For example, if I have a set of cable, and a set of measurement for each
individual cable, can you tell me which is the best cable based on measurement
alone? I will supply all the measurement you want.
After all, that is what you’re after right? Objective result and not subjective You give some measurements and I decide which is best? Go ahead give me some measurements on two different cables and I'll pick the best. Not really an objective test, it's not really a test at all but sure, what do I win? |
The 1995 test doesn't look like it's telling me anything. What's the relationship between these measurements and the sound that comes out of the speaker? Wouldn't it have been better to test that instead of between the terminals. Different metals and guage etc.. will measure different that's no revelation. |
, which measurement parameters are you inquiring? Just a 20hz to 20khz sweep from your speakers. Use two different speaker cables in the same system and room. I can tell from that which gives the flattest response which will be the best cable. What do I win? |
I didn't say it would be flat. You asked what I wanted I told you. I can read the results and decide. That is I will supply all the measurement
you want, can you tell me which is a better product? |
I'll make it simple for you. You're putting the cart before the horse. You said ask for measurements. I asked. Provide them and I'll explain why I picked the cable I will choose when I get them. It's becoming obvious for anyone reading this you have no intention of providing anything. Get the 20hz to 20khz sweep of two sets of cables of the same guage and connections. They can be different metals and insulation. You also probably realize by now these are not flat either. Uh, I hope the inductance vs frequency is ruler flat. If not we can toss that cable first. Don't worry about what I do with the measurements that's my part, yours is simply providing them. |
If it's simple then get 2 different sets of cables and do it. It's all I really need but if you want more then get me the Inductance vs frequency, AC resistance vs frequency, Capacitance vs frequency , Resistance vs guage or are you going to come up with more reasons why I don't need those? All you said was ask and you would provide. Pony up. |
Inductance should be pretty flat. I don't think you know what you're talking about andy2, In a short run speaker cable it might vary by .17nH per ft. from 20hz to 20khz.
|
|
If you can't do it just say so. I know how to read the graph. I don't need arguments, I don't need you to tell me what I'll be looking for I know what to look for. |
I don't think you even know what I'm asking for most of the measurements should be fairly flat except for the frequency sweep. For instance the AC Resistance vs Guage should be flat in the audible range and not rise until 50 or 60 khz. |
Maybe the Roman Space telescope will answer some of these questions on dark matter and energy. |
Yes, I know. That's another observation that shows Einstein was right. I'm not following are you saying Einstein can never be proven wrong? Newton's laws work at small distances so he's right but not at large distances so he's also wrong. Might be Einstein turns out the same way I have no idea, I'm not smart enough to figure it all out. |
Well not really I should have said I assume the 12awg would look better it might not if I don’t know which plot is which I couldn't really say. |
By that logic nothing else matters, not the capacitors, the resistors, the fuses.... you can make the amplifier and preamp from junk parts and use clothes hangers for the cables. That's correct if the cables we are measuring is clothes hangers connected to junk and the cables are the only thing changed. Then the basic 12awg copper cable will show a better response than the clothes hanger by enough variations to tell . We're not testing a system but cables. |
I said Einstein's theory has held so far, doesn't mean it always will, doesn't mean this is settled science. |
How about carbon wires? Will silver sound better than copper? I have no idea I haven't been given any measurements to look at so far by the OP. |
The premise of this thread is the OP said he could produce measurements and challenged anyone to pick a best cable. For example, if I have a set of cable, and a set of measurement for each
individual cable, can you tell me which is the best cable based on measurement
alone? I will supply all the measurement you want. He's asked for measurements then moves the goal posts wanting to know how anyone could possibly interpret the measurements without ever producing any. How do you decide? Each cable will dip and bump at different freq. My point is you can't tell by just looking at the frequency response. They way I decide has nothing to do with your original question. My point is I can tell just by looking at the frequency response of the speaker as long as the measurements are taken in the same way. Use the same system and room switch the speaker cables take measurements from the same position. How will I decide? I'll just pick one since they will basically be the same unless one of the cables is fence wire. The speaker and room will swamp any deviations of a cable and after all that's what you listen to not cables. |
Will thin wires sound better than thick wires? Doesn't matter the OP never asked about how it would sound just which one measured better. |
Our working theory of gravity is Einstein's theory of general relativity. It's held up pretty good so far. But we still haven't unified gravity with QM, either our working theory is right and we haven't figured it out or their could be another theory or a tweak of Einstein's theory. I believe the point is it isn't settled science. |
You realize that even the inductance vs. freq. of an actual inductor is not flat, don’t you? Now being a cable with distributive characteristic, I am not sure how it will be flat. Same for capacitance and resistance. They won’t be flat. Measuring the LCR of a speaker cable which is all I’m asking, it should be flat in the audible range. Figure 6 demonstrates a speaker cable with its electrical properties shown as symbols with no value. In an actual model we would insert the values that we measure on our cable under test into all of the symbols. Using math (or computer modelling software) we can determine if the cable is flat in its response. We will demonstrate this by filling in the actual L, C and R values from a 10 foot, 16AWG stranded copper twisted pair cable that could be used for speaker level signals. The following table shows the values as a total measurement and as a per foot measurement. Now we arrive at the lumped element model shown in Figure 7. When we calculate the cutoff frequency of this filter (the frequency at which the filter begins to attenuate the input signal, we find that it is well over 1MHz. This means that for audio signals, this cable is not decreasing the signal from the input to the output.
https://sites.google.com/view/pine-tree-audio/about/lcr-testingWhen I asked for FR taken in room it would show the speakers and room swamp any cable differences. The peaks and dips would probably vary by no more than .1db at different points showing how little the cable matters to what you hear. |
Where's the measurements? You said you would provide them, how about it, you can show everyone I have no clue. |
I will supply all the measurement you want . |
I am no expert by a long shot but I can look at 2 different plots and see the difference. No specific cable was mentioned to compare so I just picked speaker cables since it’s easier to use something like REW to take measurements of in room speaker response. After all that’s what we hear speaker and roon interaction. If there is a significant difference it would be readily apparent.
That appears to not be happening so I’ll switch to USB cables. I want the THD+N and Jitter plots from any DAC you choose switching only the USB cable. If possible do a IMD test and Tone input/ sample rate . Use any two cables you want. You want an explanation of how I will use these before you show the measurements. The cable that shows the lowest distortion on Tone input and THD+N or SINAD and Jitter is the better cable. |
I assume no measurements are forthcoming? |
That is I will supply all the measurement
you want, can you tell me which is a better product? If there is a difference in distortion and the only thing changed is a cable then the cable contributed to the distortion. |
Ok. No measurements. I never claimed to be an engineer. You didn't stipulate in the original post your offer was only to EE's. |
I’m assuming English is your second language so I’m being patient. Noise can leach in through poor connections, connectors, ground problems, wired wrong, the USB hub but the wires themselves just carry the noise. I am assuming you’re going to use good quality cables with sturdy connections. I also assume one cable will be cheap $15 the other expensive >$250. Supposedly you’re going to provide some measurements on these two cables. I’m not going to know which is the cheap cable and which the expensive. From these measurements I’m suppose to try and pick the expensive from the cheap. Is there something I’m missing? |
In the first place I never said USB cables create noise. RF noise can leach in through connectors. Are you ever going to offer any measurements? That is I will supply all the measurement
you want, can you tell me which is a better product? |
|
It's safe to assume little andy2 can't produce any measurements to back up his claim. Probably because all the measurements he's scoured the internet looking at show no difference between cheap cables and expensive. Keep trying little andy2 you might find some. |
in the Internets ??? are you in the Internets ??? |
The problem with the citation of Einstein is Einstein didn't say it. |
|
There's a guy here who thinks he can take measurements but he only knows one end to probe. |
Andy2 is blabbering about amps and feedback now. Where's the cable measurements? Who said anything about sound you wanted to know the best cable, obviously the cable that doesn't introduce capacitance, inductance and is shielded against EMI is the best.
|
|
Pigs are very intelligent animals. I grew up on a farm raising pigs so you're not really insulting me. |
thyname , a serious question have you ever questioned any of these audiophile components like USB reclockers, audiophile ethernet switches, 4 and 5 figure cables ? Anything? |
Noname don't be catty. Let's see that smile 😊 |
Wire changing radio waves into electrical energy sounds like an antenna to me. Didn't they have any insulation on the wire?
|
I didn't watch the video. When I saw who it was I turned it off. I figured it would be something goofy. |
I watched the video, didn't tell me anything new but he didn't seem as annoying as I remember from other videos. Another guy that I find annoying is the PS Audio guy. Not saying they aren't smarter than me or don't know their stuff just don't care for their YouTube shows. |
I thought andy2 was considerably smarter than me but for one type I’ve heard of toroidal isolation transformers. Maybe he’s trolling like noname does. |
I can't imagine anyone dumb enough to buy a power conditioner with a "slim and tiny" power cable. Ones I've seen have a cable thick as your thumb. I had one the power cord was not removable. Company be pretty stupid to sell power conditioners with an under specification power cord. |
|
|
