Comparison of sonic qualities of some tonearms

Dear @lewm ​@mijostyn : Yes, several of us are talking of almost the same but the OP who posted:

" on the Helix, and the differences are dramatic, so I would imagine that for just about all tonearms..."

that comment it’s not even anecdotic, To be that way he needs to share first which of those 2 tonearms was the winner, which cartridges used for his comparisons, which LPs tracks were used for the test, at what SPLs he listened with all cartridges and which differences were the ones that he listened in each of those LPs tracks he used and the kind of alignment he used in the non LT tonearm.

The OP is asking for " something " that not even him did it not showed/shared here.

@drbond what’s up down there down your comparisons?

I think he needs to be serious about.

R.

Terry, Where did I say that you cannot hear a fraction of a degree of azimuth change? I only said I only aim for having the cartridge sit symmetrically in the groove. That condition is usually arrived at when azimuth is set for 90 degrees. If you do it by ear and end up with much less than a one degree difference from 90 degrees, more power to you. I wouldn’t bother because I don’t believe that any one setting would be best for all LPs. But I don’t doubt you can hear it or at least you think you can hear it, which is the same thing either way. What I no longer do is to use a test instrument (e.g., Fozgometer or much older Signet Cartridge Analyzer which I own) to set for equal crosstalk. That almost always leads to an azimuth setting that (1) sounds not so good, and (2) leads to long term damage to the stylus, which in turn results in even worse SQ. The Korf treatise on azimuth convinced me.

Korf on Azimuth

@mijostyn 

@jollytinker You noticed a difference between cartridge arm combinations., not tonearms.

Yes, if you *read* my comment you'll notice that I said exactly that. It's why I refer to Lewm's caveat. But the import of his many-times repeated comment, as I see it, is that at some point you have to move on and make a pragmatic decision based on incomplete knowledge. 

The MSL would have sounded better in the 4 Point and much the same as it sounded in the Saphir with perhaps better bas due to the Saphirs very high EF.

this is rather glib, don't you think? have you actually tried this, or are you just speculating? I highly doubt that it's true. What you're referring to is commonly known as a "tweak," as opposed to a difference in "design" and its effects. the difference I heard with the SAFIR vs the 4 point was the latter, but of course I had a limited amount of time to make the determination with a lot of money at stake. Such is life. I was listening carefully. 

Again, I offered this as a data point. IMHO, what makes these forums interesting and worthwhile is the concrete experience and comparison, not the dogma.

jollytinker, You wisely wrote, "at some point you have to move on and make a pragmatic decision based on incomplete knowledge."  Yes, that is what we all do all the time in selecting components for an audio system (or for that matter in almost all decision making).  Our knowledge is always incomplete.  The best one can hope for is to learn over time.

I upgraded the arm only on my Rega P5 from an RB700 to an RB880 keeping the same van den Hut MC One Special cartridge and everything else the same. The difference was immediately noticeable and incredible. Much more than when I upgraded the table to the one the RB880 comes standard on, the P8. I don't spend nearly the time or $$ of the other contributors here, but I will say I only play records on my stereo and enjoy improvements to the sound and try to make the most logical decisions. Tonearms in my mind are at the very beginning of the signal path, probably only less important than the cartridge (assuming you are considering the tonearm wire as part of the tonearm). 

For example - no connectors within the wiring from the cartridge to the input of the phono stage, which means no removable head shells. If you are that desiring of experimentation, get a multi-arm table. If the power is sufficient, use an integrated amp instead of separating out the preamp - once again eliminating a connection point. No adjusting VTA which is another point of movement within the arm which should be as rigid as possible. Are your really going to adjust based on the thickness of every record you play? Roy Gandy says not to worry about it because of the small effect the VTA adjustment has relative to the length of the tonearm. Set it up once and forget it.

If you are more of an equipment hobbyist, I can appreciate that, but I believe some of you have gone way past the point of obsession.