The Snob Appeal Premium


I have learned that speakers are a typical victim of "Designer Label Syndrome".  Supposedly an $8 billion a year market (hard to believe) speakers are fairly simple beasts with little substantive improvements over the last 50 years. Ever since Paul Klipsch ( a character in his own right) read the Bell Labs 1934 papers and revolutionized speaker technology there have been few similar revolutionary improvements to the speaker. So- if you are an enterprising manufacturer of speakers (which are relatively cheap to build) how do you extract more and more money from the consumer ?  Answer: Synthetic demand driven by cachet' !  Like a pair of Louis Vuitton sneakers @ $650 a pair vs. New Balance runners @ 60/pr. It's snobby bragging rights stuff I'm describing here- perceived vs. actual value in a product. 

Here's an anecdotal example: 

I recently set out to build a high end mid-fi system (ARC preamp, power amp, Dac 9) for a large room "main house" (not a listening room) system. The goal was big, full, rich sound in a room full of furniture, chow dogs, kids and untreatable other things like 20 foot ceilings, multiple openings such as a balcony to the upstairs bedrooms, etc. Basically an audiophile's nightmare. 

I auditioned a number of speakers- Perlistens supported by JL Fathom subs, B&W Signatures, Bryston Model Ts, Vienna Acoustics Mahlers and Bethovens. IMO all of these are somewhat similar towers (except the Perlistens). The price point was not as important as the sound- given the limitations of the application. 

In the shopping for new or used I found a number of odd prices. The most unusual finding was a brand new set of Model Ts here in Audiogon advertised for $4K with a 20 year factory warranty. The dealer had one slide around of his hand truck and it put white paint smears on a corner of the Boston Cherry cabinet. Hmmm- 4 grand vs. 12 grand for a small fixable cosmetic flaw? I bought them. They sound fantastic. Some elbow grease and a furniture marker pen made the flaw vanish. 

I asked the dealer (Paul Kraft in Easton PA- great guy BTW) why the Audiogon Blue Book for a Model T was so low. His answer was "snob appeal". Apparently there is a big bragging rights  premium paid for having the UFO looking B&W Signatures vs what the snobs call the Bryston Model Ts "Axioms in a fancy suit".  I later learned that there are some prominent reviewers who refuse to listen to A/B speaker comparisons behind a silk curtain unless they know what brand is being scrutinized. To me that means "payola". 

Do the Model Ts sound better to me than the Mahlers, Bethovens, B&Ws? No. But they don't sound worse either (in my application). Do the above sound $8,000-$14,000 better than the Brystons in the listening rooms of the dealers? IMO NO WAY. To be fair price/value does color my perception much like a bottle of $40 Rumbauer Zin tastes better to me than $200 Silver Oak expense account wine. 

I'm guessing this post will anger brand snobs and garner snarky comments because their taste in sound is different than mine. Although this missive is really about personal perceptions of value v. sound I found my education on pricing fascinating and I feel great about finding amazing value in the brand new Model T's that needed 30 minutes of TLC to be at home in my family room. 

Moral of the story: Try em before you buy em, and look for value. It's fun and rewarding with no buyers remorse. 

128x128Ag insider logo xs@2xyesiam_a_pirate

I have been reading through the Troels Gravesen kit speaker builder project pages.

Many of the people who have built those speakers also own very good "brand" models like B&W 802D and ATC SCM 40 speakers and are reporting that the $2500 kit speakers they have built sound much better.

Those sorts of speakers are hard to sell though.People turn their nose up at them because they do not have any brand snobbery appeal.

Same goes for Chinese Copy amplifiers of ultra high end European models like Dartzeel NHB 108 or FM 300A.They sound superb but most people do not want to know about them.

So many audiophiles are snobs and clearly not really in it primarily for sound quality.

 

@jtgofish

I’ve been singing the praise of DIY speakers designed by the likes of Troels and Jeff Bagby, and others for years!

It is not unusual for DIY speakers by leading DIY designers to end up sounding better than commercially purchased speakers of at least 5 times the price.

My Jeff Bagby designed Auricle’s (RAAL tweeters, SB Acoustic mids), sitting on a pair of Jeff Bagby’s woofer modules (not subwoofers), sound as good as any $10K speaker. I have about $2200 in them.

I am also familiar with quite a few Chinese ’clone’ amps, and I agree, the good ones sound very, very close to the quality of the originals. Especially the ones with the "Sunbuck" label on them. And no, they are not stealing intellectual property. They are using circuit diagrams that have been freely available online for years.

Put me down as a big fan of kit speakers as well. I wish more people would DIY their audio gear, in general, as this would become less of a consumer and more of a builder like environment. More people with hands on experience with parts leads to less marketing BS.

The commercial ratio of driver cost to sales price is at least 10:1 in most cases (Fritz and other small builders rare exceptions). This ratio gets worse if they make their own drivers.

Not saying that part cost is the determinant factor in sound quality but rather that a DIYer has significant incentive to achieve excellent results  which would otherwise be out of their reach.

Also, I have long ago given up the belief that $$$$ means quality or desirability for me. Sometimes more expensive is better but many times it is not. A true audiophile in my mind can tell the difference.

Audiophile snobs are those who list their entire system (with prices) whenever the opportunity presents itself in a thread. 

I was a professional high-end furniture maker for 20 years, and really want to tackle one of the better kits or "plan" speakers. Have watched the Bagby Youtube's and others. I am drooling at the higher quality drivers. My remaining stash of high grade hardwood boards is just sitting there. Used to have a small bandmill through I ran veneer grade walnut and cherry logs. Advancing age halted my furniture business, but I can certainly handle a speaker build. I am only interested in the most proven designs and am not prepared to run acoustic analyzers in a hit or miss manner to determine maximum fidelity as I have seen some builders do.

The Troels Gravesen Ekta 25 looks a great design for use with solid timber construction.Or solid timber over ply.Not a huge speaker but using very high quality Scanspeak drivers capable of beautiful tonality.Which is why Sonus Faber use them in some of their expensive models.

I am tempted to build some myself .Like you I have a stash of premium hardwood-Birdseye and curly jarrah and Tasmanian Blackwood.