3D lifelike sound and impeccable measurements - mutually exclusive???

By your answer you are saying that you believe they are exclusive and you pick one or the other. 

No, not me. I already know measurements are irrelevant. It is nothing to do with me. It is nothing to do with being mutually exclusive. That is your game, not mine. What I said is not some word game. You are the one asking about "impeccable measurements" not me. I don't even know what "impeccable measurements" would be. 

Is 200 watts impeccable? What about 2? Is -85dB S/N impeccable? Or do we need to be -110dB? You throw "impeccable measurements" out there as if it's something anyone knows. Trust me, know one does! My guess is you yourself don't even know what your own "impeccable measurements" are. 

Point I am trying to make, what I am really saying, stop asking us and think it through for yourself. My questions are meant for you to answer for yourself:

Do you want what sounds good? Or what measures good?

No one can answer these questions but you. 

3D lifelike sound and impeccable measurements

as jond said... 

the first is the objective for enjoying our music ... the second is purely incidental and i couldn’t care less

Your experience’s are a point in time. And you are listening for the experience right?
Measurements are useful for narrowing down options and your preference then is the litmus test in my opinion 

+1 jond

I can't imagine sitting listening to a great immersive 3D sounding system and then worrying about whether it measures well or not.

I have not found measurements useful in regard to how well a piece of equipment will reproduce music in my system. What I mean by that is it will not tell me how wide or deep the soundstage will be, how much definition I’ll get with individual instruments within that soundstage or even how realistic human voices & instruments will be reproduced. That stated, they are not absolutely useless. Some measurements can give me an idea of what equipment should mate up well. Examples of that are; phono preamp gain to find a phono preamp that mates up well with low output MC’s / Speaker sensitivity & ohm rating to help determine what amp(s) are required to power them well.

All the best

"Nothing is ever perfect."

Except millercarbon's system...

https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367

The thing with me, I’ll be fiddling with the tone controls. Flat measuring speakers are just that. LOL Who measured what? The measure of good sound is "HOW does it sound to YOU"? I don’t count on your preference, you shouldn’t count in mine...

For speakers I always look at materials, I love beautiful things, to a point...where’s the beef? 20k speakers you better have something besides 2 or 3 drivers in a box no mater what it’s made out of.
Everything else is window dressing.. Lookin cool is cool, but it ain’t 20k cool, 1/2 the cost in materials and options on finish.. Maybe..

You know why a 50k amps cost 50k? Because somebody paid that for it..
Wasn’t worth a nickel until someone paid that for it..

Flat measurements.. that went out the door as soon as you put ANY speaker in a room...AY? ANY SPEAKER and ANY ROOM.. They are all different..

I think a speaker CAN measure well and sound good, some more so than others.. I’m also a believer there is no substitution for the NUMBER of drivers. MORE IS BETTER... I don’t care what you own.. MORE IS BETTER...
No I don’t care if you haven’t learned that yet.. Just like BASS columns.. when your tired of the good sound you’ll try bass columns.. THEN you’ll finally hear what I like.. GREAT sound.. is there better? NO!

DB Servo array with NARROW MB columns and NARROW baffle monitors... I’m closer than I’ve ever been..
How do they measure? When the room is close to finished, I’m gonna start charging admission... :-)

I bet you I made 25 different horn shapes too.. 25 years of that crazy venture.. Sure is something about the RIGHT horn.. and about 2-4 watts playing LOUD and clear and just perfect... Billie Holiday Perfect is in the EARS of the beholder, ay OP?

Tap Tap.. Lambada, Amiga!

Regards

Millercarbon
essentially you answered my question in your own way. Yes it’s a “can you have both” question - great measurements and organic involving sound or are they really mutually exclusive. By your answer you are saying that you believe they are exclusive and you pick one or the other. Understood. 

I don't understand the question. Do you want what sounds good? Or what measures good? Don't say both. Life is full of choices. Nobody gets everything they want. Nothing is ever perfect. So your choice. Which one do you want? 

I’m currently running an integrated (croft Phono Integrated with Harbeth) that’s firmly in the colorful and measurements be damned camp and combo sounds fantastic esp for the price but I’m interested in moving to the other camp If I can find an integrated or separates that fill both bills. 

On the colorful and measurements be damned, Conrad Johnson Premiere amps.

On the neutral but expansive and immersive: Luxman, Ayre, D'Agostino

Absolutely not;


These are some of the specifications for the ARC LS 28 and it delivers what you specified.




FREQUENCY RESPONSE

+0-3dB, 0.4Hz to 200kHz at rated output (Balanced, 200k ohms load)

THD+NOISE

Less than .007% at 2V RMS BAL output.

NOISE

Less than -100dBv at max volume (103).

DYNAMIC RANGE

122dB (AES17).

CROSSTALK

-105dB