Yamaha GT-2000 from Japan or local TD-125?
(Cross posted)
Im wondering if anyone has ordered one off Ebay. The Japanese websites seem pretty legit. I’m really sold on these, I’d say it’s my dream table for now.
Also have a chance to pick up a fully serviced Thorens TD-125 with an SME 3009 locally. Arm was rewired, but have not been quoted a price since the seller wants to wait until the work is complete. I’m guessing around the same as GT2000, likely low to mid 1k’s
Any constructive thoughts are much appreciated.
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Dear @brecchi : You not even have to ask due that the GT 2000 is ione of the great Japanese TT's ever.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R.
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I myself expressed a keen interest in the Japanese Market for DD TT's of which the GT 2000 was on my list, they were commonly seen and always from sale images looking in very nice condition. I have duplicate and triplicate TT's of the models I did import , and no longer regret not importing the GT 2000 for Bearing Modifications, other Modifications, to be followed by non-modded / modded GT2000 Demo's. I would recommend the 2000X but this will be towards $2.5K+. During my time of importing these were $800-$1500 purchases. As a design, it is safe to say the GT 2000 is the Godfather of the Kaneda designs seen today, where the Motor Drive/Stator is directly attached to the structure that is now a Plinth-Chassis. (Can't but help think Panzerholz will night and day transform for the better, the original Plinth - Chassis) Also, if you become an owner, do know there are Phosphor Bronze Platters to be found for sale and a YOP-1 standalone PS and a Phosphor Bronze Vacuum Platter Mat YDS-1. If I did purchase, I do know as a sale item in the UK, I will have made substantial appreciation, if I could let go of being a hoarder and cleared out. A friend has been a die hard user of BD TT's until a few years ago. They owned a substantially (Linn Spec' upgraded) Linn LP12 and a substantially modified TD 125. One experience of a substantially modified (Bearing Assembly - Speed Stability) DD TT which was loaned, to be used on their system, was the influence instrumental in the individual replacing their BD TT's with a SP10 R. DD TT's do have their admirers and advocates.
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Pindac, thanks for the response. A few thoughts: - Its sounds like you are a big fan of the GT-2000, but decided to go with some other tables. I am curious as to what they are, and why you decided against the Yamaha. You mentioned something about bearing modifications and other mods, but I'm not really sure what you mean. -GT 2000X would be nice, but out of my price range for now. A GT-2000 is more realistic for me in the 1400-1500 range without cartridge. -I am aware of the upgrades available that you mentioned. The platter is insanely expensive. The YOP is around 1k and I haven;t found the vacuum platter mat anywhere, and I'm not really sure what it does. Lets not also forget that huge iron base which is another add on. -Regarding BD vs DD, when it comes to a higher end vintage turntable, I think I could be happy with either. Especially with the Yamaha. |
I owned a Thorens TD-124, a great TT. I highly recommend one if it great shape, re-conditioned .... I have had several wood bases made for several TD-125 someone knowledgeable owns. I am not impressed with what I see/feel , I cannot imagine it could produce the solidity that the TD-124's heavy platter does: but I have never heard one. Never heard a GT-2000, always impressed with all details I read about. The link at vintage knob gives info on several variations, take your time, clarify what you might buy, OR, wait for another specific version to pop up. You may need a 100v/120v transformer, like I do for my JVC TT81. A small transformer, as long as decent quality works well, no hum, no need to get some big expensive one. amazon has one for $40. delivered, VCT VT-200J |
elliottbnewcombjr and lewm,Thanks for the insight. It would be nice to have a YOP-1 clone, but I think they are hard to come by. In lieu of that, I was looking for step down transformer advice. Nice to know its a cheap and generic solution. I'm in the middle of negotiating for an "Excellent" GT-2000. I should be able to get it at $1400. I'm a bit nervous dropping that kind of cash for a transaction like this. If I bite the bullet, fingers crossed that it arrives well packed and representative of the pics. And if something goes wrong that reimbursement is not a nightmare (buyer pays return shipping, but I am likely covered by eBay protection.) |
"pretty great to have". Can you define pretty great? So far as I know it's just a bunch of extra capacitors to filter the DC that drives the motor. You could build such an add on with modern capacitors for under $50, and the greatest expense would be for the box and the connectors to the main PS. What have you heard is improved or made better by the YOP1? I certainly could be mistaken as to the function. Incidentally, if memory serves, they are way less than $1000 on Japan Yahoo. Search on hifi Shark, which will direct you to ones for sale on Japan Yahoo. |
Yeah, I probably should have been more descriptive. From what I have read, folks universally report a noticeably improved quality in sound with the YOP 1. Plus the ability to bypass a step down converter. I would have to let someone with experience chime in to add more detail. I doubt I could build one myself. Apparently there were very good generic versions out there for much cheaper than I have seen, but they seem to be scarce now. I'll be sure to check these out on Japan Yahoo like you mentioned, just to see what going prices are |
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@brecchi it looks like I have had a post corrupted, I will deal with the missing content on another visit. |
@brecchi : I think that you don't to add nothing to the stock GT 2000 but an owner of tha TT as @teo_audio can really put a true ligth here for you.
R. |
I can't add the Vintage Knob Link for the GT 2000, there is useful info on there to help you see less obscure info. Everything you are expressing a interest in will be found in the Link. There is also a very fair priced at present Spare Plinth and Patter. I would not omit the idea of a Stacked Platter or adding a more modern material to be used with a original Plinth with the intention to be a improvement to the Structural Properties.
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If you looking at the link, next to Currency you will see the recommended Tab, choose High to Low, you will see options that might just change your mind. As I am very familiar with buying into Vintage DD TT's, the item I am going to show you in the link is one well worthwhile not overlooking, to find such parts for other TT;s has proved to be a very long search period and not all owned TT's have such a set of Spares in place for them, it would be a cannibalisation of a duplicate TT, which is the last thing wanted. Take Heed, A selection of readily available parts such as these may serve you very well further down the line. The Parts referred to also enables the option for further down the line, to have a Bearing Overhaul carried out to be used as a comparison to the stock version, this need not be too expensive, when the correct support is found, but as a end result should quite easily show the design has the capability to immediately supersede what is already in use. https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/japan/en/auction/yahoo/input/s1127489738/ |
Audiogon is becoming very difficult to work with, their is almost a censorship in place to helping others, when a contributor is attempting to add links. Valuable posts for a OP with links attached are being thrown out regularly, maybe it is time to leave, as I am not in the forum to be controlled buy a Bot of some type. I have just been rejected a post that clearly shows in the Link, that excessive sideways movement of the Platter Bearing Spindle will be discovered on the Yamaha GT 2000. The Photo Evidence also showed what I would refer to as a catastrophic failure of the Bearings Spindle Housing - Sump Cap Thrust Interface. This Catastrophic Failure could be a design issue or possibly as a result of a substantial impact occurring from the Spindle Ball and Cap. Eccentric Rotation is occurring when Spindle Sideways movement is evident and speed fluctuations will be discovered if a standalone strobe is utilised. The Thrust Interface Ball in this case seen was not scribe damaged, but this is most likely only because limited rotations have happened since the damage has been caused, the Sump Cap damage is seemingly able to enable a lubrication to leach out and become a quite dry environment that would be much better served if operating in a lubricated condition. Caveat Emptor when buying any type of TT that is from a vintage period. Any owner of a Vintage period TT, who is not of the opinion their TT's Platter Spindle Bearing assembly needs to be investigated for condition are deluding themselves. |
Pindac, You've mentioned on other occasions an issue with sideways movement of the spindle particularly with DD TTs, and I responded then (and now) that while I would never say "never", such a problem must be very very rare with DD turntables, since there is no side force on the spindle during use, in contrast to the case for BD and idler-drive turntables. I don't doubt the one case you cite, but that table must certainly have been abused in some way over the course of time. As to the idea to check the bearing housing of any used TT in general for wear and proper lubrication, I completely agree. |
I don't cite one case, I have had experience of more than one Platter Spindle Bearing with a very noticeable sideways movement. In conjunction with my own experiences I personally know others who have encountered it as well. My own interest has prompted me to look further and there are plenty of cases discussed on the internet. What is not so common is the most recent methodology I have adopted to be the corrective measure. The interest has lead onto other corrective measures to be developed and on the table to be put in place. |
Dear @brecchi : I gave you as an GT 2000 owner a gentleman that is not, my mistake. You need to contact with @theophile that's a way experienced owner of the Yamaha GT 2000 and he is an Agoner. Do it you a favor and wait to see if he chime here on what you need to know.
R. |
It is not always the sideways movement that is discovered, as stated on previous occasions. When taking the Bearing Assembly apart, the Ball at the Thrust Interface, usually discovered to be a loose fit, or interference fit in the base of the Platter Spindle are on occasion found to be damaged with a Spalling and even worse a Scribing on the Ball Surface. Either one of these being present is an indicator for Metal Particulate being free to migrate and is now included in the surfaces where there are interfaces between Sacrificial and Non-Sacrificial Materials. Such an environment has the capability to cause unwanted damage to the non-sacrificial material. It is an even worse condition when the housing is arid dry in relation to lubricant, loose and migrating metal particulate damage in this type of environment will need substantial skills to correct the damages being witnessed. Again, it is each to their own, if the want of an individual is to use a $2K to $5K Cart' on TT, knowing it has such a condition, or potentially has such a condition, then that for me is just fine. |
Suffice to say that sideways movement, manifesting as platter wobble or run-out would be unusual in a high quality vintage DD turntable. No one doubts that the bearing of such a TT should be evaluated for excessive wear and serviced after purchase. I have had six higher end DD TTs, four of which are up and running in my systems (two Technics SP10 Mk2, one Mk3, one Denon DP80, one Victor TT101, and one Kenwood L07D). I’ve not seen a problem with bearings that required machining or replacing the entire structure. In nearly all cases, I have had to clean the bearing well and replace the lubricant, but no bearing assembly was bone dry upon receipt. Guess I am lucky. For me, the most common problem with a vintage DD TT is electronic in nature. Both my DP80 and my TT101 were acting funky when I bought them, but the late great Bill Thalmann fixed the DP80, once I found the necessary integrated circuit on line, and JP Jones fixed my TT101. I think my DP80 was run on 120V by its previous owner, when it wants 100V. That was not good for it. |
I am in no way accusing the Vintage TT of any drive type as being a bad buy. I am suggesting that when one is considering purchasing one there operational issues that will be discovered, but not in all cases. One of my SP10 MK II's needed quite a thorough investigation to discover the electronics fault, but I don't usually refer to this, as the condition it was bought in for a pittance, meant what was discovered wrong with it was a result, as the parts and repair once known was proven to be straight forward for the SP10 Guru who is a friend. The OP is looking to spend over a $1K, I think the risk is for much less monies a TT can Pbe bought that has very similar operational issues. For a little more monies a Batch of Spare Parts are available if Won. I have gone to the extremes of duplicate and triplicate TT's to ensure the Spares are readily available if other means are not suitable to repair. The OP is looking for their Dream Table, well at present that is fantastical as all info is off pictures, ones opinions or a Article featuring Info about the TT. 'The proof of the Pudding is in the Eating' - Caveat Emptor I am happy to inform the OP, there is very good things to come, 'but', a little more might be required to get to that place. |
Hello Everyone, Just wanted to chime in as I haven;t responded in a bit. Not too much more to add other than I've read all the posts carefully (thanks for the detailed responses lewm and pindac) and I'm taking everything into account. As it stands, I'm pretty sold on getting GT-2000 fro Unisound. I'm in talks with them now on eBay. I'm not 100% sure how shipping would work if I won a bid on the From Japan/Yahoo website. It almost seems like From Japan takes over the shipping for all sellers or something, and its also hard to find out how much it costs to ship internationally. |
It is very easy to work out shipping, there is a small tool bar on the left side of the screen with a middle of three tool prompts looking like a calculator, this is the tool to work out the Shipping, but is is weight dependent, as a Timber Plinth TT is much Less Weight than a Lead Plinth or Resin Plinth. Also the GT 2000 can be found with a 6Kg Plinth or a 18Kg Plinth. Adding the YOP-1 standalone PS and a Phosphor Bronze Vacuum Platter Mat YDS-1 (4.5Kg) and any spare parts found will most likely add up to 10-15Kg to the Package. I have bought TT's with all Plinth Types and the Chassis Motor Only, obviously the Chassis Motor only will be the cheapest to ship followed by the Timber Plinth and then what is the next in the weight class. I have worked out a 100000 Yen purchase - Shipped to the US, as a 30Kg (66lbs) - 24" x 24" x 8" Package with the shipping costs listed below. I always add 25% to a Purchase Price to cover any import levy's added in the UK, I don't know about Imports Levy's on US imports. You can't see under the hood in a Photo, and are at the mercy of another's honesty, or lack of experience in a TT's maintenance and needs to function optimally. One individuals works OK, as a description, is in comparison potentially the antithesis of another's, where it is stating the same device is needing serious surgery.
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p.s Be very clear to any individual shipping, that the Platter Must be removed and Packed as a Separate Part in the Transport Package. Not many will remove the Tonearm, a cheaper option and safer option might be to buy a TT without a Tonearm, this will remove the risk of receiving a damaged TA, but also remove the option for a potential TA resale. If one really wants the TA that is mounted, then again very clear requests must be made for how the Tonearm is to be protected for the shipping. I have no recollection of receiving a TT with TA attached I have a interest in. |
I saw this thread when it first appeared. At that time due to some problem on the part of Audiogon I was unable to sign in and reply to postings. Obviously that has been resolved for a few months but I forgot about this thread. I'm a little stunned at the misinformation on this thread. A few years ago the website Liquid Audio, a West Australian repair and refurb technician, published an article in June 2021 about a GT 2000 that they had received titled "Yamaha GT-2000 Turntable Service". Mike(who is Liquid Audio) commented that there was play in the motor bearing of this particular GT 2000. Mike investigated further and upon removal of the thrust pad from the bottom of the bearing reported that the plastic flange on the thrust pad exhibited a crack. Mike surmised in the article that the turntable had probably been dropped with the platter in place. Yamaha in the Japanese langauage only manual to the GT 2000 displayed a prominant warning that the platter was never to be removed without using the platter lifting tools(basically eye-bolts) for risk of damaging the bearing. Think about that. A prominant warning(yes it said "Warning" ) placed at the top of the first page of the owner's manual. Just about removing and reinstalling the platter. Due to the optional 40 pound platter for the GT 2000, the bearing had to be rated to carry that load or else the optional platter would destroy the bearing. The Victor Corp engineers who developed the GT 2000 motor took a lot of time(and research) developing a motor bearing which did meet their noise and durability targets. It is a quality motor and bearing worthy of a flagship product. However, all of that goes out the window if the bearing has been damaged. Hence the prominant warning given by Yamaha about proper preventative procedure pertaining precisely per platter placement. Mike at Liquid Audio was inspecting a damaged GT 2000. His comments on the deck should be seen to reflect that fact. Mentioning a 'bearing play issue" when talking about the GT 2000 without putting that in context is misleading. Other gems in this thread include:
"Also, if you become an owner, do know there are Phosphor Bronze Platters to be found for sale and a YOP-1 standalone PS and a Phosphor Bronze Vacuum Platter Mat YDS-1. " The vacuum platter mat was essentially the Audio Technica Vaccum Platter Mat. Which contained zero Phosphor Bronze.
" I can't add the Vintage Knob Link for the GT 2000, there is useful info on there to help you see less obscure info." The Vintage Knob write-up about the Yamaha GT-2000 contains one very large error. It stated that the uprated bearing for the Yamaha GT 2000X(a different turntable derived from the GT 2000)was done to enable the use of the 40 pound optional platter. That is incorrect on the part of The Vintage Knob site. The GT 2000 from its introduction in 1982 offered the option of using the 40 pound gunmetal platter. All GT 2000 models(GT-2000/GT 2000L/GT 2000X) were designed to utilise the optional 40 pound platter. Not just the GT-2000X. The Vintage Knob got that wrong and as it goes on the internet, mistakes persist and get quoted forever. "Also the GT 2000 can be found with a 6Kg Plinth or a 18Kg Plinth." I'll put this one down to a brainfart from the poster. If one substitutes the words platter for the words plinth in that sentence, the entire thing makes sense. So, in summation: If you have bearing play in a Yamaha GT 2000, it has been damaged. If you rely on The Vintage Knob write up about the GT 2000 be aware that the 40 pound platter can be used on all GT 2000 models. No GT 2000 model has a ball in the motor bearing. Liquid Audio site June 2021 were dealing with a damaged GT 2000 The optional vaccum mat is not phosphor bronze. There is a standard platter of 6.5Kg and an optional platter of 18Kg. There is no 6Kg plinth nor an optional 18Kg plinth. Audiogon seems to be the place where misinformation about the GT 2000 comes to live. It should not be so. I hope this goes some way to clarify. Brecchi decided to get a different turntable eventually. I hope that he didn't have any problems. Thank you to all who read and consider this post.
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