2. speakers
  3. 1211428524

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy1's avatar
volleyguy1
343 posts
 
Regismc

In your power conditioner I assume you used each of these caps as bypass caps?

Your post has really got me thinking...

When I had the vintage amp installed with a ASC poly caps in the power supply the "signature" was easily discernible. I was quite shocked. I am getting that amp re-checked by technician and will listen again. When I replaced the vintage power supply cap with the Jensen again very noticeable. I know this could upset people but putting in the Jensen electrolytic cap literally made me feel getting all the Duelund parts would not have been worth it without the right sounding power supply cap. (the vintage in this case)

I said at the time I think that the power supply cap may be the most important of all caps yet almost felt crazy saying so as it is not even in the signal path. How could it be? Now you are saying even in the power conditioner? (without a doubt not in the signal path)

Your post has got me thinking caps exert a "signature" somehow right on to the supply of electricity?

For a long time I have hoped someone on this thread would do a paper in oil power supply. Apparently Leak did this years ago to great success.
salectric
747 posts
 
My pair of 7.5uf CAST caps arrived today right on schedule. I will be trying them out this weekend as the main high-pass crossover cap in my high-efficiency speakers. It will replace a blend of 6.8uf Mundorf Supreme and 1.0uf Duelund CAST. That blend has been the best sounding cap to date in that spot, but I am hoping that the single large value CAST will be even better.

I was surprised by how big the cap is---6.5" in diameter and a little over 1" in height. Pictures don't quite do it justice.
regismc
112 posts
 
Volley, the conditioner is a passive type. It has 4 digital outlets. 4 preamp outlets. 2 amp outlets. 5 duos in all, 2 digital, 2 pre, 1 amp. These r the orange, hospital grade type that offer a good solid copper connection. Nothing too exotic. It is divided into two input sections. The digital
and the preamp sections r fronted by their own CMCs, (common mode chokes).
Each input has its own ground. The amp section shares a ground w/the preamp, but is not fronted by the CMC. Those chokes must be properly sized for the amplifier used... If the CMC was too small it effects the amps performance.

The 'bypass' you mention, is simply to connect the capacitor on the outlets from
neutral to ground. The Yamaha A-S2000, & CDS-2000 floats the ground. There r no ground pins, only hot & neutral, so by filtering the neutral to ground on the input, the amps only see a clean, filtered neutral.

Whatever 'type' of cap one uses, you can easily id its 'signature' sound downstream. Frankly to an astonishing extent. The conditioner offers an easily
accessible test bed to rotate & test this out. I have 3 dedicated 10g lines from
a subpanel for my audio system. So I use two of these to feed each the digital &
the amp/pre sections of the conditioner.

Cautions apply. Use caps that are rated high enough for the voltage required.
Foil type caps, like the CuTf & Dueland r supposed no-no's, as they won't 'fail'
properly. If one attempts to filter, from hot to neutral, & one uses a cap 'too large', anything over 'somewhere' around 3 or 4uf (take your pick), heat can become an issue and a cap can 'fail', explode. Filtering neutral to ground you don't have this problem, & quiet frankly sounds more effective. Do this & I would not think you would have any problems. It's easy & the impact upon ones
system is pretty dramatic... in a good sense. Blacker backgrounds, wider & deeper soundstage, more separation of instruments, more focus, less 'hash', ect... I started out using .22s I had rolled into my pramp over the yrs.

Caps 'colour' ones system in a similar way as different tube type 'colour' ones
components. Flavor to taste. What led me down this road, was borrowing a
conditioner from a friend & putting the unit on my mac mini music server downstairs on a different floor from my main rig. Within a day or two, the system developed a 'metallic oil sheen' throughout the whole frequency range.
When I brought the conditioner back to my friend & we opened it up, there was
a large oil in metal cap following the CMC to the outlets. So a music server, on a
different floor, connected wirelessly to the Transporter, effected everything downstream in the listening room. That, for me, was quite a 'rabbit hole' to tumble down.

You get the idea...

After that I opened up the larger conditioner on the main rig upstairs &
removed the little .01uf caps I found on the outlets & replaced them w/the
larger, various caps on hand, a bunch of .22s. Results; one can easily change the character of say, a dac, pre, or amplifier by rolling the appropriate cap, on the outlet, that feeds the component. Go figure...

As 'Uncle Jerry' said, "... what a long strange trip it's been."
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,236 posts
 
Salectric,
I'm looking forward to your findings with the speaker capacitor change and its impact on your fine system.
Regards,
ricevs
1,515 posts
 
I have not listened to Mundorf or Dueland caps but I have always found that any cap larger than .33 needs a very small bypass cap for extended top end and detail. I know someone who just recapped his speaker with all Clarity Cap MRs and he then bypassed all the Claritys with the .1 and .01 Vishay Roderstein MKP1837s....mucho better highs and air. Large caps are inductive and therefore slow by nature. The Roderstein 1837 and the Wima small caps are fast as they are tiny by comparison. I just ordered some Wima FKP 02 .01s to try. These film and foil polyprops have only a 2.5mm lead spacing...very small(28 cents each at 100 from TAW). Audio Research has always bypassed all their coupling caps and power supply rails with .01s.

All film caps need to be marked for outside foil and oriented so the foil is to ground or the output. Also, you never want a cap dangling in the air or long bare wire dangling in the air....please hard mount the caps and damp bare wire with cotton sleeving. These things all make a sonic difference for the better.
More to discover