Older subwoofers better than newer subwoofers!


I was considering buying a new subwoofer to replace my Bowers and Wilkins ASW2000, which is a substantial subwoofer with a 12 inch driver.

I spoke to somebody at Bowers and Wilkins and a dealer and there are issues with newer subs where they are tighter but no longer have the ability to fill the room with a fullness that the older subs have. The feedback they receive from new buyers is that the very lowest frequency experience has been diminished with the newer subwoofers because they’re too tight. So if you replace your older subwoofers in a home theater environment you may be disappointed.

So I think I’ll keep my older subwoofer. Sadly people have no appreciation for these vintage subwoofer experiences since most of the current gear offered is built with dsp stuff, smaller drivers and poorly powered Active subwoofers. Further, because of the shortcomings buyers are forced to buy two to ensure a good room coverage. Sometimes progress isn’t what it pretends to be.

jumia

@toro3 ,

Thanks for that! I have a Rythmic sub I bought used some months ago and while sounds good it just does not seem tight enough. With all the talk about how articulate the Rythmic subs are I have been diss appointed. I didn’t know about the damping adjustment. Sure enough I just checked after reading your comment and it was on low damping. Hoping this firms up the bass a bit. 👍

I had one of the first Velodyne F-1800 Mk. II monster subwoofers with servo-control a monster amp and 30+lb 18 inch driver.  Never-again for audio, theater doubtful.

You can buy whatever kind/quality sub you desire these days but the old 'boomers' are not as popular as newer subs seem (less blurry) more musical/tighter (if you want). There are still plenty of big ported subs for theater boom.

I believe subwoofer technology has increased far more in the last fifteen years than that of other audio devices. At the same time prices have plummeted for quality inexpensive subs. (Hsu, Rythmik, SVS, etc.)

With DSP and a fair set-up, I think most would be amazed how great a Swarm 4-sub setup can sound as opposed to one big old sub of days of yore.

But OP, your ASW2000 is a very fine sub so I understand where you remain!

["deadhead1000   I had a Velodyne that was at least 15 years old, it was great for surround sound with movies, but even though room filling, it didn't seem to do 2 channel very well. I turned the movie room into just a music room about 2 years ago and replaced the Velodyne late last year with a JL Audio with DSP. The JL Audio sub itself is so well mixed in with my main speakers that you can't tell I have a sub. That was never true with the Velodyne."] 

["musicaddict   I had one of the first Velodyne F-1800 Mk. II monster subwoofers with servo-control a monster amp and 30+lb 18 inch driver.  Never-again for audio, theater doubtful."]

Understandable.

In my Velodyne ULD thru the HGS series manuals they warn against middle of the room locations, the effects of corner placement and suggesting side wall placement experimentation. A vague and easily overlooked suggestion likely leading to both of your issues. During a 60's session a recording engineer explained placing the sub at the listening position to find the rooms bass mode sub position. I assumed it common knowledge. Over ten years after the ULD the Foundation Series was a substantial redesign, sorry you were unable to enjoy it. 

I believe the first Velodyne positioning reference was in the 2003 Digital Drive Series Manual under, 'About Room Placement, 10. added a Tip: placing the sub at the listening position and using the mic and graphic display to locate the room positions with the flattest frequency response. 

In Velodyne's 2011 DD Plus User's Manual the "Crawl Test" is more clearly explained under the heading Optimization for Subwoofer Placement and the first step of the Optimization Parameters. The then all new DD Plus uses a vastly more system inclusive Auto / Manual EQ Room Optimization setup procedure over the DD. The DD Plus 200-15Hz Sweep Tones are played through the entire speaker and subwoofer systems. The in room frequency response of the speakers from 200Hz is graphically displayed. When the Plus Optimization begins the 20 minute Auto EQ adjusts the subs output parameters from100Hz in relation to the speakers low frequency output within the room at the same time leaving the speakers free of digital conversion or added time consuming I /O stages.

Over a decade ago I used my Velodyne's early DD-18's processing to run a JL Audio F113. Three of us agreed there was a very noticeable improvement over the auto only A.R.O.. Even so the Fathom series are incredible subwoofers. 

I have the Velodyne ULD 15 MK II. 
 

Placement is critical. I used the crawl test. Oddly, it sounded fantastic AT the seating position. I moved it 3 feet behind. 

I am currently fine with it.