Stunned by a cable upgrade

Well, after reading that, I'm starting to think I'm crazy. My experience with the AP's is very different from yours. Its got me thinking though, about those differences. Nice job on the shootout. Easy readin for something so long.

Thanks. I tend to get wordy ( noooo ???) but try to keep it un der stand able : )

From the response that i've gotten from a few others that had similar results, AP's seem to do BAD things to speakers that are point sources. When trying to run a "simple" system with full range drivers (Lowther's, Walsh's, etc..) and NO crossover networks to come between the driver / amplifier interface is when you'll run into BIG problems with AP's. As one might expect, these types of systems can be VERY revealing due to the "less is more" type of thing. Corey Kapteyn from Audio Advisor even said to me "your speakers are EXTREMELY sensitive to what is upstream of them. ANYTHING that is not up to snuff will be revealed". As such, he told me that the Oval 9's sounded BAD out of the box but would get better with time. Given the fact that they Oval 9's that i ran were "demo's" and that i also put over 500+ hours on them rules out the "break in" theory. Evidently, the guy that had them before me didn't like them either, as he returned them also.

Everyone that i know of that has used these cables in "full range" systems have complained of the same results that i had with them. Like several of the others that had emailed me, we had all tried dozens of various speaker cables before. The Oval 9's were the ONLY cables that thinned out and hardened the systems to this extreme. Go figure.

For the record, i also tried the Oval 9's in my HT system. The speakers are large floorstanders with two woofers, a mid-woofer, soft dome mid and a soft dome tweeter. They also have VERY "parts-laden" crossover with impedance compensation networks and special attention to reflections and diffraction caused by the baffle and grilles, etc... I obtained the same results there, i.e. complete thinning of the bottom end and lower midrange along with a splashy treble.

As mentioned, these systems use completely different amps, cables, preamps, sources, etc... and DO sound different. Getting the same results from two different systems kind of confirmed it for me. When i asked my Brother if we could put them into his system to see what they did there, his response was "put them in MY system ??? Put them in the GARBAGE CAN !!!"

Believe me, i DID want to like them. I only ordered them after reading their "technical papers" and finding out that Von Schwiekert was going to use them to internally wire his new speakers. You can see by the date of my "shoot out" and considering that i had them for just slightly over a month that it was just shortly after they first came out. While it is things like this that confuse both of us, i know what i heard and experienced and have received confirmation from others with identical experiences.

Then again, i know several others that have the 9's or Oval 12's and LOVE them. They all say "they are sooooo warm sounding". I almost wonder if i didn't get a "funky" set or something ??? Maybe they don't have the greatest quality control ???

Something else that makes me wonder about them though is that, even though Michael Fremer did "rave" about them in one of his recent columns, he only gave them a paragraph or so. In comparison, the other speaker cable that he was reviewing got WAY more coverage with far more in-depth writing and details. Almost like he HAD to say something nice but didn't want to say TOO much about them.

If it seems like i've gone "back and forth" on this one a little bit, it is because i AM torn on this one. I just can't figure out how something that can be SOOOOO good did SOOOO poorly here and in a couple of different systems. Sean
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Sean said it best, if it sounds good don't change it and muck it up trying to keep up with the latest and greatest.

Great article Sean! I have only had two cables in my system. The AP 9s and the DH Labs Silversonic T-14s they replaced. I must admit when I had a chance to sit down and listen to my setup again on saturday, it didn't have the same magic as thursday night. Could it be the amount of people watching basketball and hockey on a saturday afternoon mucking up my apartment's electrical circuits? That being said, I still preferred the Oval 9s to the T-14s in almost all areas.

I appreciate your consideration for my positive experience in warning me not to read your review. But hey, we "philes" are always looking for that next step up aren't we? For now, I'll just enjoy what I have. I'll be getting the BC DAC 1.1 soon and that should change the character of the sound. I'm also considering other speakers just so I'll have a second flavor and can jump back and forth according to my tastes at that moment.

Goertz MI-2's, huh? :)

I wouldn't do it that way...

Using your cables to effect a "complementary coloration is rarely a completely succesful way to go. The problem is simple, you are attempting to employ some sort of filter, and a filter can only remove information, never add. So, while you can get the overall sound to be more pleasant, and perhaps easier to listen to, it is rare that this method results in a truly "trancendental" system.

Much better is to work through your system and eliminate components, parts, and gear that is (in effect) causing the problem to begin with. Admittedly, this can be a daunting task, since everything *is* hooked together, and it is very difficult to *know* in advance what is actually "correct" and what is "warped."

IF the cable that was replaced, was replaced by an essentially "transparent" cable, *then* by all means the change is warrented and merited. But, IF this particular brand of cable is known to "smooth" out "bright" systems, then I would urge caution, and tell you all to beware.

My philosophy is to work to find the most transparent, and clean elements for my system, especially the cables, and then IF color is needed, to apply that judiciously and with purpose and control. This, rather than apply multiple colorations in an attempt to arrive back in the "center."
I've found that by striving for clean and transparent first that the ultimate results are far more satisfying and apparent.

This stands for everything, especially amps and speakers. I've never found it possible to make an average speaker or average amp sound any better than average - finding a cable that makes it listenable, is doing only that, making it listenable. Which, is not *all* bad, since listenable is better than not. However, if your system is really "tuned-in" and is really clean and clear, you'll be able to instantly hear the effects of things like a single length of new cable without a moment's hesitation, whereas in a system with "complementary colorations" you'll likely hear a change, but be hard pressed to clearly identify precisely what and where it is coming from or going to.

Of course, getting a system together like the one I suggest takes work and testing, and a bit of effort too...

_-_-bear (email me for my URL)