Is Rap a valid musical form?


This has been way more than the progression away from tubes to SS!

Believe the world of Hip Hop has been around and evolving for around 5 decades.

And for most of that time I have dismissed and avoided that world and its “music”.

So angry, offensive and abrasive. Just a bunch of rhythmic yelling.

I believe my former thread was titled “Why Rap?”.  Through that discussion and somewhat of an understanding that this must be a new art form that engages and entertains millions if not billions. That and a long standing belief that if a type of music or a particular artist attracts many, many fans there must be substance and quality there. Even if I personally don’t particularly like it there must be something there.

Rap and the Hip Hop world was always so foreign and culturally untouchable.

Then my Rap thread and several others at that time got me rethinking my perspective and I watched a video of a group of student performance musicians at Juilliard all exclaiming their fascination with a Rap artist named Kendrick Lemar and his “masterpiece” “To Pimp a Butterfly”. I bought the double LP. Trying to listen to it turned out to be difficult because of my old view of Rap and that of the world of Hip Hop. But it was also becoming clear that this was truly something of significant interest. However, I just listened to the two discs only once-with some difficulty.

Today, after several weeks, I hesitatingly pulled the album out again. And to my surprise and actually delight hearing it with fresh ears it grabbed me and would not let go. I immediately heard the brilliance of a multi faceted, and to me, all new experience in sound. Not unlike great 20th century or progressive Jazz it evolved from section to section with a plethora of fascinating, yes musical, experiences. Tonal, atonal, percussive, rhythmic, breathing combined with incredible, energetic tongue twisting strings of mostly unintelligible words. And not merely angry yelling.

Sure, a ton of F bombs but words that don’t flow over you like lovely other genres but invade the psyche and don’t let go. Not particularly pleasant but gripping and interesting in its complexity. Words delivered with such power and drive which acted as a rhythmic counterpoint. It was impossible to turn away or turn off. 
And speaking of turned off, the experience was the opposite of that. Stories of life undeniable human. Yes, driven by bitterness, anger and raw emotion. Impossible to  dismiss it as not deeply felt.

I do think “To Pimp a Butterfly” is unique. But I also believe that there must be much more in this Hip Hop world that has deep musical interest. Some time ago I heard Drake on SNL perform a song that was amazing though not really Rap. Rather an advanced and unconventional musical form. I hear similar musical threads throughout “Pimp”. I did get a CD of Drake. “Scorpion”. I also could not absorb it in my first listen. I look forward to the next, fresh listen. I did try to hear several YouTubes of some very successful Rap artists. They mostly lacked the interesting musical themes threaded through. “Pure Rap” with just the rhythmic words-not my cup of tea. But a musically valid form none the less.

 

 

mglik

After listening to several of the suggestions here and elsewhere, including Kayne West, Missy Elliot, Tyler the Creater, Snoop Dog, Tupac Shakur, Nicki Minaj, Flo Rida and others (I chose the best-selling names to see what's considered the cream-of-the-crop), I feel I have a better understanding of the reason for the chasm.

I think the rap that really irritates those of us who hate rap is the type that doesn't have any "musical" talent. They don't use "real" instruments, everything is created by moving a mouse around a desktop, the beats are monotonous and simplistic and the talking is monotone and not "musical." Those are artists like Kanye West, Jay-Z, Tupac Shakur, Tyler the Creater and Missy Elliot.

What I found after digging deeper is that there are actually "musical" rappers. I don't know what their whole catalog is like, but Flo Rida actually has musical songs, uses a lot of "real" instruments (or they're exceptionally well-sampled) and sometimes sings instead of talks. I even stumbled upon one Nicki Minaj song that was musical, but just one. So maybe like *pop, which I also dislike, there are a few decent songs.

Am I going to start "listening" to them? No. But I find them acceptable as background music.

 

* I watch Rick Beato's videos where he critiques the current pop charts. Recently he did the ten song-of-the-year Grammy nominees. All but a couple were pathetic three- or four-chord monotonous progressions with no time signature changes and no instrumental or vocal talent. And the couple that weren't were no better than background music. Most of the other chart-topping videos he does are universally unlistenable. I have to play some Dream Theater just to regain the brain cells I lost listening to them. Granted, pop has always generally sucked, but older pop at least had some songs that required talent.

Garcia asserted Rap is not music because it lacks two of the three essential qualities of music-- melody and harmony. In his view, rhythm (the third quality) alone does not constitute "music" and I agree.

Australian aboriginals used instruments not known to the rest of the world, by that definition their playing of instruments and their music is not actually music - yeah, I call "utter nonsense" on that limited view.

Rap is from the ghetto. They used what they had to tell a story. It’s not about having a full orchestra. It’s about the flow of vocals. To say rap is not music and to say all the talent is at a click of a button is ridiculous. There’s a lot of music you won’t catch me listening to but that doesn’t mean it’s not music. 

Comparison ...

1977 George Benson - The World Is A Ghetto

1996 Geto Boys - The World Is A Ghetto

The palate of rappers, music evolves gents ... flow with it ....

@asvjerry, I knew it was only a matter of time before you'd throw down some LL Cool J ;-)

 

Widen the definition perhaps. Symphony Sid coined the phrase vocalese during be-bop. Is the sound of tap dancing music? How about a tonal “classical music”. Here are three great definitions of rap in a wider definition for me:

Subterranean Homesick Blues" 
Bob Dylan :
Johnny's in the basement
Mixing up the medicine
I'm on the pavement
Thinking about the government
The man in a trench coat
Badge out, laid off
Says he's got a bad cough
Wants to get it paid off…..

King Pleasure
Parker’s Mood:
Come with me,
If you want to go to Kansas City…
I’m feeling lowdown and blue,
My heart’s full of sorrow.
Don’t hardly know what to do.
Where will I be tomorrow?….

The Beatitudes
Matthew

3Blessed are the poor in spirit,
    for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn,
    for they will be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,
    for they will inherit the Earth.
6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
    for they will be satisfied.
7Blessed are the merciful,
    for they will be shown mercy…..