraded from the PerfectWave to the DirectStream transport also using the DirectStream DAC...have any insight to share? |
another consideration is that DACs evolve more rapidly than other components, so the very best today will likely soon be superceded
not so much with speakers, pre-amps, etc.
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Sunandmusic - haven’t heard it sorry.
The group of people that regularly post on this thread seam to have a lot of experience hearing many different DAC’s. If any of us make a comment, it’s pretty reliable (here) that the statement is being made with auditory experience to back it up. Otherwise most of us just say we havent heard it.
Also, we all have different tastes. So a lot of times it’s more important to ask "why"’something was preferred then "what" was preferred.
I just finished a 2.5 hour comparison of the ODSX and the DAVE and have some impressions. I don’t have time to post them now. But the why, and sonic descriptions will likely be more useful to many then which I chose as "better"....
stay tuned. |
I would love to hear the Areas Cerat Kassandre DAC as the design of it appeals to me. Sadly no dealers near me in the UK. Anyone here heard it?
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Guys, I"ve had the Yggy in my system on two occasions. One for was about 5 days. I had a Codex in the house and did my own listening. I then invited a few friends over to hear both units. The Codex won every time. The people listening weren't really audiophiles, just music lovers an one was a pro musician. They never asked which piece was which, ,but it also wasn't a scientific test.
The Codex threw a wider stage, went deeper in the bass and has much more detail. The pace and rhythm was there in spades. There was a male vocal (forget who) that had a reverberation in that lower mid that sounded right on the Codex. The Yiggy was close, but it didn't give the same emotion that the Codex did.
I can see why Schitt has a following. Great products for reasonable cost. I spoke to two owners of the units who post on Computer Audiophile I believe it is and they both had posts about the Yiggy besting the Codex etc... I PM"d them and spoke to both. Neither had ever heard the Codex let alone had one in their system. I found that strange. When I talk about a product it may have been hearing it once in a shop or someone else's system and me not liking what I hear right up front. Could be many reasons, but I'm not the type to get excited about the TV on the floor at Best Buy that's the brightest of the bunch and stands out because of it.
If you feel the Yiggy is better than the top DAC's Matt has had in his system, then that's awesome. My post wasn't meant as a mean spirited comment to you, but I did dismiss it based on my own listening (The Codex isn't in the same league as the QX5/20 so I made an assumption that the Yiggy can't hold a candle to the QX5/20). The QX5/20 isn't quite as good as some of the DAC's in the 18 and above, but better than a few I"ve heard.
If you want to get Matt Yiggy to go up against the others, I'm sure he'll plug it into his system for a day. If we can set that up for the day I get to visit with my Ayre piece then that would be great too. Maybe I'll hear differently in Matt's room (can't wait to get there Matt). |
High price does not always equal better!! This is a fact. There are $8k DAC’s (ODSE & APL DSD-SR for example) that I would chose without hesitation over many $12, $18k, $24k or $35k DAC’s. As an example, the new Reference Emm DA-2 was disappointing to say the least. I bought it, I auditioned it, and I traded it. But experience has taught me that there is also a pseudo-floor of about $8k below which currently nothing exists to compete favorably with the top tier DAC’s. If someone wants to prove that wrong please send me their sub $8k giant killer for audition and I will be happy to report my findings. That all said, I will gladly admit that the Davinci Light Harmonic DAC (which is around $35k) is the best damn DAC I have ever had in my system and mine will be arriving in about 3 weeks for permanent residence, or until something better dethrones it.
Which hits on my next point, just made by Dragon_Vibe, and he’s 100% correct. BE CAREFUL OF RAVE REVIEWS IN MAGAZINES, ON-LINE REVIEWS AND FORUMS. You would be shocked to see how many reviews are essentially just paid advertisements, how many on-line raves are subsidized and how many forums are fed info by people with motivations to sell product.
FROM DAY ONE, I HAVE PUT MY OWN MONEY OUT TO BUY EVERY DAC (and now have some sent to me for honest audition) I HAVE AUDITIONED! I DONT REVIEW, I AUDITION AND COMPARE TO WHAT I CURRRNTLY HAVE. IF ITS BETTER, IT STAYS. IF ITS NOT BETTER, IT GETS SOLD (or sent back). My opinions are 100% sincere and unbiased. If a company wants to send me something for audition they better be comfortable with me reporting to you guys that I don’t like it. Period. You get the whole truth!! Also, NOTHING gets auditioned without cooking for a minimum of 500 hours in my room to make sure it’s well burned in, settled, and has the best opportunity to sound its best.
With a new flow of DAC’s coming out, I’d love to get my hands on a top tier Playback Designs to audition, especially with Dragon_Vibes comments, and I look forward to CTSooner bringing his prized Ayre DAC over this summer for a good listen. I have no interest in buying a Golden Gate, but I’d still love to hear one in my room so I have an educated reference for you guys.
That all said, I will today be auditioning and comparing my (yes i purchased it to audition it) Chord DAVE DAC. A friend is coming over and we will be comparing it to my current reference ODSX. We will also be comparing the Aurender N10 I am borrowing to a Micro-computer running Windows and JRiver through a Micro-Rendu. That should also be a cool comparison. I don’t believe any fancy power supplies are involved so it should be a fair off the shelf comparison.
Thanks everyone for keeping this thread fresh and interesting! |
After my experience with MSB, Lampi, AMR, Chord and Playback Design i am no longer in the camp that believes the more you pay the more you get. No longer do I rely on Magazine Reviews or Forum Hype that one DAC destroyed another.
My playback designs runs circles around more higher priced DACs. This was a eye opener for me. I am yet to try out very cheap DACs to compare but I believe the FPGA and R2R dacs at the moment are reigning suprema in the digital domain.
Forum Hype is a dangerous marketing tool for the uninitiated with limited experience.
Every month a new DAC company will prop up and everyone will claim this is the next best thing. Enough with the crap... |
While I agree one should not dismiss a product based on its price, you hardly ever see anyone hook up a $1000 component to a $20000 piece in a given system and perform a blind listening test. Similarly, there are a lot of disappointed shoppers who bring home a component that sounded incredible at the dealer showroom and find that it sounds like crap in their system at home. Folks usually buy what's at the extreme of their budget and generally speaking the more you pay the better the sound. |
Many say otherwise.
That is why he needs to try one blind and hear for himself. Never dismiss a product based on its price. |
Not even close to the same ball park of the DAC's being discussed in this thread Randy. It's a nice DAC for the price and should be put up against the Ayre Codex and some others in that range, but it's just not what this thread is about. Takes nothing away from a nice DAC for it's price range though. |
I'd be sure and try out a Yggy |
Agree with you Matt. I LOVE my Ayre QX5/20. It really is a great DAC, but I'm under no illusions that it's better than the TotalDac and many of the other 18k plus DAC's. It does, for my ears beat a couple of the 18k plus DAC's though, but I'll keep that off line in convo's with you, LOL.....Matt, you have found your nirvana DAC. That said, it's a great thread and you are still bringing in a lot of the 8-18k DAC's. You should add the Ayre as well as the Brinkmann DAC's. I heard the Brinkmann and I don't remember if I told you about it, but it's a really nice unit. Like the Ayre, very very musical and plenty of the micro and macro detail that both companies are known for. I think both hit well above their price ranges. Totally different design as the Ayre is still a whole digital front end (pray folks never use a DAC as a pre amp though) and the Brinkmann is just a great DAC so you'd still need a streamer for you Tidal or Pandora etc... I'd love to see how close to the TotalDAC it could be. Or even the ODSX (wish that was a remote as I would have done the upgrade when Steve had it in to work on), but I needed remote with my MS and having a family who uses the system. |
Pennsy- there are a lot of giant killer DAC’s out there. The Empirical Audio ODSE is under $9k and has destroyed DAC’s scoring 4x as much. It was my reference for years until I upgraded it to the ODSX $14k version. The PS audio DAC has been brought up repeatedly; and although very good does not compare to most of the other DAC’s listed here; this is from direct comparison.
That said, some of our systems are Statement/Reference level and can benefit from the best available. This thread is about "Absolute Top Tier" and that is what I am after.
To a certain extent, this thread has become a sports team debate... if your a PS Audio fan, or Bricasti, or Ayre, or Schiit, or Lampy, it’s all good. As long as YOU are happy with your system then that’s what counts!!
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Big money doesn't mean better! I purchased a Krell preamplifier for 7.5 k and later a marantz preamp for 4k that ran circles around the krell! Dacs are the same! PS Audio Direct Stream DAC is amazing for a whole lot less than 20k! Unless your system is Levison, Audio Research, McIntosh, etc! The PS Audio Direct Stream will do the job!'n |
Thanks Matthew. I had an NDS I believe it was, but it wasn't for me. I didn't like the lack of usb or ethernet inputs and the outputs weren't balanced (need balanced with Ayre gear). Just want's the right match for my system. I've heard it in a few stores and it sounded pretty good. A bit too much on the top end for my tastes, but that's a popular sound, especially in Europe. It's a great build and looks nice too. |
