LP12- Power Supply- Need education

Millercarbon since I know you are a smart guy I have to believe that you have never had a chance to live with a properly designed suspended turntable.

My first turntable was a Technics SL-1700. Still have it. Next was a Basis 2005, another suspended table. Had that one around 10 years. Not sure about the Technics, but Michael Fremer himself recommended the Basis (along with a similar VPI) when he called to help me out. So pretty sure that yes, I have lived with a properly designed suspended table.

Living with the Basis taught me a lot about turntables. Taking it all apart, seeing how its all made, modifying and hearing how each mod affects the sound. Its all been described before but every part- motor, belt, power, platter, bearing, suspension- was over the years changed. Not merely swapping out one whole table for another like most guys do. How can anyone possibly gain any understanding of what each part is doing if all - the whole thing- is changed at once? Impossible. Changing just one part at a time- the belt for example, or the motor, or the bearing- that's how you learn what's going on.

Any minor irregularities are filtered out by the mass of the platter. They never make it to the record.

Good example. First thing I ever did, swap the power cord on that Basis turntable. Same platter, same mass, same bearing. Same motor. How could the power cord make a difference? It did. 

I have changed motor, pod, motor pod feet, motor pod support location, and material, motor controller, motor controller umbilical cable (!) and more- all with the same bearing, plinth, and massive platter. Easily heard differences each time- not all of them a lot or good but always a difference. If platter mass filtered it all out then how is that possible?

Oh and yes some of it is damping. Also have changed damping under the motor, turntable, plinth, and base. Individually. So I know exactly what each change sounds like. There is definitely a difference between the lowering of the noise floor and revealing of inner detail that damping achieves and the reduction in grain and glare and improved air and depth and imaging that comes with more precise speed control.

Every single one of these is a trade off of some kind or other. Damped and isolated lowers noise- and dynamics. Massive and stiff is more dynamic- and noisier. There's a million different stories but its trade offs right down the line. Would love the chance to hear a SOTA. Never even heard of anyone who has one, least not around Seattle. 

 

None of the power supplies mentioned here, including any of the Linn options or the VPI PSs, incorporate a feedback mechanism whereby instantaneous changes in platter speed can be sensed and corrected. What you do is to set the PS such that your platter is turning at 33.333 rpm using one or another technology (recommend KAB strobe device)  to monitor the speed while you set the power supply. After that, the platter is on its own; the PS cannot account for belt slip, belt creep, stylus drag, etc. Phoenix Engineering made an aftermarket power supply with a separate tachometer that connects to the PS and feeds back speed errors that could be due to any of the above, which are then corrected.  PE no longer markets these devices, but SOTA has worked out a deal with the PE engineer, Bill Carlin, and essentially PE equipment can now be purchased through SOTA. Some think this sort of mechanism introduces new problems due to the act of correcting the aberrant speed, which, such persons think, has the potential to be as audible as is any momentary degradation of speed control.  I don't agree based on my personal experiences.
The mentioned method of running the turntable motor on reduced voltage to reduce noise does not always work well with all types of motor, and carries with it the penalty of a loss of torque. In fact, I think at least one of the VPI devices works by lowering voltage and/or current. I don't know whether Linn uses an AC or DC motor, but if you can adapt an AC synchronous motor to your Linn, then in my opinion the very best option is to buy such a motor and the SOTA/Phoenix Engineering products to run your Linn.  In my experience, ANY competent motor power supply makes a huge upgrade for a belt-drive motor, but the PE stuff is the absolute best.
I am not a big fan of suspended turntables with lightweight platters, but if I had to optimize one, I'd go that route.  I do use the original PE gear to run my Lenco, and I am very happy with the results.

None of the power supplies mentioned here, including any of the Linn options or the VPI PSs, incorporate a feedback mechanism whereby instantaneous changes in platter speed can be sensed and corrected.

You’re incorrect, both the Linn Lingo 4 and Radikal use sensors in a closed loop with a speed control which monitors platter position once per revolution. The Lingo 4 accomplishes this with an AC motor and the Radikal a DC motor. I have direct experience with both and they are at the very least equal to the Phoenix Roadrunner/Eagle (I owned and used both Phoenix products on VPI and Basis turntables.).

@saburo   +1


There is, as usual, a ton of misinformation and pure 'BS' being foisted by those who really have absolutely no clue about the sound of a well set up Linn LP12. 
I love this from mijostyn...'listen to a Linn platter, you will be able to pick up radio stations'..ridiculous!

Millercarbon, the power cord made a difference only because you wanted it to. In reality it did not make any difference. Don't feel like I am picking on you. I sometimes have trouble separating psyche from reality. I have never used either turntable you have mentioned and can not speak to their performance. If you had problems with them then I would have to believe they were either not set up correctly or were not good examples of suspended turntables. Neither the SOTA or the SME are sexy turntables. The industry knows that if you make something look sexy enough many people will think they sound better. The reason most turntables are not suspended is because it is not an easy thing to do.
You either have to make it massive so that any additional mass (the tonearm) is trivial (SME) or create a system were in you can compensate for the mass of the tonearm (SOTA). Both turntables are far more accurate than the resolution of your brain to detect any speed variation flutter, wow or otherwise. All you are going to get out of a more massive platter is higher shipping cost and faster bearing wear. 
Very few upgrades result in "huge" improvements.  I think you minimize your opinion by describing variations this way. Whenever I hear "huge," "dramatic," "incredible," I automatically turn the comment off. 
I heard a demonstration comparing a Clearaudio Statement/Goldfinger combination with an SME 30/12/V12/Goldfinger combination and if there was a difference I certainly could not hear it neither could anyone else I talked to. None of us knew what was playing at any specific time until the end of the demonstration.