A challenge to the "measurement" camp

@geoffkait
Could the effect known as gravity, in fact be the observation of an object moving at an accelerated rate into a Spacetime where time is slower?

It’s actually like placing a bowling ball on a mattress that has a couple baseballs on it already. The mass of the heavy bowling ball pushes down the mattress causing the baseballs to slide down towards the bowling ball. Gravity is the curvature/distortion of Spacetime produced by mass, more evident when the mass is very heavy. Light from distant stars and galaxies appears to be bent by massive objects like the sun but it’s really the curvature of spacetime around the sun that makes it appear that way.

"The mass of the heavy bowling ball pushes down the mattress causing the baseballs to slide down towards the bowling ball. "

Next time do not buy used mattress and it will not sag.

Oops, looks like it’s time for my tinfoil hat

What Mr. Pebbles means to say is "one of the theories of gravity is", but he is trying to look like he makes less mistakes than he really does today. Ego thing.

speedbump6,

Move ahead to 21st century...

https://getlambs.com/products/emf-proof-beanie?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-bGM4Zu86gIVja_ICh3SKwmtEAQYASABEgKeo_D_BwE

"... he is trying to look like he makes less mistakes than he really does today."

It does seem like a bad week for him. We all have them. Well, faster you run, more likely you will trip. (old caveman's proverb).

It may be time to wait until he gets up. It is not nice to pound on the weaker one.

It’s not a theory, Mr. Smarty Pants 👖Oops, I forget you were only a pseudo scientist. This will probably trigger another long boring rant about nothing. 

The practice of gravity is that the higher you try to climb, the more painful the impact after the fall.

Wise man recognizes when to stop climbing. (old faller's proverb)

Glubson tries hard to be relevant. Tough break, glubson. 😢

This might be the first cable thread that ends up being about gravity lols.  So we go from talking about something nobody knows into something that nobody really knows.

I hate to judge before all the facts are in but it appears the latest pseudo science organ grinder found himself a monkey. 

geoffkait,

"Glubson tries hard to be relevant. "

Funny, I thought the same about you.

Be careful, my warnings to you end up being correct after a while.

Idle threats, little person. 

Glupson, actually ate a certain point, you reach terminal velocity, after which it’s a moot point. I’m not sure how much pain there actually is after the resultant impact, but it’s not one you’ll repeat.

I didn't say it would be flat. You asked what I wanted I told you. I can read the results and decide. 

That is I will supply all the measurement
you want, can you tell me which is a better product?

^^^ How do you decide?  Each cable will dip and bump at different freq.  My point is you can't tell by just looking at the frequency response.  And as I said, there is phase shift too.  

speedbump6,

"I’m not sure how much pain there actually is after the resultant impact..."

Just do not tell me it cannot be measured. What the heck is this whole thread for then?

geoffkait,

"Idle threats, little person."

"Warning" is not same as "threat". There are such thing as "friendly warnings".

Aside from that, I have not been called "little" since I was a newborn.

If you can't do it just say so. I know how to read the graph. I don't need arguments, I don't need you to tell me what I'll be looking for I know what to look for. 

If you can't do it just say so. I know how to read the graph. I don't need arguments, I don't need you to tell me what I'll be looking for I know what to look for.

It's simple to get the frequency response plot.  Maybe you can enlighten us with how you interpret graph?  How do you decide which dip and bump at different freq. will affect the sound?  The short answer is you can't.  It's more complicated than that.  

If it's  simple then get 2 different  sets of cables and do it. It's all I really need but if you want more then get me the Inductance vs frequency,  AC resistance vs frequency, Capacitance vs frequency , Resistance vs guage or are you going to come up with more reasons  why I don't  need those? All you said was ask and you would provide. Pony up. 

^^^Well we've made some progress.  Initially it's just the freq. plot, now you realize it's more than that so you're asking for Inductance, AC resistance and capacitance.  You also probably realize by now these are not flat either.

But I can make it simple for you.  Just educate us how you will interpret all the bumps and dips of inductance,cap, res plots.  How do you determine which is more importance when comparing diff. cables?

I'll make it simple for you. You're putting the cart before the horse. You said ask for measurements. I asked. Provide them and I'll explain why I picked the cable I will choose when I get them. It's becoming obvious for anyone reading this you have no intention of providing anything. Get the 20hz to 20khz sweep of two sets of cables of the same guage and connections. They can be different metals and insulation. 

You also probably realize by now these are not flat either.

Uh, I hope the inductance vs frequency is ruler flat. If not we can toss that cable first. 

Don't worry about what I do with the measurements that's my part, yours is simply providing them. 

I don't think you even know what I'm asking for most of the measurements should be fairly flat except for the frequency sweep. For instance the AC Resistance vs Guage should be flat in the audible range and not rise until 50 or 60 khz. 

Uh, I hope the inductance vs frequency is ruler flat

You realize that even the inductance vs. freq. of an actual inductor is not flat, don't you?  Now being a cable with distributive characteristic, I am not sure how it will be flat.  Same for capacitance and resistance.  They won't be flat.

I guess unless you live in a paradise, none of these will be flat.  Again, if you can enlighten us with how you will interpret these variable and determine which is the better cable.  

No measurements? ? 

I counted 5 pages in the search where @geoffkait brought up gravity Andy2 so that is that 100-150 posts, and there are probably many many more, I just got bored. Not sure why he insists that gravity is the warping of space is anything but a theory when there are no doubt 100's of high quality science sites that quite clearly say it is a theory and many, oh Nasa for one, list 10's of other theories and what the current thought is on their potential validity. Dogma?  Ego not allowing to admit being wrong? First page on Google Search says so?

Inductance should be pretty flat. I don't think you know what you're talking about andy2, In a short run speaker cable it might vary by .17nH per ft. from 20hz to 20khz. 

I don't think you know what you're talking about

Look like you are talking about yourself.  But anyway, you just got a good education from me.  Now you understand your own flaw.  It's more complicated than you can handle and I taught you a good lesson.  

Tell us how will interpret the plots.  Otherwise, we will be laughing at your stupidity.  

Air core inductor? ... going to be very flat out to fairly high frequencies. Stable plastic and air dielectric capacitor? Yup, that is going to be fairly flat as well out to higher frequencies. Of course, I have actually measured these things so I am not guessing, and I understand the properties of the materials enough to ballpark how they work.

Distributed impedance? .... we are no where near where transmission line effects are a concern, and given the small values of the cable to the speaker/amp, a single bulk value of RLC is sufficient, but it is not like you couldn’t divide it into 2, 4, or 8 and do a simple piece-wise calculation or determination that was well beyond audible detection.

You may be trying to make djones51 look like he doesn’t know his stuff, and maybe he doesn't, but this is a public forum, and there are people who do, and you are not in that camp.

andy2 OP1,188 posts07-07-2020 9:40pm

Uh, I hope the inductance vs frequency is ruler flat

You realize that even the inductance vs. freq. of an actual inductor is not flat, don’t you? Now being a cable with distributive characteristic, I am not sure how it will be flat. Same for capacitance and resistance. They won’t be flat.

Not sure why he insists that gravity is the warping of space is anything but a theory

If you're not sure you must not be a very good reader because he already said why. When a guy with 23k irrelevant posts bothers to actually answer straight up you should give credit where credits due.

This "anything but a theory" actually solved a problem in astronomy, where the orbit of Mercury was known to be off by some infinitesimally tiny amount. This "anything but a theory" came along and showed that Mercury was close enough to the Sun for its gravitational effect on space and time to perfectly account for the discrepancy in the orbit of the planet. I was going to insert a link here but its way past time you started doing your own work and not just scamming off of those who actually know stuff. (Was thinking of another word but stuff is more your reading level.) 

Gravitational lenses offer another demonstration of this "anything but a theory". Galaxies are very massive, and so this "anything but a theory" predicts they curve space and time around them. If this really is the case then the light from other much more distant galaxies will be bent around them. Sure enough, there are many such examples of distant galaxies that appear in the wrong location, or sometimes even appear as double images, because of the way the light from them is bent as it travels near the galaxy in between. 

This one I will provide a link, since its a funny smiley face, much like the one on my face right now, as I contemplate just how utterly, thoroughly outclassed you are here. And always. And not just by me. https://www.thoughtco.com/introduction-to-gravitational-lensing-4153504
Move along. Please.

I think you put yourself in a bind. (To the djones or robert or atavid ...)

Here  these two positions you have to take:

1. Plots are flat.
If the plots are flat, then by definition you can’t tell the difference among the cables because they are all flat. Then your conclusion has to be all cables sound the same because they all measure the same - FLAT.
But of course cables don’t sound the same so this a flaw position.

2. Plots are not flat:
Then you why don’t you enlighten us how you would interpret these plots - with all the dips and bumps at different frequencies. Here is the second FLAW because nobody knows how, and certainly you don’t know either.

That’s the point but some people are too thick in the head to understand.

3. You don’t understand what these plots illustrate nor the concept of bulk LRC.

Personally I have not put myself into a bind since I have no made any challenges, and have only voiced basic support for the concept in the video that using cables for "tone controls" is rather silly ... $1000’s to replace pennies of components, maybe a few dollars in low volume ... makes total sense to me.

@geoffkait
Some time ago I watched a compelling documentary where after showing the differences in time from outer space, and different points on Earth.
Then the discussion went into gravitational time dilation.

Gravity slows the passage of time similar to how the passage of time is changed under special relativity, general relativity predicts that massive objects will also dilate time. The more massive the object, the more noticeable the effect.

The newer idea is that by moving through space towards a significantly large mass, that time slows approaching the large mass, I don’t know the mathematical formula, but they showed it in the documentary. The way I understood it, it was as if falling from where time moved more rapidly to where time slowed down.

 You don’t understand what these plots illustrate nor the concept of bulk LRC

Nice deflection from your own flaw and contradiction.  So what is it?  Are these plots flat or not? 

Again, enlighten us how you interpret the plots.  You don't think you have a clue what you're talking about other than copy the wikipage.  

I never deflected from any position I took nor did I make any contradictions. The inductance and capacitance of speaker cables will be very consistent over frequency. That you don’t understand what this means is not my problem.


As far as I can tell, djones51 called your bluff w.r.t. the measurements for two cables and you skating like Disney on Ice trying to avoid the fact you don’t have any and probably can’t even get them or even know how.

People are free to see my recent posts on differential input amplifiers for phono stages, setting azimuth on phono stages, practical concepts w.r.t. class-D amplifiers and phase shift, linear phase/all-pass filters, the impact of input resistance and inductance on AC power line rejection of amplifier power supplies, etc.  With the exception of Mr. Pebbles who insults anyone who knows more than him, it is pretty obvious which one of us has a greater understanding of the electronics aspects of audio.

The inductance and capacitance of speaker cables will be very consistent over frequency

Why don't you just for once in a life time enlighten us how you would interpret these plots?  The reality is you have no clue.

D2, all the above, lol. And a couple of guys think it’s about exposing each other somehow. 

Lols about flat inductance and flat resistance. Watch this vid at 1:55 mark.

It’s all over the place after 10KHz.  This vid from a guy who don't believe in cable lols.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6evV01Z-mWY

"Gravity slows the passage of time similar to how the passage of time is changed under special relativity..."

To put it in realistico-philosophical perspective, it all becomes acutely irrelevant and unimportant when you discover your toilet has backed up.

At that moment the following statement from the above post applies absolutely and in real time...

"The more massive the object, the more noticeable the effect."

May I suggest you all start reading the "Audio Science Review" site?
You will find that measurements are everything, nothing else matters.

You will find that listening is everything, nothing else matters.

Fixed.  

Is that the same Gene as Gene the Dancing Machine? 🕺🏻

rja
May I suggest you all start reading the "Audio Science Review" site?
You will find that measurements are everything, nothing else matters.

>>>>Thanks for the warning! ⚠️ 

To a distant observer 👀 clocks ⏰ near a black hole would appear to tick more slowly than clocks ⏰ further away from the black hole. Due to this effect, known as gravitational time dilation, an object falling into a black hole appears to slow as it approaches the event horizon, taking an infinite time to reach it. 

This is not theoretical, gentle readers. Light cannot escape from a black hole, not because of the extreme gravity of the black hole, light has no mass, but because spacetime is so curved/contorted in proximity to the black hole the path light takes bends back on itself. The volume of space where spacetime is distorted extends waaay beyond the actual black hole, out to the event horizon and beyond, the black hole itself is tiny, perhaps the size of a grapefruit for a small black hole.

The premise of this thread is the OP said he could produce measurements and challenged anyone to pick a best cable.

For example, if I have a set of cable, and a set of measurement for each
individual cable, can you tell me which is the best cable based on measurement
alone? I will supply all the measurement you want.

He's asked for measurements then moves the goal posts wanting to know how anyone could possibly interpret the measurements without ever producing any. 

How do you decide? Each cable will dip and bump at different freq. My point is you can't tell by just looking at the frequency response.  

They way I decide has nothing to do with your original question. My point is I can tell just by looking at the frequency response of the speaker as long as the measurements are taken in the same way. Use the same system and room switch  the speaker cables take measurements from the same position. How will I decide? I'll just pick one since they will basically be the same unless one of the cables is fence wire. The speaker and room will swamp any deviations of a cable and after all that's what you listen to not cables. 

Huh? By that logic nothing else matters, not the capacitors, the resistors, the fuses.... you can make the amplifier and preamp from junk parts and use clothes hangers for the cables. 

Our working theory of gravity is Einstein's theory of general relativity. It's held up pretty good so far. But we still haven't unified gravity with QM, either our working theory is right and we haven't figured it out or their could be another theory or a tweak of Einstein's theory. I believe the point is it isn't settled science.