Lyra Kleos vs Koetsu Urushi

@ mulveling

I agree the Koetsu & Bob's Devices SUT combination is amazing. It's hard to imagine anything beating that paring for musicality

I have never heard any phono stage that was better sounding (with Urushi or not) than the John Curl produced Vendetta, and unlike many phono stages, it has tons of gain for anything with an output similar to the Koetsu, so no SUTs needed.  Too few made to be a realistic option for purchase but there should be a few other phono stages out there with sufficient gain.  The one I use on another system (CJ Premier 15) isn't a good choice as it lacks the gain if the Vendetta.

I do believe that you have to consider more than just gain. I tried a Lyra Cleo’s SL with a heron phono stage with I believe 74DB of gain which on paper should be more than enough. However going straight into the phono it sounded a bit polite and bland but once I ran it through an SUT into the phono it totally came alive!
I think in that instance it’s more about impedance matching.

I have a Rosewood Signature Platinum with almost no hours on after sending it to Koetsu in Japan for a rebuild . I got impatient for it to return and bought a GFS. Talk about a different flavour with the Clearaudio. I also have the Atlas and Etna SL. 

IMO you really have to move into the Platinum range with the Koetsu's in order to really hear the magic. Although I have heard Blacks sound really nice but those were produced years ago- maybe I just have not heard a modern Black do well. The RSP is a launch into the naturalness of Koetsu with a really good extension on top. It is a fabulous cartridge

In the meantime I have a Jade on the way as well. Maybe best man will win with my own personal battle of the Koetsus. We shall see.

I own a Koetsu Urushi and like it very much, but I always ranked it slightly below my favorite LOMC, which has lately been the ZYX Universe (the original version).  Recently, I mounted the Urushi in an 18g Ortofon LH9000 headshell and connected that to my Kenwood L07D tonearm, after the Urushi sat aside in its box for about 5-6 years.  For some reason, this raises the level of performance of my particular sample by quite a bit.  I am now enjoying it like it was a brand new toy, even though I've owned it for about 10 years. This piques my curiosity regarding Platinum and stone-bodied Koetsus in general, but not enough to induce me to shell out the $$$ required to own one of those models.

By the way, with any reasonable phono stage generating enough gain for an MM cartridge, a SUT with 1:10 step-up ratio should be more than sufficient for all but Platinum version Koetsus.  I was surprised to read that so many are using 1:20.  I am using no SUT, of course.

I ended up with a new Lyra Kleos, after some significant experiments with loading, which I found to be very critical, I ended up with a custom Vishay at 750 ohms. Accuracy of set up is also imperative with these cartridges, but once it’s right, the cartridge takes off!

Compared to the Koetsu’s I have recently heard, including the Urushi Black and Vermillion, the Lyra is frankly in a totally different league to my ears.. a major improvement over the Koetsu’s in one very important area to my ears...Resolution! IMHO.YMMV etc.,