Teach me about cartridge 'retipping'


Thought I would throw this out there for comment by long time vinyl aficionados...

We all have cartridges we love, some are pricey treasures... but they wear out eventually even with much care and diligence in use.

There are still some good folks with excellent reputations doing retip services of various makes - Peter at SS, Andy Kim in WA, Steve Leung in NJ etc etc... not to mention some of the manufacturers of course, who still do them. It would seem to me these old craftsmen may or may not be passing along these valuable skills to younger apprentices.

I have bought a couple Grace F9 retips from Peter Ledermann - they work wonderfully. No longer having a fresh factory F9L I will never know whether they sound different.  But they sound great.

Curious to hear comments about how these retips are done, and whether they can reliably reproduce the original sound signature of the cartridge. I wonder, for instance, about how the cantilever is removed and reinstalled, relative to the suspension of the original cartridge, etc etc.  Is the suspension replaced?  What is a suspension comprised of, for example, in a typical higher end MC cart like a Dynavector a Lyra a VDH...

Of course, as time passes, the original cartridges age and I can imagine suspensions in them eventually get compromised as well...
128x128Ag insider logo xs@2xjjss49
Chak, I am sure you know the phrase “in my opinion “ in English. You should consider using it more often.
it would seem to me that if a retipper/rebuilder has a good idea of the exact specs of the old cartridge cantilever and tip and suspension, to the extent materials are available, he can basically try to mimic the original spec, correct?

of course never ever perfect, but i should think they can get fairly close unless unobtanium exotic materials are called for...

just common sense reasoning...
I have an experience of having a Cartridge Rebuilt.
My Investigations and Ordering a Cartridge to be rebuilt, was motivated by the results that I had heard from another Cartridge that is a model that is near unobtainable to purchase.
The closest I got was through fraud offerings as a Sale Item.

This Cartridge had been heard by myself on a Home System as a overhauled Cartridge and was remaining at the Factory Spec. 

The Cartridge Owner was aware there was a further work that could be carried out and as a result of ordering this work to be undertaken,
it evolved into a Rebuilt Cartridge, using more update technologies for the internal parts, as well as another Stylus Part.

When hearing this rebuilt Cartridge, I was undoubtedly sure I was hearing a Change, and what I hearing as a presentation, was much more to my liking.
I was sure this was a place I wished to be with my Cartridge Selection, 
but was knowing a Cartridge of the Model being used does not be genuinely seen for sale.

Further Investigation on the Subject showed a Cartridge from the Same Brand and of a Similar design could be used as a Donor for a rebuild.
The Technician predicted a outcome that would be very satisfactory, but it would be dependant on the Suitability of the Donor Cartridge.

After a thorough Inspection being carried out by the Technician of the Sourced Donor Cartridge Internals, the Bobbin and Coils were declared in very good condition and a thorough cleaning was required, it was claimed to filthy internally.  
I had a rebuild produced at very fair money using modern design materials found on the Brands High End Cartridges.
I also chose a Different Stylus Part.

This build has been totally satisfying and Compared on regular occasion  to the unobtainable model that motivated me.
Both Cartridge Owners are very impressed with the outcome of the comparisons, and how close the two Cartridges are, they are not Twins,
but definitely Siblings wearing similar outfits.

I have recently purchased very cheaply, another used Cartridge.
It is a Seven Year Old from new purchase, from the Same Brand, that has a lost Stylus Only.
It is to be used as a Donor Cartridge.

I had carried out Macro Photography to see if I could discover if the Boron Cantilever had broke,  or if the Stylus had lost adhesion and separated.
What was very evident was the Dirt on the Cantilever and on the Body as well as entering the Housing by the Bobbin.

The Granular Particles being witnessed was quite a surprise,
I don't know how much they will effect the performance or the SQ,
but witnessing such a build up of Particles has made me rethink if a Cartridge would benefit from intermediate cleaning during its Stylus Life. 

The New Donor Cartridge, afaik,  has a internal technology that is further improved upon the Model I have in use at present.
I am now in discussion about my Rebuild Options, before it is sent for an inspection to be proven as a Suitable Donor.

The Technician has informed me over time of the Risks of buying in Donor Cartridges and having a expectancy of them being rebuilt.

They will only work on Samples from Brands in a very good condition, with use only wear being witnessed,
a Cartridge with 'third party works undertaken' prior to their receiving the Cartridge, will not be worked on.
They have informed me that many of the models from the Brand I am selecting are returned to their owners as a not able to be re-tipped,
as internal damage is seen on the Bobbin or Coils.

I am not out of the Woods Yet with my new plan, it might not be produced, as a result of a report on the condition witnessed during the Inspection.
It is another part of the wonderful journey into the pursuit of a New and Unique Experience, with my Vinyl Front End.

Not all Cartridge Technicians will accept a Cartridge to be worked on,
because it is their Business to do so.
My Experience is that a Technician will Charge a fixed fee, that a customer will be informed of in advance, the fee is to cover for a Inspection to be carried out, to assess the Cartridge as a Suitable Cartridge to be worked on.

If a work is achievable the Inspection fee will be absorbed into the overall fee, as it will be part of the process of the work being undertaken.

I am happy with how I have chosen to work with a Cartridge that will have been either compromised over time, through Wear, unknown Damage,
or as reported to and recently witnessed a Substantial Build Up of contamination.

To have a Cartridge that is an Obsolete Model and a Superseded Design, brought up to a Spec, where it will deliver a performance that is very attractive and satisfying for a reasonable reasonable outlay,
as well as becoming a Unique Model from a accomplished Technician.
Is from my end a very Nice Experience to be attached to.  




  
FWIW... the above picture of the "glued" line contact diamond on a boron cantilever is a complete diamond / cantilever assembly bought from Namiki directly.

https://ad-na-shop-en.myshopify.com/collections/boron-cantileverhttp://

dave

Okay, I stumbled across my name being mentioned so I signed up.  I just want to say a few things as a retipper.  First of all, it's not for everyone.  Chakster's mind is clearly made up about the subject and he takes a dim view.  There are a lot of assumptions to what he says, namely strict uniformity and perfection to be found with any factory made cartridge as well as zero error and perfect tolerance.  The basis of his reservations go like this: Every single cartridge ever made by any manufacturer is perfectly thought out and engineered to the highest degree of precision.  Any change to this formula is a degradation.  Okay.  We get it.  Makes sense.  Now, to poke some holes.

Chakster himself says to buy a slew of the same model of cartridge to get an idea of what the cartridge is supposed to sound like.  Hidden in this advice is Chakster's own observation that many individual examples of the same exact model of cartridge are going to sound different from each other even though they use all the same parts, are built by the same people and must have the same degree of quality in their construction which is higher quality than any retipper can provide. 

But if this is the case, then how does one explain why these cartridges that should all be uniformly exactly the same and perfect sound so different from each other?

Next assumption: Cartridge manufacturers use exclusive parts that are available only to them.  This is partially true.  I have never been able to get the gold plated tapered boron cantilever that Audio-Technica offers except by purchasing an Audio-Techica stylus at retail. 

No one else to my knowledge uses anything but off the shelf stock production items by the cantilever/diamond manufacturers with the exception that Lyra uses a 3/70 micron Ogura diamond on many of their cartridges, which is a diamond formula that is contractually exclusive to Lyra.  I can't buy them from Ogura without causing Ogura to violate their exclusive contract with Lyra in other words.

But are the diamonds really 3/70 in every case?  Consider that most diamonds, if you read the QC reports when you order them, shows that there is a lot of variation when you order.  If I were to order 4/70 from Ogura, which would not violate the exclusive contract with Lyra, then I would probably end up with a couple of 3/70.  But who would know?  I wouldn't. 

The Audio-Technica MicroLine is no different than the Namiki Micro Ridge except that it could be that those Micro Ridge that come out of production conforming to a 2.5/75 whatever it is dimension will be shipped to A-T but all the rest will be sold as Micro Ridge.  So if a 3/80 comes out, it's a Micro Ridge.  If a 2.5/75 comes out, it's a MicroLine.  But what about a 2.5/80?  The reality is that these are tiny tiny objects produce to tolerance like anything else and they aren't all the same and I could get some that are close enough to original that you wouldn't know the difference.

Retippers don't consider the spirit and identity of a cartridge: Jonathan Carr says supposedly, "In over 30 years of involvement in the phono cartridge industry, I have not seen one retipper who has presented the entire story, who has effectively said "Here are the all of the considerations. Here are the cons as well as the pros. Make a wise choice that is best for you" ... " (J.Carr, 2013)"  Look at Sound Smith's page.  Perhaps Jonathan has never seen it, but it was there in 2013.  Retippers like Peter will tell you more about the truth of cartridges than cartridge manufacturers ever will.  Cartridge manufacturers want you to think that much of what they do is exclusive, but it's an industry like anything else and there are suppliers.  Just like with cars of all different makes and models all riding on the same tires, or starting with the same Bosch starter, most cartridges use parts sourced by the same suppliers.  There are five that I know of that supply to the manufacturing industry.  Ogura, Namiki, Gyger, Synton and Nagaoka.  That's it.  Synton in Switzerland makes all the bonded diamonds--pretty sure on that.  They also now make the black nude diamonds.  Some speculation exists that Jico has a Japanese source for bonded diamonds, but I haven't found the evidence other than they do offer bonded line contacts, a source of which I have not been able to uncover.  But it could also be that they purchased supplies for decades and stockpiled and so will have them for decades to come even if none have been manufactured in many years.  A million bonded diamond tips can fit into a box the size of a cigarette pack.  

Glue on the tip: All manufacturers use glue.  The very idea that there is no glue holding a diamond into place on any cantilever assembly save the solid diamond/stylus feat of engineering by Yamaha or Sony whoever it was is just not the case.  Manufacturers often use less glue than a retipper will, but manufacturers will also turn their backs on you if a diamond falls off, and they do fall off.  A retipper wants to make sure the diamond stays on and a retipper knows that the extra epoxy is of such low mass that it's not going to affect the ETM in any meaningful way.  What might affect it is that the length of the diamonds sold as bare replacement diamonds are often longer than the originals--at least with Ogura.  Typical diamond for Ogura in a boron prong fitting is about .5mm whereas the loose diamonds are .6 to .7.  This makes the glue blob look bigger.  Ogura can supply them shorter, but if it ever were to become an issue, which it hasn't, then maybe I would insist.

Namiki uses wads of glue to hold their Micro Ridge onto a boron cantilever.  So do retippers.  The diamond itself is so small that the glue is negligible.  If under testing I were ever to notice tracing issues, then I would use less glue.  But the only stylus that is really fussy about keeping things extremely low mass is a Pickering or Stanton stylus.  These really need someone who can work to the absolutely lowest mass repair possibly or you will have sibilance.  This is why the aftermarket styli are often not so great.

In order to keep a half size diamond butt jointed onto a boron or sapphire cantilever, I have developed a six stage process that has taken me much trial and error to perfect.  I get maybe 1 in 50 returned to me for falling off.  That's better than the manufacturer's record.  I'll keep doing what I'm doing, then.

I take enormous pride in my work.  I really enjoy retipping and getting cartridges to work again. I can go on and on and on on this topic, but I only wanted to address a few points since I was sort of summoned and I have read chakster's opinions a number of times and I just wanted to respond to some of them.  They are the kinds of arguments that are made when someone insists on a type of perfection that simply does not exist in this world, even by their own observations which they choose to simply ignore.

Design and build process: I touched on this earlier.  There are as many ways to build a cartridge as there are cartridge manufacturers.  The evidence I see over and over again is that there are fewer parts than manufacturers.  Most manufacturers don't make their own dampers, I suspect.  They certainly do not make their own wire for the tie wires or the wire for their moving coils.  They do not make their own magnets.  The don't make their own aluminum tubing.  They certainly do not make their own diamonds.  What's left to make?

Like anything, many cartridge engineers I would say are like those in any industry.  They specify parts made from a certain very limited array of materials over and over again.  You can have a damper made from about four different formulations of rubber, all by the same precision rubber manufacturer.  Ortofon might make their own dampers.  Audio-Technica probably makes their own unique moving coil assembly.  Most other manufacturers probably buy them from Excel or somewhere else, but there's not a lot of competition there.  So as much as some people imagine that cartridge engineers have access to an unlimited palette of materials from which to specify, there are many aspects to the design of cartridges that come down to a process that is more like any other industry.  If I'm designing plumbing, I can have this pipe or that pipe, but I'm not going to actually have pipe designed from scratch for me.  It's the same with cantilevers, dampers, magnets, etc.  Of course there are exceptions.  Koetsu is the only manufacturer supposedly to have access to the manufacture of platinum magnets.  Okay, well  most retippers don't need platinum magnets anyway because they aren't replacing Koetsu magnets.

And I can buy my own parts too.  I have wire, I have tension wire, I have rubber dampers, magnets, cantilever tubing, diamonds, etc.  I will even have my own sapphire and ruby rods in .28 mm soon to which I will install my own diamonds.  I even have diamonds no one else has because I found old stashes of stock from defunct manufacturers and stockpiled whatever I could and I am always looking for more.  A good retipper can take your cartridge to the next level, just like a good mechanic can improve your car even if he doesn't use the exact same parts to repair your car that the dealer uses.

Speaking as a retipper, I can only offer that I endeavor always to do the best work I can.  Whether it is attaching a new Micro Ridge diamond onto the chipped end of a diamond cantilever on a Koetsu Coralstone Platinum or installing a bonded elliptical diamond factory mounted to a standard aluminum cantilever on a Denon DL-110, you get the same level of craftsmanship from me.  I know that audiophiles don't like to see much glue at all and so I keep the glue as limited in amount as I feel that I can possibly get away with without risking creating a faulty repair.  After all, I want my customer to be happy with the visual appearance of my work even if in my mind and experience, you can't hear the cement.  And I certainly don't want the diamond to fall off the cartridge when it's back with the customer, maybe somewhere halfway across the globe from here.

Retipping allows people to enjoy favorite cartridges again.  It allows people to upgrade them if they want to, and also allows them to downgrade them if they need to.  If it weren't a valuable service, I wouldn't be here.  It allows me to allow people to experience cartridges they probably never would have been able to otherwise.  The Micro Acoustics range of piezo cartridges is a great example.  User replaceable styli for these have dried up.  Without retippers, the opportunity to experience a beryllium cantilever on a piezo cartridge would simply continue to disappear.

Suspension wear and age: well overstated.  I have retipped probably thousands of cartridges by now, many of them decades old.  There are a few examples of particular models with known issues (Shure V15 Type IV is a big one), and some others to a lesser degree, but otherwise, suspension rubbers are basically stable.  Some have fragile suspensions that will likely break if the cantilever is ever broken, like the Denon DL301 MKII and almost any Audio-Technica, and others just go soft over time like some Yamahas whose suspension donut simply liquifies and actually evaporates.  Supex SD901 Super (but not the SD900 Super or any other Supex in my experience, all of which are extremely stable) just turns to goop most of the time. Storage conditions are more of a predictor of whether a suspension will be bad.  But most people will store a broken cartridge in a dark, cool environment away from moisture, like the sock drawer, as a matter of instinct.

In the end, going with a retipper is a personal decision.  Some people will always advise never to use a retipper or to buy a retipped cartridge.  Okay, fair enough.  Perhaps they had a bad experience with retipping.  It happens.  A bad retipping experience got me started in this trade, so I actually have bad retipping to thank, ironically enough. 

But many would advise it and do advise it based on positive experience because it can be extremely positive and should be.

Okay, that's it for me.  I chimed in a lot more than I had planned to and I could have a lot more to say, but I'll just end here.