No mate - haven't heard the Lampi or done any comparisons with it.
I did hear of one with a PDX and another DAC I cant recall with the Lampi - the PDX won that one.
I have a big DAC shootout coming up - the best 4 DAC's I have yet heard - the Killer, The Phasure, the PDX and the Playback Designs. Date not set yet - my Killer hasn't quite been built yet. Each one is hand built and tuned to the system it will be used with. Mine will be set up to use the Off-Ramp via I2S, and either the DAC or my amp adjusted so no pre is used - it will be direct connected.
Thanks
Bill |
Best by what measure? Whose ears?
Just yesterday I compared a $2.5K DAC to a $5K DAC. I heard the 2.5K DAC first - beautiful, musical lovely sound. Slightly shy in the bass but really nice to listen to. Then we put on the $5K DAC - in every way it was better - better bass, detail and life.
But would people prefer it? Having been with people listening to DAC's I can assure anyone there is no way to tell - some will like the $2.5k DAC, others the $5k - everyone has different triggers that says - this is real.
Check out the following:
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2012/04/nad-m51-digital-direct-dac-initial-impressions/
I own both the M51 and PDX. To my ears the PDX easily bests the M51. It simply has greater life, detail and accuracy. But how did the above review characterize it?
'The PDX showed far greater extension in both frequency directions. Some might call this air and bass depth. 'Team Lenehans box continued to display an immediately thrilling/arresting listen, but this time without avidity heard earlier behind CJ tubes. The listening panel felt that the PDX didnt play music that you can relax into its edge-of-your-seat stuff
and thats where you remain. I picture myself as Malcolm McDowell in A Clockwork Orange, my eyes pinned open and forced to endure everything in front of me. More dramatic than subtle, the PDX is pure ultraviolence. Its a preacher, all up in your grill with musical evangelism.'
And that pretty well sums it up - every DAC, in fact every piece of audio gear - has a particular sound. The best is what particular sound appeals to you.
Thanks
Bill |
Had a look at the review of the pre-amp - then the price.
Guys - get a grip on reality here.
Its easy to drool over mega priced gear and think because of the price tag it must be the best.
However in practice I can assure you it's far from the truth.
On the few occasions I have heard of comparisons of the mega priced stuff, and been involved in some myself, with stuff I believe is up there with the best but at a MUCH saner price - guess what - the saner priced stuff won. On the DAC front it was a DAC shootout with a number of DAC's but the two finalists were a DCS stack at its mega price and a $5K DAC called the Killer - the Killer won - much more musical and involving. My most recent experience was at an amp GTG where a hugely expensive Gryphon was at. Some thought a dark horse highly upgraded old Leak amp was the best - at an all up price of about $5k. I was so impressed I am going to get one and have ordered the Leak to get upgraded.
The issue with mega priced stuff is the way we generally find out the REAL truth about gear is not by reviews in magazines - they have well known issues - but by enthusiasts like the people that post here reporting on then from direct experience. Due to their cost they are rarely if ever subjected to that very probing scrutiny. So it easy to get caught up in the romance of it devoid of the reality.
Thanks
Bill |
The Playback Designs does pure DSD and converts PCM to DSD.
The Phasure eats it alive using PCM. Its closer via DSD but the Phasure is still clearly better.
Prior to the Phasure the best sound I had heard was DSD using the Playback.
The DAC shootout I am organizing will have both those DAC's as part of the mix and should prove interesting for that and other reasons.
Thanks
Bill
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The DAC shootout will only be the DAC's I mentioned.
If someone wants to send a Lampi Level 7 to the Gold Coast drop me a line and it can be included.
These are privately owned DAC's and represent the best 4 DAC's I have heard in my quite extensive DAC listening over the years.
Thanks
Bill |
Alex Peychev wrote:
'This just proves the fact that "best component" is only a synergy between all components in a given audio system. :-)'
Oh boy is that true - but it goes way way beyond that.
Checkout the following review of a speaker that I lent to a guy in the US but thought, what the heck, while it was over there would get it reviewed prior to me selling it:
http://www.stereomojo.com/LENEHAN%20ML1%20REFERENCE%20SPEAKER%20REVIEW/LenehandML1ReferenceSpeaker.htm
You don't see reviews like that - but that's purely because most reviews in magazines etc are full of shite.
The truth, the utter truth, is there is no best, there is no better, all there is is what people like in their systems. Two people can listen to exactly the same system - one goes - WOW - the other BLAH. I have seen it, and even with gear that by any objective measure such as waterfall measurements is a lot better.
Thanks |
Since all audio systems are colored (cost no object), I personally prefer coloration that is closest-to-real. :-)
Heard that one before. It looks like the way to go on the surface. Trouble is exactly what coloration is closer to real is a rather slippery beast. For example its well known by speaker designers that a transient perfect .5 alignment is the most accurate. Yet it sounds overly taught and anemic and a slightly less accurate .6 or .65 alignment sounds better subjectively. It just seems to be the way we are.
Then we have exactly what parameter makes the biggest subjective difference. One of the DAC's at the shootout will be a Killer. It has an obviously colored valve output stage - not dripping in honey etc etc but there is obviously a trace of coloration that makes it sound lovely. But it goes to enormous lengths that really lower jitter. What's better subjectively - lower jitter or a less colored output stage. Who knows.
Thanks
Bill |
'Bhobba, which PD dac was demoed? The 3 or the 5? According to everyone in the know, PCM is not its strong suite, so any comparison is strawmanish especially if you have no equivalent digital transport and software upstream. This seems to be one area where Peter and the Phasure dac seems to excel and pull ahead of the pack.'
It was the the 3 which I own, but the big DAC shootout I am arranging will hopefully be with their top of the line DAC.
Whoever told you the PCM of the PD is not that crash hot is correct - DSD into that DAC is way ahead. But I thought I was pretty clear - the comparison was DSD into the PD and PCM into the Phasure so it was strength to strength - and the Phasure was better.
Thanks
Bill |
Just to add spice to this my Killer DAC was just completed yesterday and I went over to hear it at the place of the person that made it for me - he posts under the name of Rawl where I am in Australia.
This is a very special hand built DAC with a cult following here in Australia. It uses the legendary Phillips TDA1541 DAC chips and all parts, even the transformer, are hand built and made specifically for the DAC. Even each piece of wire is hand selected.
This DAC was at a shootout with a number of other DAC's, but it came down to two - a DCS Stack and this DAC. The DCS was considered more Hi Fi with detail, speed etc etc - but the Killer was much more captivating and 'real' sounding - it was most peoples preference.
When I arrived Rawl had his uber heavily upgraded Wadia transport running via I2S into it playing Dianna Krall - Girl In The Other Room. Before saying anything else I want to emphasize this transport is wild - really low jitter custom modified Trichord clocks, totally battery powered, and other stuff that is quite likely even above the uber stuff in an Off-Ramp. This is no ordinary bit of gear. A number of people have compared it to an Off-Ramp and to their total shock it easily bested it - they switched over from computer audio because of that. BTW its the only transport I have heard that can do that - normally I find the Off-Ramp eats transports alive - no contest - especially my Off-Ramp which has a heavily modified power supply.
The amp was an upgraded VAC and speakers ML3 Reference, the same as mine. These speakers are fairly well known in Aus - but you guys may not know them. They are made by a guy that lives close to me and Rawl, and use 10 gauge air core inductors, the cabinet is lined with steel, and Duelund VSF Copper capacitors throughout.
Very full harmonically rich enveloping sound. This type of thing is what Rawl and other Killer DAC guys refer to as resolution - the thing that people preferred compared to the DCS. For me its a fuller richer sound - not extra resolution - I like it - but its different terminology than I use. I thought, yes it had the signature of other Killer's I had heard and I liked it right off.
Next up was via my Off-Ramp using I2S. My Off-Ramp also uses a heavily upgraded custom built power supply that makes a big difference over the switching supply Steve Nugent supplies with it. It has a switch that engages and disengages the earth - and we found one position significantly better than the other - much cleaner clearer sound so that's what we stuck with.
The difference was the Off-Ramp had greater detail, and better, tighter bass, but it lost a significant amount of the harmonic richness. It was a whiter, more bland sound. I preferred the transport, but I am not sure that would be everyone's preference. Knowing Killer DAC aficionados they would prefer the transport. Certainly Rawl much preferred it.
OK - I also took on over my Playback Designs MPD3, which, prior to the Phasure, was the best DAC I had heard via DSD. First up we played Harry Belefonte - Sylvie via PCM - OK - but to my ears the Killer was obviously better. This was expected - the PD is OK via PCM - but a number of other DAC's I pitted it against were better. Its real strength is DSD. So next was Sylvie via DSD. Immediately better - very live real and present. Now we are talking. Ok - what about the Off-Ramp via PCM into the Killer. Sorry PD guys - we have another DAC other than the Phasure that is better. It simply sounded richer and more life like.
We played a number tracks including some classical. But it was all basically the same - the Killer was clearly better than the PD - and the transport had a fuller, richer more enveloping sound - but the Off-Ramp better detail and bass.
The main hurdle is now past and the big DAC shootout with this, a PDX, a PD, and the Phasure is planned, and that should hopefully happen late January or early February. It should prove very interesting.
The speakers used in that shootout will be even above my speakers and those in this comparison - they use Duelund Cast, have external crossovers with a special star wiring scheme, and are lined with 1/4 inch copper and inch thick steel bracing all over the place - simply the best speakers I and a lot of people I know have heard - very very transparent - what you feed it it reproduces - ruthlessly.
Thanks
Bill |
'Charles, most people who own SOTA vinyl and digital concurrently favor vinyl (Mike L. for example). Beyond that, people I trust who have nothing to sell still feel master tape is king. If digital works for you, great. Its a matter of goals and expectations. Its getting closer though as this and other threads indicate which is exciting.'
I sort of agree.
I was privy to the results of a little experiment where a rather good USB DAC was compared to a good vinyl system. The person doing it, and this is my view as well, thought the digital MURDERED the vinyl - much more life, detail and 'rightness' to my ears. The vinyl sounded dull and muffled. Guess what - to the total shock of the person doing the comparison about 50% preferred the vinyl, and 50% the digital. The exact areas the digital guys thought was way ahead - detail, and life was described by the vinyl brigade as a digital edge - what they called resolution and organic flow digital guys described as dull and lack of life.
The truth is not that digital or vinyl is better - it's rather we all lock onto different things.
I hasten to add this was not a uber expensive vinyl system - I have been assured by people whose ears I trust they can, and do, exceed the best digital.
But exactly how many have systems in that league?
Thanks
Bill |
'Can you do an experiment? Convert some of your favorite PCM files to DSD64 or DSD128 using JRiver 19 Media Center, as I feel their PCM to DSD modulator is superb. Once done, feed the resulting DSD files through your MPD-3 and see what happens against your PCM DAC playing the same PCM files?'
I haven't got time for that right now - next few weeks here in Australia is Cricket and Tennis season and my time will be taken up with that.
But from my experience I think you are correct - it would likely improve things quite a bit.
What I do know of is experiments done with a Killer DAC where the output of a master tape was converted to DSD, then downsampled to 44.1 using some special software. There was a difference when played back via the Killer - but it was thought many wouldn't worry about it - it was that slight.
Thanks
Bill |
'Agear, I checked into the ML3 Reference speakers, they seem dead serious and also reminded me of Dale's offerings.'
They are dead serious all right.
But for about the same money they have been surpassed by the Limited. I live near the maker and he is going to try and raise the performance of the ML3 - but its going to be hard because one of the the reasons for the Limited's performance is its lined with 1/4 inch copper and has 1 inch thick cast iron bracing all over the place inside - each speakers weight is about 41kg - with stands each speaker is over 80kg. Duplicating that in a speaker the size of the ML3 is pretty much impossible at a realistic cost.
However I have been conned by the maker into getting a brand new speaker he is working on that uses the 6 inch Seas Magnesium cone and Morel Supreme tweeter. It will have a slightly smaller internal volume for even deeper bass - hence it will be more rigid again. The crossover will be in a separate section at the back, and it will have a trapezoidal shape to break up internal standing waves.
I can report on how it sounds when its built.
But its a big problem for guys outside Australia because they will have Bucklies of hearing it - unless of course you want to take a punt and fly out to the Gold Coast to hear it. Couple it with a bit of a holiday.
Thanks
Bill |
