12-12-14: Dvavc
Hey, Agear, Couple of month passed.) So, what sup doc, did you get it? Should I dispose my analog rig and buy Lampizator?)))
BTW, i've heard it once at the show, but you know the sound of the show
plus different transport speakers etc
Hence, I couldnt tell anything.( Hey Dvavc, thanks for circling back. Did you hear the L7 at the NY show? If so, you heard it with my current speakers (Mosaic Audio Illuminations). Those speakers suck for the first 3-4 months due to the torturous nature of the break in cycle of their custom inductors. Think thin and brittle with no bass. The pair at that show were not broken in at all and thus were a poor representation of both the speaker and the dac. I received the dac about 2 months ago. UPS thrashed it, and it needed to be salvaged back in Poland. From my brief exposure to it (on Illuminations that are broken in and in a dedicated sound room), it delivered an "analog" presentation with fluidity and fullness that should make most vinyl heads happy. I have heard from several L7 owners that it is comparable to vinyl. I do not own a dedicated vinyl rig and thus cannot offer a side by side comparison. If you are in NY, there are multiple owners of that dac. Worth a listen in a rig that is properly dialed in. |
Hey, Agear, Couple of month passed.) So, what sup doc, did you get it? Should I dispose my analog rig and buy Lampizator?)))
BTW, i've heard it once at the show, but you know the sound of the show
plus different transport speakers etc
Hence, I couldnt tell anything.( |
Dvavc, I will let you know in about 2-3 months when I get it. I agree about LPs, but I would like to own both to allow access to music I enjoy. I too have been scratching around for a "miracle dac" as you say. We will see. I was eyeballing the Reiymo CDP a few years back. Fairly Gucci stuff. I cannot speak to the build quality of the big7. Are you in the US? |
Agear, Have you heard it by yourself? I'm also mostly listen to LP's, but inconvenience of flipping it every 15 minutes), shortage of available records and thereof price of some of them vs. convenience and availability (even for free;~) from internet) of digital domain, makes me keep searching for some miracle DAC. I've read threads (for whatever they worth) about how analog L-7 is, but if i could of bring it home and a-b it to my Remyo...) Built quality vs. price also makes me wonder ). |
Dvavc, it was a decision based mostly on intuition. I know it's a sacrilegious thing for an audiophile to admit that, but it's true. I am at heart an "analog guy," and the L7 is, by all reports, one of the closest analogs of analog in the digital domain.
I am also lazy. In my 20s, I loved playing IT boy and fiddling. Now, with young kids and a busy life, I have zero interest. If you spend any amount of time on the NOS-1 threads, you will know what I mean by this disinclination.
The shootout in Atlanta has not materialized. It still might, but frankly, at this point, I have little desire to attend.
On a side note,I am actively researching turntables, and am looking at snagging a Triangle table as well to round out and complete my front end. I know this is contradictory in light of my comments about the Phasure, but I am continually drawn to the sound of vinyl. It was ironically my primary source as a young kid and preteen, and I am looking to return to my musical roots. |
So, what about Lampizator vs. NOS-1. Have anybody A-B them yet? Agear, any spacfic reason why you decided on Lampizator vs. NOS-1? |
|
Lloyd, I am aiming to snag a Lampizator 7 when my CFO wifey allows me to do so..... |
"Lloyd, I was thinking about your digital front end and your intonations early in this thread about the old equipment itch. I think you should be very pleased with yourself. Digital front ends come and go like the wind in most systems. Few manufacturers make dacs that people seem to hold onto. Audionote and Zanden are two that come to mind. You have a fabulous foundation that is imminently tweakable and has made music for 6 years. Bravo. It is VERY hard to find digital that lays down down analog goodness in a realistic manner.
All that being said, the best dac I have "heard" is the Light Harmonic DaVinci. Sadly, the price is a little dear these days...
Agear "
Hi Agear,
Thanks for your kind words. I admit, the single greatest investment I have made in my system in the last 3 years has been growing my CD collection from 400 CDs to closer to 2,000. And loving it. I feel very fortunate indeed.
I have heard amazing things about Lampizator 7 and the fact that Lampizator, Light Harmonic have separate DACs internally for PCM vs DSD intrigues me, as more than one has said they find that no one solution fits all digital formats equally well. I know a few people who own Trinity DAC...sounding very very promising!
Good luck in your search and please keep us posted!! |
I found this link of the Trinity Dac, showing an inside photo. Is this some sort of speculation with the internals of the Trinity DAC, especially @ 40k Euro? Thanks! Alex Peychev |
I found this link of the Trinity Dac, showing an inside photo. |
'Agear, I checked into the ML3 Reference speakers, they seem dead serious and also reminded me of Dale's offerings.'
They are dead serious all right.
But for about the same money they have been surpassed by the Limited. I live near the maker and he is going to try and raise the performance of the ML3 - but its going to be hard because one of the the reasons for the Limited's performance is its lined with 1/4 inch copper and has 1 inch thick cast iron bracing all over the place inside - each speakers weight is about 41kg - with stands each speaker is over 80kg. Duplicating that in a speaker the size of the ML3 is pretty much impossible at a realistic cost.
However I have been conned by the maker into getting a brand new speaker he is working on that uses the 6 inch Seas Magnesium cone and Morel Supreme tweeter. It will have a slightly smaller internal volume for even deeper bass - hence it will be more rigid again. The crossover will be in a separate section at the back, and it will have a trapezoidal shape to break up internal standing waves.
I can report on how it sounds when its built.
But its a big problem for guys outside Australia because they will have Bucklies of hearing it - unless of course you want to take a punt and fly out to the Gold Coast to hear it. Couple it with a bit of a holiday.
Thanks
Bill |
"The Best" is a constantly evolving target. Stereophile Magazine would have us believe it is the $108,000 dCS Vivaldi stack. |
Yes indeed Pat. You have some sweet speakers yourself!
The Atlanta Phasure/L7 or L4 Lampi shootout will be forthcoming...:) |
Agear, I checked into the ML3 Reference speakers, they seem dead serious and also reminded me of Dale's offerings.
Too bad the Trinity couldn't be in the shootout against the Lampy (I'm kinda sorry I brought it up here due to the crazy price and lack of availability) maybe another time. |
Speaking of the world's best dac, the shootout between the Lampizator L7 and Trinity dac never took place as a "demo" unit was unavailable. I do understand from a business perspective that having a dac that costs substantially less being competitive is not good. Comparing it to a dcs stack is a "safer" comparison....:) |
Hi Agear,
Well that's very encouraging to hear, Robert has told me how good your room and system are, so the "digital sucks" just made no sense to me. My feeling was what a waste of money and time if that's your end result (how sad that'd be). Glad to know that isn't the case.
I agree that the recording quality is the primary limitation. Pop and rock seem to suffer the most. My fare overwhelming is jazz and this genre is recorded much better and is very close to a "good" vinyl LP and often equal or better(it depends on variables involved). I've done enough comparisons with high quality digital and
analog systems to say this with confidence(I can really enjoy either). I can bounce between both
during a listening seseion with no problem if both formats are done
properly. Just my experience and certainly others will disagree.
I looking forward to hearing the Lampizator -Pitcher room in a few days. Curious how it will sound compared to the Trinity set up I'll also listen to while there.
Charles, |
'Can you do an experiment? Convert some of your favorite PCM files to DSD64 or DSD128 using JRiver 19 Media Center, as I feel their PCM to DSD modulator is superb. Once done, feed the resulting DSD files through your MPD-3 and see what happens against your PCM DAC playing the same PCM files?'
I haven't got time for that right now - next few weeks here in Australia is Cricket and Tennis season and my time will be taken up with that.
But from my experience I think you are correct - it would likely improve things quite a bit.
What I do know of is experiments done with a Killer DAC where the output of a master tape was converted to DSD, then downsampled to 44.1 using some special software. There was a difference when played back via the Killer - but it was thought many wouldn't worry about it - it was that slight.
Thanks
Bill |
'Charles, most people who own SOTA vinyl and digital concurrently favor vinyl (Mike L. for example). Beyond that, people I trust who have nothing to sell still feel master tape is king. If digital works for you, great. Its a matter of goals and expectations. Its getting closer though as this and other threads indicate which is exciting.'
I sort of agree.
I was privy to the results of a little experiment where a rather good USB DAC was compared to a good vinyl system. The person doing it, and this is my view as well, thought the digital MURDERED the vinyl - much more life, detail and 'rightness' to my ears. The vinyl sounded dull and muffled. Guess what - to the total shock of the person doing the comparison about 50% preferred the vinyl, and 50% the digital. The exact areas the digital guys thought was way ahead - detail, and life was described by the vinyl brigade as a digital edge - what they called resolution and organic flow digital guys described as dull and lack of life.
The truth is not that digital or vinyl is better - it's rather we all lock onto different things.
I hasten to add this was not a uber expensive vinyl system - I have been assured by people whose ears I trust they can, and do, exceed the best digital.
But exactly how many have systems in that league?
Thanks
Bill |
Bill, the ML3 Reference speakers sound very interesting and evokes thoughts of Dale Pitcher's speakers. Once you hear a probably grounded box (aka no box), there is no going back.... |
Charles, my digital rig is very good but I will most likely be getting a L7 Lampizator. The issue with digital for me is by and large recording quality. You can listen to VanHalen on vinyl (which I did as a 12 yr old) while the digital version is garbage. Digital tends to pigeonhole the listener a little more and thus the existence of "audiophile" recordings, hi rez, DSD, etc.
I am also to some degree the prisoner of my OCD quest for that "live" sound. Pretty or pleasant sounding hifi puts me to sleep. My room or system delivers the closest I have heard to that sound in a home setting, and in that regard, it is a stunning achievement for Starsound. On the flip side, EVERY change is audible for better or for worse. I will get there though. What you will hear at CES will hopefully be a taste of the sort of "digital" that will inhabit my room in the not too distant future. |
I was asked about the zanden dac. in my opinion having heard all of the versions, I prefer the original. it had the classic tube sound and one could listen to any recording , regardless of quality, and still have a smile on your face. |
Agear,
With all the time, money and effort you have put in your system are you dissatisfied with your digital playback? I hope not. I'm constantly finding good sounding CDs to listen to. If you truly believe digital sucks you should consider going exclusively LP or R2R. Spending time on this forum it appears some just can't find lasting happiness with their systems regardless of the expenditure. Don't fall into that rut.
Charles, |
Charles, most people who own SOTA vinyl and digital concurrently favor vinyl (Mike L. for example). Beyond that, people I trust who have nothing to sell still feel master tape is king. If digital works for you, great. Its a matter of goals and expectations. Its getting closer though as this and other threads indicate which is exciting.
Good suggestions Alex. I would be interested to hear that outcome.... |
As someone who used a turn table for many happy years and still hears them in the systems of friends, digital doesn't "suck" at all. I listen to music long and often and enjoy it immensely and experience much emotional involvement. I'm in jazz clubs 3-4 times a month so I feel my ears certainly are use to natural sound. Neither analog or digital front ends fully capture the live acoustic experience I hear, but both can come close enough to be very satisfying. But I don't pursue a " perfect" sound rather I just want a reasonably organic character with realistic tone, body and harmonic beauty-honesty. I believe a good digital system delivers that these days. I avoid hifi sounding components like the plague.
Charles, |
Digital does indeed suck. There is always something ever so slightly askew. I don't own a vinyl rig, but in those escapist moments, my subconscious mind dreams of some big brass platter. A lot of the "solutions" for sale seem to fall short and somehow desecrate the music. Not just absence of fatigue but lifelike dynamics and energy. That is a razor's edge. Many NOS or tube dacs fails in that department. Reclockers fail. Upsampling fails. Hi rez and DSD fails. I will personally disagree as I have demonstrated at a recent audio show in Norway how vinyl recorded to DSD sounds exactly like the vinyl on A-B test. This actually shocked some hard-core vinyl loving audiophiles and reviewers. In the event of vinyl vs. digital shootout, I personally don't know of any other way, except using something recorded direct to disc/vinyl and direct to DSD, without additional mastering, usually done by different recording engineers. For example MFSL Patricia Barber "Night Club" 45rpm audiophile pressing was mastered by someone else and, in my opinion, sounds somewhat inferior to the MFSL SACD. This said, I use the vinyl/SACD bundle Bassface Trio Plays Gershwin by Stockfish. For me, with this bundle, I can really tell the difference between vinyl and digital. Best, Alex Peychev |
Thanks Bill for the detailed post. I look forward to hearing a formal report of the shootout down under. I share your sentiments about digital music reproduction. A recent Audioshark review of the Lumin transport put it best: Digital sucks. There, I said it. To be honest, I really dont want to dislike my digital because it is so convenient, but vinyl has always sounded better in my system. Those close to me know I have been on a DAC merry-go-round for several years now. I have cycled through so many DACs that Ive lost count and too embarrassed to say, but it is somewhere around 20. In that time, I have had the pleasure of owning or trying some wonderful sounding DACs, but in the end, they always drove me back to vinyl as my preferred source.
To me, computer audio has always produced this edge, this hyper resolving presentation which often creates listener fatigue. Sonic characteristics which have always sent me running for my turntable.
In addition, with computer audio you have the added frustration and expense of dealing with a Windows PC or Mac. As someone who works on a computer all day, the last thing I want to be bothered with in my listening room is virus scans, fighting adware, phishing attacks or worrying about the latest software update or new version of the operating systems. I just want to listen. Digital does indeed suck. There is always something ever so slightly askew. I don't own a vinyl rig, but in those escapist moments, my subconscious mind dreams of some big brass platter. A lot of the "solutions" for sale seem to fall short and somehow desecrate the music. Not just absence of fatigue but lifelike dynamics and energy. That is a razor's edge. Many NOS or tube dacs fails in that department. Reclockers fail. Upsampling fails. Hi rez and DSD fails. Your observations about transports are also spot on. I have told people (and myself) that the transport game is as hard as the dac element. I am interested to see where that all goes in the next 2-3 years with the entrance of Sony back into the game, Lumin, etc. It does seem like there are a lot of promising pieces coming down the pike. The Trinity dac is making waves over at Audioexotics: (http://www.audioexotics.hk/index.php?option=com_simplestforum&view=postlist&forumId=1&parentId=10845&topic=true&Itemid=53) where it panned a dcd stack. Phasure is starting to get more traction and formal exposure in the US is growing (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/whos-tried-phasure-nos1-digital-analogue-converter-18457/). We have a shootout planned with the Lampizator in Atlanta in late Jan/early Feb. There is also a gentleman in Hong Kong who now owns Phasure, a Lampi L5 with DSD, and a DCS stack. A formal shootout is still pending. The Lampizator L7 is making waves in Hong Kong (http://www.review33.com/m/forum_msg.php?db=1&tstart=0&s=&topic=47121019144020&start=20&sort=&number=59) and has been competitive with big dollar tables. We are still waiting for a comparison with the Trinity. Finally, your description of the Killer dac sounds.....killer. I am a fan of that chip. DDDAC, a DIY outfit from German (http://www.dddac.de), made quite a splash with their kit based on that chip (and more recently on the 1794). People have traded in big dollar rigs for those cheap kits. The report is that it sounds like music and NOT digital. I look forward to hearing how this whole things shapes up. |
Bill,
The Killer DAC sounds like something that I'd really enjoy. A component with one purpose, getting to the core of music's beauty, natural, realistic tone, vibrancy, harmonic richness and will convey the deep emotion of music. So much emphasis today seems directed toward the analytical hifi, ultra detailed, audiophile checkbox sound, it's very contrived and soul less to my ears.
The Killer DAC builder apparently loves and respects the art of music and the talent/efforts of the musicians.
Charles, |
OK - I also took on over my Playback Designs MPD3, which, prior to the Phasure, was the best DAC I had heard via DSD In my experience, PCM to DSD converters are very tricky and can vary dramatically when it comes to sound quality. Can you do an experiment? Convert some of your favorite PCM files to DSD64 or DSD128 using JRiver 19 Media Center, as I feel their PCM to DSD modulator is superb. Once done, feed the resulting DSD files through your MPD-3 and see what happens against your PCM DAC playing the same PCM files? Best wishes, Alex Peychev |
Once again Bill, very insightful and informative post. |
Just to add spice to this my Killer DAC was just completed yesterday and I went over to hear it at the place of the person that made it for me - he posts under the name of Rawl where I am in Australia.
This is a very special hand built DAC with a cult following here in Australia. It uses the legendary Phillips TDA1541 DAC chips and all parts, even the transformer, are hand built and made specifically for the DAC. Even each piece of wire is hand selected.
This DAC was at a shootout with a number of other DAC's, but it came down to two - a DCS Stack and this DAC. The DCS was considered more Hi Fi with detail, speed etc etc - but the Killer was much more captivating and 'real' sounding - it was most peoples preference.
When I arrived Rawl had his uber heavily upgraded Wadia transport running via I2S into it playing Dianna Krall - Girl In The Other Room. Before saying anything else I want to emphasize this transport is wild - really low jitter custom modified Trichord clocks, totally battery powered, and other stuff that is quite likely even above the uber stuff in an Off-Ramp. This is no ordinary bit of gear. A number of people have compared it to an Off-Ramp and to their total shock it easily bested it - they switched over from computer audio because of that. BTW its the only transport I have heard that can do that - normally I find the Off-Ramp eats transports alive - no contest - especially my Off-Ramp which has a heavily modified power supply.
The amp was an upgraded VAC and speakers ML3 Reference, the same as mine. These speakers are fairly well known in Aus - but you guys may not know them. They are made by a guy that lives close to me and Rawl, and use 10 gauge air core inductors, the cabinet is lined with steel, and Duelund VSF Copper capacitors throughout.
Very full harmonically rich enveloping sound. This type of thing is what Rawl and other Killer DAC guys refer to as resolution - the thing that people preferred compared to the DCS. For me its a fuller richer sound - not extra resolution - I like it - but its different terminology than I use. I thought, yes it had the signature of other Killer's I had heard and I liked it right off.
Next up was via my Off-Ramp using I2S. My Off-Ramp also uses a heavily upgraded custom built power supply that makes a big difference over the switching supply Steve Nugent supplies with it. It has a switch that engages and disengages the earth - and we found one position significantly better than the other - much cleaner clearer sound so that's what we stuck with.
The difference was the Off-Ramp had greater detail, and better, tighter bass, but it lost a significant amount of the harmonic richness. It was a whiter, more bland sound. I preferred the transport, but I am not sure that would be everyone's preference. Knowing Killer DAC aficionados they would prefer the transport. Certainly Rawl much preferred it.
OK - I also took on over my Playback Designs MPD3, which, prior to the Phasure, was the best DAC I had heard via DSD. First up we played Harry Belefonte - Sylvie via PCM - OK - but to my ears the Killer was obviously better. This was expected - the PD is OK via PCM - but a number of other DAC's I pitted it against were better. Its real strength is DSD. So next was Sylvie via DSD. Immediately better - very live real and present. Now we are talking. Ok - what about the Off-Ramp via PCM into the Killer. Sorry PD guys - we have another DAC other than the Phasure that is better. It simply sounded richer and more life like.
We played a number tracks including some classical. But it was all basically the same - the Killer was clearly better than the PD - and the transport had a fuller, richer more enveloping sound - but the Off-Ramp better detail and bass.
The main hurdle is now past and the big DAC shootout with this, a PDX, a PD, and the Phasure is planned, and that should hopefully happen late January or early February. It should prove very interesting.
The speakers used in that shootout will be even above my speakers and those in this comparison - they use Duelund Cast, have external crossovers with a special star wiring scheme, and are lined with 1/4 inch copper and inch thick steel bracing all over the place - simply the best speakers I and a lot of people I know have heard - very very transparent - what you feed it it reproduces - ruthlessly.
Thanks
Bill |
'Bhobba, which PD dac was demoed? The 3 or the 5? According to everyone in the know, PCM is not its strong suite, so any comparison is strawmanish especially if you have no equivalent digital transport and software upstream. This seems to be one area where Peter and the Phasure dac seems to excel and pull ahead of the pack.'
It was the the 3 which I own, but the big DAC shootout I am arranging will hopefully be with their top of the line DAC.
Whoever told you the PCM of the PD is not that crash hot is correct - DSD into that DAC is way ahead. But I thought I was pretty clear - the comparison was DSD into the PD and PCM into the Phasure so it was strength to strength - and the Phasure was better.
Thanks
Bill |
|
Well said Alex. Can we infer then that the Phasure dac is not eating your dac alive? Are you using the all-important software and computer as a pre-ampless transport In my opinion, PCM1704-based DACs always have certain sound character, regardless of how the rest is designed. This said, comparing such DACs to my reference DSD-M converter is comparing apples to oranges. To simplify things, you can look at PCM as Digital and DSD as Analog. :-) The DSD-M does not have a built-in attenuator, so it needs a preamp. However, my HAS-M hybrid amplification system has attenuator built-in, so there is no need for additional preamp. Best wishes, Alex Peychev |
I couldn't agree more Agear, the are some longer term DAC's that still and always will make music! |
Lloyd, I was thinking about your digital front end and your intonations early in this thread about the old equipment itch. I think you should be very pleased with yourself. Digital front ends come and go like the wind in most systems. Few manufacturers make dacs that people seem to hold onto. Audionote and Zanden are two that come to mind. You have a fabulous foundation that is imminently tweakable and has made music for 6 years. Bravo. It is VERY hard to find digital that lays down down analog goodness in a realistic manner.
All that being said, the best dac I have "heard" is the Light Harmonic DaVinci. Sadly, the price is a little dear these days... |
Hi Agear,
Thanks for taking the time to share all of that...fascinating to read. If you do hear how those shootouts went in Asia, please post!!! There is a whole new generation of digital that is coming out which (imho) started with the Vivaldi and has started to combine the organic nature of certain DACS with the precise timing qualities of the most exacting DACs which some felt were a touch cold. ie, the best of both.
I am told Trinity is exactly in this position. I think people expect L7 to be there as well. Thanks for continuing to post! |
I just read this morning that the Phasure NOS 1 has a very similar architecture to the Trinity DAC. Quote from ACG at Whatsbestforum below:
"The Phasure NOS1 USB dac seems to use much of the same tech as the Trinity. Eight x PCM1704 and completely filterless (analogue or digital) running femto clocks. The Phasure relies on the computer software to upsample to 705 or 768 and to apply a special Arc prediction filter that eliminates pre and post ringing (called impulse response in the Trinity manual) which takes all of this processing out of the dac which improves dac clock behaviour.
When I read the description of the sound of the Trinity dac I thought that it was exactly how most of us Phasure owners would describe the sound of our dac: that it has no sound of its own. I am quite sure that the designer of the Phasure does not pick the cream from his crop of PCM1704s Like for the Trinity) and it's unusual shape and presentation do manage to keep costs down so it is a fraction of the price of the Trinity, but I sure would love to hear them both side by side one day." |
In my opinion, the "best DAC" would be the one that works in Pure DSD mode (that means converts PCM to DSD as well), and does not use D/A conversion chips which send/upsample DSD through Delta/Sigma modulators.
Lastly, there shouldn't be any solid state components on the signal path, after the DSD D/A conversion (usually an FIR filter).
Now, that is really hard to find. :-) The Lampizator DSD dac has some of those design elements in place according to Lucas and his disciples. Bruce Bowen has done a shootout recently with the 15K PD dac and it compared favorably. The Phasure eats it alive using PCM. Its closer via DSD but the Phasure is still clearly better.
Prior to the Phasure the best sound I had heard was DSD using the Playback. Bhobba, which PD dac was demoed? The 3 or the 5? According to everyone in the know, PCM is not its strong suite, so any comparison is strawmanish especially if you have no equivalent digital transport and software upstream. This seems to be one area where Peter and the Phasure dac seems to excel and pull ahead of the pack. I heard from someone that the Trinity Dac has the typical cold brighter German sound. That is not what I have read about it so far (http://cybwiz.blogspot.com/2013/03/trinity-dac.html; http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?12023-Trinity-DAC). It sounds like a pretty serious piece of gear. While I agree that cost does not ALWAYS track with performance, the Audioexotics crowd are almost insufferable in their testing and regularly have access to the best in rooms and systems that are SOTA. Not the typical cheezeball like myself in the US dispensing wisdom from my vintage recliner in a musty basement. Its all about exposure and frame of reference. The Trinity has multiple proprietary elements (with associated patents) and a designer with a serious pedigree. It also has some architectural similarities to the Phasure in terms of stacked 1704s, so I would be surprised by any reports of being cool sounding. Its price is too rich for my blood but if you are the type of guy who has an unlimited budget, why not? More power to them. I know there was a shootout scheduled between the Trinity dac and the Lampizator L7 in Hong Kong on the 22nd but I have not heard anything yet. There is also one planned between the Phasure and Lampi L4 or possibly L7 in Atlanta sometime in Jan. Still awaiting a formal commitment from the southern fried Phasure devote. There is obviously a lot of good dac data coming down the pike. Should be fun. Just have to try and leave the audio egos at the door..... |
The Phasure eats it alive using PCM. Its closer via DSD but the Phasure is still clearly better.
I have the Phasure NOS1 DAC here, as well as many other DACs.
Prior to the Phasure the best sound I had heard was DSD using the Playback.
This just proves the fact that "best component" is only a synergy between all components in a given audio system. :-) Well said Alex. Can we infer then that the Phasure dac is not eating your dac alive? Are you using the all-important software and computer as a pre-ampless transport. Bruce Bowen found that the Phasure on its lonesome was not the rockstar its groupies claim it to be. |
Interesting JWM...I am most interested in reading more about this particular DAC. Until I can hear for myself, it is always good to collect different opinions...every now and then, certain 'themes' surface from all the varied opinions. I look forward to your own opinions here. What have heard about the Light Harmonic DaVinci DAC in terms of any particular 'character'? I do like the fact that they do separate DSD and PCM architecture inside...which is consistent with the techno guys who say that each architecture is different and excels at different formats. It is either jack of all trades...or truly best of both. I am hoping the latter of course! |
I heard from someone that the Trinity Dac has the typical cold brighter German sound. I will listen to this and the DaVinci at CES. |
Hi Mr. Tennis...just curious, do you still like Zanden? I still love mine...and have spent countless hours on elements which, for me, have continued to take the 4-box further and further. It is in fact amazing for me how well it responds to these things, and continues to deliver even more of what I love about Zanden. Specifically, I have NOS tubes throughout (Mullard 1950s rectifiers, Amperex 7308, EAT Tube dampers), independent HRS M3 or Stillpoints Ultra 5s under each box, plus HRS, Ultra, dampers on top of each...to create an 'isolation sandwich'...and finally Purist Audio Dominus Power cables.
6 years running and no desire to look at further digital, and I have been fortunate to hear: Metronome Kalista Ref/C2A, ARC CD 3,5,7,8, Stahl-Tek, TAD D600, Esoteric X-01SE, Emm CDSA, Audio Aero La Source, Weiss Medea, Krell 505, Meridian 808.2, Wadia s7i, DCS Scarlatti full stack and Vivaldi full stack. I'd love to hear the new Trinity DAC and Light Harmonic DaVinci. But otherwise, perfectly happy.
Just curious on your end if you've discovered other digital you like better. |
hi bhobba:
thanks for making my case, that there is no perfect dac,. your logic also supports the premise that there is no perfect component or stereo system.
after all listening to music is a subjective experience. |
Bill, dont forget the other side of the equation. Jitter is NOT the be all and end all of good digital. There is also a matter of waveform distortion of the digital and resulting analog signal, which is more in the domain of power supply construction and RFI/EMI pollution. that carries equal weight in my mind. Of course the best Dacs deal with that well. |
Since all audio systems are colored (cost no object), I personally prefer coloration that is closest-to-real. :-)
Heard that one before. It looks like the way to go on the surface. Trouble is exactly what coloration is closer to real is a rather slippery beast. For example its well known by speaker designers that a transient perfect .5 alignment is the most accurate. Yet it sounds overly taught and anemic and a slightly less accurate .6 or .65 alignment sounds better subjectively. It just seems to be the way we are.
Then we have exactly what parameter makes the biggest subjective difference. One of the DAC's at the shootout will be a Killer. It has an obviously colored valve output stage - not dripping in honey etc etc but there is obviously a trace of coloration that makes it sound lovely. But it goes to enormous lengths that really lower jitter. What's better subjectively - lower jitter or a less colored output stage. Who knows.
Thanks
Bill |
Hey Alex are you going to be at CES this year? Hi Jwm, Unfortunately, I will not be attending the CES. Had a few expos in Europe recently, and planning on more exhibitions next year. Maybe will be at the CES early 2015, will see. Best wishes, Alex Peychev |
Hey Alex are you going to be at CES this year? |
The truth, the utter truth, is there is no best, there is no better, all there is is what people like in their systems. Two people can listen to exactly the same system - one goes - WOW - the other BLAH. Yup, that is the case. In my opinion, the so called "personal taste" in audio is just what people are used to, which, in most cases, has nothing to do with realistic tonality of live (un-amplified) performances. Though one person will like Steinway and the other Yamaha grand-pianos, these both have to be reproduced faithfully in an audio system, so there are no preferences - it is either real, or colored. Since all audio systems are colored (cost no object), I personally prefer coloration that is closest-to-real. :-) Trying to minimize the BLAH and maximize the WOW factor, I have designed and built a complete reference audio system, from the power cables to the speakers, and I am very happy. You can check out the system (on Audiogon) under my signature, I have just updated it with the latest. Best wishes, Alex Peychev |
there is no best anything. there are only priorities, which when satisfied, please the listener.
it is impossible to hear everything. one may prefer a dac among those which are auditioned, but that does not denote that it is the best.
audio is a very subjective medium. so find something that pleases you within your price range and be happy.
there is no product which is superior in every way to all other products. thus the question has no definitive answer. |
