End Game Turntable suggestions


Hello all, looking for insights to help me narrow down to some core choices; I am open to new or preowned. My system details can be seen under my profile.

In summary I have significantly expanded my vinyl collection and as of now I am looking to purchase an end game turntable appropriate for my setup. As you can see I use Mola Mola Kaluga Monos, and I really like the Zesto Pre and Phonostages. I find the class D/tube pre combination very pleasing. 

I would appreciate suggestions for around $5-8K (table + arm), new or used. I will have separate budget for cartridge. One preferred option (but not must-have) is universal voltage, as I may move the unit to Europe later. My current vintage turntable (Project Perspective) is 22 years old, and while I don't know how to compare to something really amazing, I can say that my setup is lacking detail and bass. The tonearm is terrible to keep aligned. Based on visits to Axpona and Cap Audio Fest and other research, I am thinking of a few in my budget, but will really value your suggestions of other brands:

- Origin Live Sovereign

- VPI Signature

- SAM Sinner

- Thorens TD 1601 (semi automatic)

Visual appeal is important to me (which is why Technics 1200 is not on my list despite great reviews everywhere). I love the idea of set it and forget it DD tables, but unfortunately mostly out of my budget (eg VPI HW-40 going for abt 11K used)....

Sorry for the long post but my hope is this background and help solicit good suggestions. Thanks

 

musicmatters1206

@au_lait It is great to see a positive appraisal from an experienced TT user about the impact Panzerholz has made on a TT they have a familiarity with.

I am regularly being supplied accounts that are very similar to the account you are sharing.

I am a advocate of P'holz with the same passion I have for using PC Triple C Wire, as a Internal Wand Wire in a Tonearm and any other easier to achieve interfaces within a System. Either one of these materials are able to change a perception and create a very positive appraisal.

As for the P'holz, I have shared regularly the benefits I have encountered through the usage of it, and have been an encourager to others to use it.

When adopted as a material, the responses received back are as per your own, where I am receiving a very positive appraisal and there is a commitment to the material as the outcome.

One individual I purchased P'holz for, has become so impressed they are not only producing Plinths and further using it as a Sub Plinth.

They have now adopted my requests that have been presented on a regular occasion and produced a TT Chassis from P'holz.

Along with this venture, they are Pioneers using their CNC Skills to produce a host of parts they believed would benefit from being exchanged to P'holz.

I have been demonstrated some of this fledgling work and can assure that there is a difference for the better, cleaner better shaping of Vocals and Notes is a definite   perception. There is no returning to Metal or Plastic Parts that is a asurity, just as a adopter of this material to being used as a Plinth is very rarely discovered to have not wanted to maintain the material. I only know of one person who has used it not as 'P'holz Only',  but used it as a composite. They preferred this sonic for a period of time. When comparing the composite to a 'P'holz Only' at a later date, they chose the P'holz only as their preferred material for the detail retrieval and turned the composite into a 'P'holz Only' as well. 

I am in communication with others around the Globe, and some have now adopted the ideas to use this in place of a Mass Support Structure as a Plinth for a TT.

What was not expected was when I witnessed Idler Drive Owners. who were die hard in their favouritism for a Mass Plinth. when having experienced a Densified Wood, changed their philosophies and are not with a Plinth in a P'holz or Permali.  

Again the reports from those adopting to P'holz with a DD TT are quite something and the Comparison Measurements being shown are quite informative, especially the 'db' comparisons being substantially improved when compared to a Mass Plinth Design.  

I was in contact with an individual in Mainland Europe who was an advocate of Wood Tonearm Wands. They adopted P'holz and were extremely impressed by the material. They have even sought out other Densified Wood, where there are increased Laminations than the 25 per 25mm. Pico Wood comes to mind. As a result of this very high appraisal, I have offered Densified Wood 'off cuts' to other users of wood wands that I know off.

With the access to a CNC and Skilled user, I am setting aside a P'holz Board for another investigative venture.

I have pretty much decided I don't want to do too much more with the Sony TTS 8000, there are a few things that make it a hard TT, to promote to others as a TT to attempt to do additional work with.

I am now to use a one of my owned Denon DP-80's as a Donor Model.

This is hopefully going to end up with having the original Chassis Produced from P'holz as a replacement.

In my assessment, due to the Magnetic Strip on the Platter much of the 'under the hood' parts will need to be maintained on the New Chassis. This could be changed as I am yet to have my friend EE who specialises in DD TT's assess the potential for a change to the design and offer further improvements.

When the EE gets into the Nitty Gritty, the Speed Control will certainly be assessed to see where an improvement can be added.

The EE is also a adept engineer and machinist, with this TT, the Bearing assembly will be checked to see if it can contain a Low Viscosity Oil, and a Bearing Housing will be produced that will contain such an oil without a concern for a leach out. This was done for the TTS 8000 to a very successful outcome.

The Bearing will also be reconstructed using New Parts that will be a design with a  Low Coefficient of Friction.

The Platter on this Model lends itself to works being undertaken that have had a great effect on the performance of a DD TT.

The DP -80 Platter, is a Two Piece Assembly where a Top Plate is removable.  I have a Phosphor Bronze Part as a direct replacement for the Original Top Plate.

The intention is also to produce a Phosphor Bronze / 20mm Delrin Top Plate and a Delrin Only Top Plate possibly close to a 40mm Thickness, it might get done in two 20mm's pieces to assess the effects of the mass of the material used at this location. 

I know for sure there are going to be a very noticeable differences to the performance of the Original DP-80, but I have a original one reserved for the A/B Comparisons.

It will also be off interest to see how the original might change in its performance with the options for an increased amount of designs to be used as an exchange part as the Top Plate on the Platter. 

As seen with other TT's having adopted the used of P'holz.

The use of P'holz with the DP-80, will in my view be the Key to the door, to allow all other changes added to be optimised for their impact on the performance.   

Dear @au_lait : Well you are a fan of Technics even in your R2R unit and you like the long tonearms. I like and have first han experiences with your Pallete and as you I own ADS speakers in my case the L-2030 modified by me.Yes, the MK3 is hard to beat maybe the lewm that has a different plynth material could or sounds different.

Plynth material for vinatge top TT seems to me that with blend of material and very good internal damping could be the solution but yours looks beautiful.

In the new Technics SP10 they choosed not wood and the SAT one neither or the Air Force.

Anyway, I really like your MK3 " presentation ".

R.

 

If you're interested in Basis Audio, which it seems you are, I highly recommend the 2500 with the vector tonearm. That said, this option from basis is worth exploring

The debut exceeds the performance of the 2500. It comes with their best tonearm, which is as good a tonearm as one can buy and works best with Basis turntables.

 

Good luck in your search. Btw, the dynavector xv1s is excellent with the Basis.

I couldn’t agree more on the recommendation for basis tables and vector 4 tonearm.  
 

The debut above Looks like a good deal. I’ve had two basis tables I’m currently using the 2200 signature and can’t imagine a better presentation.

Panzerholz is excellent for sure, but it is also very dense. Thus I see panzerholz as a kind of mass damping, in the same category as any other materials used to the same end. Albeit panzerholz may be the best or one of the best choices. PH for a tonearm wand is also an interesting idea but such a wand will inevitably have a high effective mass, due to the density. Reed offer PH as an option. I believe it’s their highest mass choice.