Glory, can I have your wife's phone number?
Doug, that was a pretty good pun.
Doug, that was a pretty good pun.
You can't have too many apostrophe's
Can we talk about this? Is it possible? Or by bringing it up, will I be relegated to that category of individual so many love to hate, the dreadful "grammar n?zi"?
Does it drive anyone else nuts that it seems that more and more adults in this country could evidently not pass a 5th grade English exam?
And is the increasing proliferation of "grocers apostrophes" THE single most annoying element of the above?!
Does it drive anyone else nuts that it seems that more and more adults in this country could evidently not pass a 5th grade English exam?
And is the increasing proliferation of "grocers apostrophes" THE single most annoying element of the above?!
91 responses Add your response
Commcat, I now see where you are coming from. In that context, I don't disagree. And in that situation, it is indeed the lack of appropriate emphasis on or access to education which is not disappointing, but shocking. My point was that there is another issue at large, which is that many of those who have had access to and 'gained' an education, ignore correct grammar afterwards because it is no longer cool to be well educated. In a large part of society, it is the mark of being an outsider rather than the opposite, and that is a crying shame. Perhaps the part you speak about and the part I was speaking about are linked and I did not draw the connection. Rodman, Nobody here but us 'pidgins'... :^) Eldartford, ABUSUSNONTOLLITUSUM |
Paul, All in good fun for sure. =8^) You did make reference to the 5th grade english exam so I would think typos would count and missed words. I did start a thread once with the word stopping in the headline but I wrote stoping. I would have failed the 5th grade exam that day. Growing up being a "Hippie" in the 60's didn't help my studies as it was not "in" to apply one's self to all that brain stuff. We were using our minds for other more exciting things. I since have chosen a specific field to excel in as far as knowledge and insight goes and it is very rewarding to me. My wife, being a book editor, has a lot of mercy on me for my lack of spelling skills. She can spot spelling errors on vans and trucks going down the road as they pass us. Billboards, books and mags. are also a sight to see when see finds errors. She did read my last post and she feels I am to crud in my writing. When members write such threads like this one I ask her to skim through all the threads and posts of such member to find "logs" but she refuses to do so. Great wife she is. This thread by Paul is not as high minded as some I have read. |
Commcat, Once again, I didn't complain about lack of punctuation. I spoke about incorrect punctuation and grammar, which takes more effort than none at all. Heck, if you don't understand basic grammar rules, there's no need to be greatly offended if somebody points it out. Make a small effort to rectify it and you probably will. Or, just decide you don't care and shrug it off. |
Hi Rodman99999, You do understand the meaning of "might", right? :) As for the effect of grammar on comprehension, your insinuation that it makes *no* difference is clearly quite naive. I didn't imply that it makes text impossible to understand, or even require some kind of "great effort", but it does make the brain work harder, and that's a simple fact. Let me put it in audio terms: an analogy would be the way phase errors in reproduced music cause the brain to burn more calories untangling the audio into something it recognizes, leading to (potential) long-term fatigue. Hope this has cleared things up for you a bit. |
Paul posted, "This might be my last post in the thread. Now you guy can burn me in effigy; have a blast! :)" Apparently: he can't help himself(five posts post-posting that post), like so many others in these forums. Paul- You said, "Writing "arena's" when you mean "arenas" makes your writing quite awkward to read for somebody who understands the rules of grammar." I understand the rules of grammar fairly well, and yet have no problem whatever discerning what others mean when using even the worst forms of Pigeon English. Perhaps your comprehension problem denotes a certain lack of intelligence, or some failure of mental process, on your part. Have you been doing a lot of drinking/drugs, or experiencing many so called, "senior moments" lately? If you read those troubling posts more slowly, their meanings may come to you more easily . Not to mention- If you were to type slower, you'd probably find yourself posting more clearly as well. Best wishes, and I hope you can resolve your issues. =8^) |
Paul, An assured method of tempering your obsession is to deal with the illiterate on a large scale. The significance of correct grammar versus poor grammar is substantially diminished. The fact that people can convey concepts and ideas effectively is the most important part of our language. To discover the enormously large number of Americans denied the basic ability to read and write is shocking. Whatever the cause, they are in a left in a limbo without at least two-thirds of the ability to communicate. Spoken English has no real punctuation, only affectations, pauses and gestures for expression. Our efforts to duplicate those with punctuation underline the imprecise nature of our language. If you can grasp the concept conveyed then the language has performed its task. |
Paul, You have made three miscues in this thread, the last being the missing "can" word in your final goodnight post. Throwing stones at others about their grammar errors and swinging three times and missing is like Babe Ruth pointing to the outfield seats to indicate a home run and striking out. The letter of the law kills. One error and you are guilty of the whole law. Could it be like trying to get the speck out of your fellow Agon members' eye and having a beam in your own? LOL I suggest you delete this thread and start over. =8^) |
Paul, In case you haven't done so, here is something worth reading. I am sure you will enjoy this: Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation Enjoy! Rene |
Paulfolbrecht, I am actually slightly pleased that we have yet to have someone posting who really means what I wrote. I too find it disappointing that standards of grammar usage are declining. What's worse for me, however, is that correct grammar is increasingly seen as irrelevant. Incorrect grammar on the part of people who are not native speakers is acceptable (at least I hope so - I can butcher French subjunctive with the best of them). Absolutely faulty grammar on the part of native speakers, who then dismiss the importance of being able to manipulate their own language correctly, is a black spot on American society (I think at this point it is beyond an issue of education, it is a societal problem that people simply do not care). Mrtennis, Stating that someone's opinion is unimportant because it is an opinion is itself an opinion so I am not sure why you posted. It seems however to the road you have been going down recently. A post you made the other day said (and I paraphrase) "Don't ask others' opinions." If one ignores the fact that your thread history is full of questions to the readership about what they think, and supposes that the sentiment is put forth honestly, is the main reason you participate in the forum to discuss facts? Is the reason why you call yourself a audio equipment 'reviewer' so that you can hold forth on specs? Commcat, I will disagree with you here. I find English to be an extremely nuanced language. It is precise where it needs to be, and vague when ambiguity is called for (oops! naughty me - ending a sentence with a preposition!). I have yet to study a language (and I've studied my share) which has as much flexibility and precision as English (if used correctly). |
| Post removed |
| Post removed |
I pretty much refuse to buy anything from an idiot who writes "the light's and meter's work". How can you NOT know the difference between possessives and plurals? Hey, even I can cut someone a little slack for it's and its, but NOT for simple plurals like lights and meters....givbe me a break! Oh, and one more thing, how about people who don't know the difference between lose and loose. If peple don't start learnin' sumptin', I'm gonna' 'loose' my mind. |
| Post removed |
And by the way, T_bone, your post was hilarious. :) What I'm lamenting here - and of course I was aware that few care - is that the standards of grammar are no doubt *slipping* in this country, and that's just really a shame. I don't mean this to sound arrogant, but, yes, you WILL sound stupid to certain people if you cannot write at even a high school level. And it's not a matter of laziness, obviously - I'm all for shorthand where it's convenient, and I feel for you non-touch-typists. But, no, all those extra apostrophes are actually EXTRA effort! This might be my last post in the thread. Now you guy can burn me in effigy; have a blast! :) |
No, it's not irrelevant. There are just a couple gray areas but plenty where the rules are completely clear - such as with plurals. Writing "arena's" when you mean "arenas" makes your writing quite awkward to read for somebody who understands the rules of grammar. Mr. Tennis, whether or not grammatical rules exist is not a matter of opinion. Whether or not they are important is, but even you must have your limits? (Not that there's anything 'wrong' with your grammar, other than the lack of any capitals, which I personally don't find distracting.) |
Didn't common-use cause the Queen's English to devolve into American English? And what is the correct usage of an apostrophe? I once was a stickler for correct grammar and found over the years that it was irrelevant even in arena's where one might not expect. English is such an imprecise language that the mere fact we can conceive ideas and generally communicate them is remarkable in itself. The fact is that common usage prevails, eventually. I am aware of the numerous errors in my response but as noted by others "So What??" |
These thread replies are more like text measaging than anything else and are answered by more than english speaking peoples. I do not think you would answer questons in another language other than Engish very well. Even english in the UK is differant, most words have many differant meanings and depends on content for the meaning of the word. I am Dyslexic and have issues spelling any how. I hope my spelling and grammer is ok. :-) |
Paulfolbrecht, OK. So you are obviously better educated then the rest of us', and you're pointing out the apostrophe abuse only show's that your self-important. Your like those hedge fund's who tryed to bring down Crysler - alway's concerned about the rules and not about whats really important in life. Its hardworking American's which determine how the language is used, not linguistic snob's like you! Boy that hurt... :^) And Paul, shouldn't that be "grocers' apostrophes"? :^) or worse "greengrocers apostrophe's"? |
Interesting. I did not realize we were being graded on our posts now. So, are we merely being graded on our grammer and syntax, or does content affect our grade as well? And is there a winner to all of this, and if so, what is the prize? Or does the winner merely get the smug satisfaction of being better than the rest? ;-) |
