Would love some feedback / Denon DL-S1 / phono match / cart recomendations

The ''stylus fear'' and the ''level of ignorance''. My advice is to

first read what J. Carr wrote about ''carts repair''. The least

problem by comparison with cantilever and suspension change

is the stylus only exchange. Gluing the stylus in the existing

cantilever is more difficult than gluing the cantilever/stylus combo

on the so called ''joint (aluminum) pipe''. My friend Axel Schurholz

with + 40 years experience refused to do this job anymore. Two

years earlier he glued his best Shibata in my Blue Oasis for 200

euro. The usual boron/ Shibata combo cost 500 euro. We all have

heard about problems with (boron) cantilevers supply but even

bigger problem for the retippers is to get the right ''dampers''.

EMT is typical manufacturer who still need to solve this problem.

Their dampers are still worthless. About coils we can be short.

No retipper is willing to mess with coils. So defective coils are

the ''worst case scenario'' by second hand carts.

The ''Expert stylus'' site is not very informative but they also produce

styli. They produced those ''Stanton  styli''. My guess is that they

also produce Replicant for Ortofon. Anyway one can get their

''Paratrace'' ( a version of micro ridge)  stylus for about 180 GBP.

 This work (gluing the stylus in the cantilever) can only be done by

''masters'' because this work presuppose special skills. A cart

manufacturer would need to hire such person for this kind of work.

No wonder no manufacturer does this work. They prefer exchange

 of the whole generator instead. Those are produced as separate

parts and installed in different bodies (say Koetsu). My Koetsu

Rosewood Signature was ''refurbished'' this way but for 2200 euro.

 For ''big spenders'' who don't care about money, like some

Mexicans, this is obviously of no interest whatever. So such persons

 recommend ''refurbishing'' by the manufacturer. So in order to make

 their point they compare the situation with an Ferarri. Whatever may

 be defective one would be stupid to let ,say , some American garage

 to do the job but should post his car to Italy to the ''real 

manufacturer'' for ''refurbishing''.

Well it is easy to state that others are stupid , ignorant, have low

level learning curve, etc. ''qualifications''  but as one of our members

 just advised : ''look in the mirror man''  .

chakster - that Luxman is awesome looking - never heard of it or seen it before - cool table and I will remember it and keep on the look out for one but that would have caught my eye because it looks amazing.

The question ''what kind of phono-pre do I need for the cart

x '' in the sense of the amplification value assumes a phono-

pre for just one cart. For the LO (low output) carts the advice is

''about 70 dB''. But what about more carts than just one?

There may be carts with higher output than ''LO''. Say above

0,3 mV. Well there are phono-pres with more than just one

amplification stage. I own Basis Exclusive with 4 amplification

stages as well Klyne 7 PX3.5 with also 4 amplification stages.

Both manuals advice the use of the lowest amplification stage

sufficient  for the given cart. Say 60 dB for 0.4 mV output.

The reason for this advice is that the higher the amplification

the higher the distortions. The curious thing by Klyne is the fact

that there is one more amplification stage which is not even

mentioned in the manual. Why? Probably because Klyne thought

that the distortion by this amplification is not acceptable for his

phono-pre. So he was satisfy with 63 dB. For those who own this

phono-pre switches 1,2,3,4 and 5 should be put ON to get 67 dB

amplification. One will not find those ''values'' in the user manual.

Well it seems obvious why people use SUT's for the (very) Low

output carts. Say bellow 0.2 mV.

Enjoyed seeing you and hearing your system again. A remarkable improvement to your great system from my last visit. I am very pleased with the further improvements from today’s goodies we installed. Particularly fun for me to hear the lower bass definition and the recording venue soundstage space that the bass revealed.

I have to agree with Raul on this one . I have been trying out different  setups with my Nagoka jewel tone ribbon cartridge @  .04mv and my new Vallab LCR -1 Phono stage . I first ran the my jewel tone through my Techniques SH305S SUT @    3 Ohm  and the phono stage set to 52db .
Then I took the SUT out of the chain set the gain on the Vallab to 72db and load to 46 Ohm . The detail improved as well as the sound stage .With the SUT in the system it had more warmth to its presentation and less air .  

@fsmithjack Why did you lose interest in the Feikert? That has a more sophisticated drive system than the VPI, and armboard options that accommodate pretty much any tonearm including 12".

@chakster +1 Luxman PD-444, among of my favs. However it sounds like the OP is not interested in vintage at this time. Too bad, as some of those DD models sound superb, and their technology is beyond the grasp of most current TT manufacturers.

Anyhow, VPI is a safe choice. 

I tried for a while and looked and if had someone to give me some good ideas I would have tried another table. I didn’t want a Rega or Music Hall or Project or any of the older Technics or Thorens or Denons. I wanted something kind of modern and not super hard to use.

I like assumptions to be made explicit such that we can see

on what grounds the conclusions are made.

My assumptions regarding SUT are :

1. The inductance  and impedance of both need to

     correspond.

2. The SUT's are divided in 3 ''categories'': L,M and H.

    There is no exact or precise  information about the

    ''impedance range'' of each. Say 2-8 Ohms for Low;

     8- 15 (?) for M and above 15 for H.

      Because the usual approach is to search for the

     'right SUT'' for our specific MC cart this ''impedance

      matching'' is a kind of ''hit and miss'' affair .

3.   What about inductance? I have no idea about inductance

      of  any of my + 30 MC carts. How then should I search

      for the ''corresponding inductance''?

 Assuming that designers by Denon know the theory they

  have designed  DL-S1 to correspond with AU-S1 SUT.

So probably one will get a ''killer combo'' for about $2000.

With an decent MM phono-pre one does not need to buy

ridiculous expensive MC phono-pre as added advantage.