Wow, you've been playing with this for a while!
I haven't read all of the posts involving potential solutions so forgive me if I miss the mark by a mile. If your latest photos reflect your present speaker set up, and I have read your comments correctly, your speakers are seven feet apart and your listening chair is only 4 ft back. I would think that first reflection points on the side walls are not an issue and neither diffusion nor deadening wall treatments would help you much, if at all.
You didn't ask, but when I look at your photos, what stikes me initially as being a potential problem which will screw up imaging is listening to the speakers from 4ft away. Something closer to an equallateral triangle would be much better. Move your chair back to 7 ft or move the speakers closer together. Personally I'd try to get the listening position further back if you can. Perhaps a combo of both. In theory at least, you would get a better centerfill and solidify pin point imaging (which is what is necessary for great depth of image). In theory!
Good luck.
FWIW. |
What's behind your chair? Diffusion works best on the back wall behind your chair. I see you have some GIK 244 panels. How did you arrive at those positions? Did you experiment with a lot of different positions or just pick the spots that seemed right?
I've been using a combination of 242,244, monster panels, and Acoustical Solution diffusers. I've done a lot of moving panels around the last six months to reach a balance that I feel is right. I think you need to try many different panel placement options.
From your photos, I would start with one of the 244 panels centered on the frt wall behind the speakers, move the other 244 panel to the back wall. It also looks like you have a 244 panel on the ceiling between the speakers. I tried a 242 panel hung like a cloud and it lasted only a week before I removed it due to a reduction in acoustic space. Maybe remove the ceiling panel and try a thinner panel there or a diffusor. |
Thanks for the replies
A few corrections
I have my speakers approx 6 10" feet apart in an equalateral triangle
My listening chair is 4 feet from the back wall
Sorry if that wasn't clear in my systems page
I don't have any ceiling treatments |
Is that just a drop down in the ceiling that I see in the photo of your speakers from head-on? |
Yes it is
To answer your other question
I experimented quite a bit with different placements
GIK acoustics also worked with me on the room and placement options |
Any other opinions on how to increase depth and soundstaging with my current speaker positioning
Is diffusion the answer ? |
Musicfile, I suggest you ask Bruce or Brian at GIK. I have always heard that diffusion needs a larger space to work, but I'm no expert. YOu can post a question here and expect a quick reply from someone at GIK or Ethan from RealTraps. Acoustics Circle |
My answer may have been inappropriate due to my misunderstanding. IMHO, great depth of image (pin point imaging) can exist only when you have achieved optimum resolution in equipment, room and set up. (My biggest improvement in depth of image came with boxes with SOTA tweeters).
Diffusion could help your sound if placed on the wall behind your chair. Although I doubt it, it might even help on the side walls as well. So could some deadening materiel. The frequencies that bring depth of image to life are the high frequencies so you can (sorta) replicate the effects of using expensive materiels by simply hanging some heavy materiels on the wall(s) temporarily and see what happens. If you get no change at all in depth of image then you can figure you are barking up the wrong tree.
FWIW. It is hard to fine tune a system over the internet. :-) |
musicfile, I have a smaller room that I use Michael Green Roomtunes in. I DON'T have the type of investment that you have but.... diffusion has helped me ALOT thru the use of 48" standers. Now I use Apogee Slant 6 speakers and have them set up much like you myself, here are acouple of tricks tthat have helped me as I've continued to adjust thru the years. With free standers I am able to adjust more freely but I use the diffusion side of the panels (3) on the front wall behind the speakers and (1) on the rear wall. Small (and I do mean small!) adjustments to angles you hear a big difference with (as small as 1/16"). My panels are off set in distances as well with 2 forming a corner and 1 in the corner of the front wall but not equal from the placement behind the L & R speakers. My 3rd panel is only 18" away from the rear wall yet 5' away from the corner and 2.5' from perpindicular with my listening chair. I also use 4 Corner Tunes to kill the slap echo. I use a rediculously cheap tuning control adapted from Marigo's Tuning Dots that work eerily well! When I had gone to the sight (Marigo) it told you how & where to place dots for tuning of the speakers. Using U.S. Quarters (for me) on the base of the speakers I adjust the distance from the OUTSIDE EDGE to adjust the focus and width of the presentation and again TINY ADJUSTMENTS make huge differences. Marigo suggested a starting point of 1/2" from the outside corners inward and then adjusting from there. For my $1.50 investment I have blind tested many people in query of the differences and in all cases THEY COULD HEAR THEM, either the staging collasped or was too diffused and lacked the definition clarity, but get it right and it saves hours worth of time and it's super easy adjusting as well. I hope this also helps with your search and as well pay attention to vibration control with your rig even if on a concrete floor or base becuse it will pay dividends like you haven't heard as well. Good Luck :) |
I would put 2 fake ficus trees side by side right in front of the TV. Move them to the side when you want to watch. |
Ah onemug, you gotta love a skeptic! :) |
Thanks all for your replies
Dan Ed I appreciate your suggestions Brian at GIK has been very helpful and asked for his recommendation on many occasions trying to get opinions of others at the same time
Newbie I will try a few of your suggestions
Onemug very interesting what does the ficus tree in this postion accomplish can you expand on this |
Diffusion could help your sound if placed on the wall behind your chair. Although I doubt it, it might even help on the side walls as well. Diffusion on side walls will help in soundstaging and depth. However, it will depend on how close your speakers are to the side walls. For small rooms with the speakers close to side walls, the effect will be larger. In your case whereby the side walls are further away from the speakers, the effect may not be too substantial though. Anyway you can't place anything on your left wall since there is a door there. The standard reply from Ethan is to place absorption at first and 2nd reflection points and diffusion everywhere else. I remember reading this somewhere in the forums or his website. |
Musicfile,
If you put a cotton blanket over your tv, you will have a certain sound. A wool blanket will give you another. Different materials absorb and reflect different frequencies. People roll tubes for a different flavor, I suppose you could roll blankets. (I'm half serious here).
Ficus trees have alot of tiny leaves that I think would help the center fill your speakers are trying to do.
As a side benefit, you could impress people with the quality of your tv picture. Just say "Look how real those trees look". :-)
Rsjm80, I do love skeptics. I keep them in a skeptic tank. |
Onemug
I may try some ficus trees behind the speakers in front of the tv may be difficult
Now if I was a bachelor anything goes
Thanks for helping out |
Musicfile,
The fake ficus is light and easy to move. I bet you could move them as fast as taking the blanket on and off.
Let your wife pick them out, they don't have to be that big. I bet she will like them more than the blanket.
Have fun. |
