Brinkmann vs TW Acustic

Raul, I take your point.
Syntax, Another story. I have a neighbor with a different brand of megabuck belt-drive turntable. I will not mention it, because I do think it is a very good sounding high quality product. I was in his listening room when he first tested it with his newly purchased Timeline. As we watched the red dot move steadily across the curtain behind his turntable, he leaped to his feet to adjust the speed controller. This only momentarily worked to halt the inexorable progress of the red dot. Two minutes later, he was on his feet again, and then again and again. (It would have been funny, if the turntable cost $100.) As I could hear no obvious problem due to speed aberration, I suggested that he should just ignore the Timeline so we could listen to music. However, the red dot is very distracting. A week or two later, he reported to me that the maker of his turntable tested the motor controller that is sold along with the table and reported it to be "defective". He also reported that the problem was now "fixed". The story does not end there, needless to say. "Fixed" is a relative term. The Timeline has created some havoc at the elite level among those suffering from audiophilia nervosa. Still, it does tell us "something". I would posit that if a turntable is speed stable enough to look good with the KAB strobe (the most accurate of the strobes because of its battery power), while the stylus is down on the LP, then it is probably "good enough".

So far as I know, R2R machines have their issues with wow and flutter, too. As most know, the famous jazz album, Kind of Blue, with the Miles Davis Quintet, has survived in its popularity for many decades despite the fact that it was mastered from an off-speed tape recording. As a devotee, I am so used to the pitch and tempo of the original that I find the recent release of the corrected speed version to be not nearly as involving. I daresay the original owes some of its staying power to the "dark" feel of the music, imparted by the speed inaccuracy of a tape recorder.

Syntax, I hope it is not a case of because you see it so you hear it! Your hearing must be incredible that you can hear with more precision than Kab strobe. I don't know if that is a gift or a curse. I assume that before Timeline came, you have to always adjust speed by ears then as no strobe would be good enough for you. I shall yield to your hearing ability.

Wait but you say that "it was new to you as well" after you receive Timeline that some turntables cannot hold accurate speed! Is that means that you actually did not know or could not hear that before but suddenly Timeline give you ability to hear better?
I understand your BMW story now, I better talk to Sutherland because I have been cheated.

I agree with Syntax that the way to perceive speed instabilities is to hear for low level sounds and ambience. Speed stable tables have better air, ambience, soundstage depth, clarity, dynamics and more defined bass. Atmasphere has said similar things.

Andrew

I had an interesting experience years ago - when calibrating a Townsend power supply ( checking internal voltages, bias etc ) the sound opened up considerably. Smoother, more natural, much larger sound stage. There was no measurable change in speed. The improved sound was purely down to running the power supply at the correct voltages internally - changes of about 0.1-0.3 of a volt.
The change in sound was like going from an Audio Technica $500 MC to a Koetsu Black - it was not subtle.

Syntax, you did not answer my question. I will ask it one last time. Are you saying that SME supplies more accurate turntables to professional musicians and conductors (and reviewers) than they do to the general public? Like you implied with your story about BMW giving testers faster cars?

I agree with you that turntable speed should be checked with the stylus in a rotating grove (with VTF in your terms). Are you aware that the KAB strobe allows for this, at least for about an inch at the outside of the LP? The KAB may not be as accurate as the Timeline, but it does allow for one to use his own record clamp, record weight, neither, and different thickness LPs while providing the same result. According to a post above, the Timeline does not offer this flexibility.

BTW, I watched Steve at SOS test a Brinkmann Bardo turntable with his Timeline. You are again mistaken. It passed the test (by quick visual inspection with no markings) only over a 5-10 second period when the red dot fell on a piece of paper hand held about 12" from the Timeline. When the paper held in place for the test was removed, the DIRECT DRIVE Bardo failed the test after a few seconds because the red dot was suddenly hitting the wall which was now about four feet away. The dot drifted.

Steve and I did the same test on my turntable which at the time was a BELT DRIVE design and it did better than the DD Bardo, but it was still not perfect. My table had no speed adjustment which was one reason I sold it for a table which is adjustable. My new BD table does now hold speed according to the KAB while an LP is playing at both 33 and 45 RPM. Perhaps it would fail the Timeline. I have not tried it. I do think the timeline is heavier than my record clamp, so that might effect results. Also I don't know which record thickness I should use for the Timeline test.

I don't understand your point about an iPod. Of course people enjoy the device with earbuds and get emotional satisfaction. That is not our subject here. Our subject here is speed accuracy and the ability of orchestra conductors (or BMW M5 drivers) getting accurate performance numbers. Great conductors have some of the best ears around. And they can hear accurate pitch. I have seen them during rehearsals talk to individual musicians about this. If they say that their belt drive turntables have accurate pitch, I tend to believe them. They may also enjoy MP3 files in earbuds on an iPad, just like the kid down the street does. That does not meant the iPad is reproducing anything accurately.

I also agree with Syntax and Atmasphere that the way to hear speed instabilities is to listen for low level sounds and ambience. That is an excellent observation and quite audible.