I have cured my problem. I bought a Opera Audio Cyber 222
preamp and it was the missing link. I look forward to tube rolling. It brought the bass up and mids and treble together. Bass is great just what I wanted a low levels as well as high levels. My system is almost complete.
Thanks to all who had comments.
Ben |
I lived with the Revel Performa F30s for 3 years. While I would not describe them as smooth and laid back, they are certainly not forward sounding or bright, either. I can't help but think that a room as large as yours with vaulted ceilings is an echo chamber with significant reflections resulting in your bright sound. Have you tried nearfield listening? Make sure the speakers are well away from the sidewalls. Last, in my experience, Krell can be bright/forward sounding. I am not familiar with the rest of your components.
Scott |
Agree with Mechans. The room may contribute, but you've got some equipment that, in my experience, is just bright, namely Revel and Krell (and maybe some of the other gear as well). I've had to deal with WAF issues as far as rooms go, and did what I could, but found substantial differences in equipment, especially speakers. There are several good threads on this subject, some of which you can find probably via threads in which I've commented--and I'm not recommending my comments per se, they were just good threads with a lot of good commentary by some sharp audiophiles. |
In this case, it is highly likely the room is to blame. I am sure Sansui has plenty of padded furniture and all that but that does not mean it can support bass. A large room with vaulted ceilings and open to a kitchen, that tells me he is going to need more than just a change of cables or ac conditioning. I had a living room like that, a bit smaller though and the only way to get a balanced sound was to sit closer to speakers and move the speakers closer to the side walls. |
Romm acoustics wasn't even an issue until this past 3-5 years. I have been into audio for 40 years. The problem of reflections making things unbearable may be a real issue in a room that is hyper lively. Most of us have carpets padded non reflective furniture, drapes etc. I have heard rooms with every sound trapping device known employed and it sounds ghastly. An over damped room is stifeling. Kills all the sparkle and kills the staging etc. If you play music in a room with you sitting in folding chair with nothing else...sure it will echo and be inchoherent.
I really think this room treatment thing is overblown. Personally The changes I made over the years in equipment had an impact greater than any room issue.
I did truly warm up my sound with Cardas cables in one connection. I made my WAF system faster with silver thruout. Most of all I dumped my 400wpc SS monoblocs for tube monoblocs, switched my tubed pre that is worshipped by some as a classic for a $350 AE-3 and I found Nirvana. If you can get to Nirvana with bass traps etc. more power to you, I think it's mostly a bill of goods. |
Great advice from Musicnoise. I too was told room acoustics over and over. And A/C power. Getting right in front a speakers knocked off the brightness a bit but it was still there. Buy a Furetech didn't help matters either. I changed amps and it cured 90% of my brightness issues. |
You could try a little experiment. I am assuming that your listening position is somewhere greater than 6 feet from the speakers. Set your volume control to where it definitely sounds bright. Now move to within 3 feet of your speakers. It will be louder - but, if it no longer sounds bright , then you definitely have a room acoustic problem that can be fixed without a lot of $$. If it sounds louder and still sounds bright, then room acoustic changes are probably not going to completely solve your problem. If that is the case then either a "muddy" tube preamp will likely help but will probably leave you unhappy with the low frequency sound also. Biamping may help - but that is no so easy to do and get right just by going by ear. Attenutate the high frequencies either via a treble control or with filtering. By the way - I would not worry about tinnitus do to the brightness - tinnitus results from the sound wave - not the sound of the wave. The largest population with tinntus is that of combat veterans - particularly those who served in artillery units. Fairly low frequencies but massive wave fronts. It is the sound pressure that does the damage - actually distortion is likely to cause you to turn it down and prevent tinnitus - the quickest route to tinnitus is to listen to distortionless pleasant music at high spl's because you won't turn it down. A friend who is an audiologist tells me that the little in the ear canal earphones everyone uses with their ipods is about the most dangerous way to go to damage your hearing. His explanation is that the tightness of the earphone leaves no avenue for dispersion of the sound wave - it does not get dissipated - it just hits the hearing mechanisms - he predicts that there will be a rash of hearing problems directly attributed to those little gems. Fortunately, audiophiles are not big on the Ipod and earbuds. |
I am exploring all angles presently..
Thanks to all |
If you cannot deal with the acoustics, you are doomed to patchwork as nothing(!) will do as well. WAF is a problem which can be dealt with by consideration, stealth and psychology.
Kal |
Call Guy at Placette audio. You'll be glad you did... |
I would also try a Mac preamp. I use the tone controls
on my Mac C46 preamp to roll off the highs for headphone listening sometimes. They work well. There's one on sale
here the last time I looked. |
You need first to evaluate the prime and secondary sources of the brightness of your components. If any of your prime components from the front end back are inherently bright you will not be able to change their character. You can take some of the leading edge off the brightness, but overall that still doesn't yield relaxed listening. Going the route of balanced components and cabling frequently yields brightness that is more apparent/striking because of the juxtaposition with the improvement in quiet background. Get to know your components character then you will be able to audition new pieces and see immediately whether they contribute to the sound you want or detract. Lastly I didn't see any power conditioning components listed. Components running on clean power show their traits more clearly and will make their evaluation easier. |
Hi, I don't believe your room acoustics are the problem. You should concider purifying the electrical current with a good line conditioner. I use a Audience AR6. I suspect the brightness is primarily from your CD player. Try a Shunyata power cable with the magic Fe compound and if I am right a lot of the brightness will go away. Good luck. |
Thanks,
What about the Mac C34V. It has an equalizer. |
If you can't do anything about the room, you are left with getting a preamp with tone controls like the NAD c162 which has solid bass btw. The Vincent preamps may be a good fit in your system and have tone controls. |
so if you can sell these speakers and buy the ones that may work better fir you, your wife will not approve that purchase, even if the cost is the same?
In my experience, there is no cable that will solve this. Reduce, yes. But not by a margin that will make you happy. If speakers have this sonic quality, the only way to correct this without changing speakers is to use room treatment.
I think speakers like Sonus Faber Cremona should do the trick just fine, without anything else being done. Are they in the same $ range as your revels? Or may be lower end Sonus, or Vienna Acoustics. |
Thanks for the response. The speakers are used and I am stuck with them. Other than moving the speakers I cannot do much of anything else because of the wife factor. I will
try the cardas cables ....I will inquire about the age of the speakers but I feel they are broken in.. |
Use tone control cables . I highly recommend that you get Cardas Golden reference or anything above the Cross except neutral reference cable. A truly good tubed preamp will not mute the treble, it will add more, despite the misonceived thinking that harkens back decades. |
How old are the revels? They need 200 to 300 hours to break in. They will soften up with time. |
the better the components the more they reveal the shortcomings of the system/room interractions. Your best bet aside from treating the room if that isn't possible, is to get speakers that sound less forward and less bright. I don't think preamp will help reduce overall brightness, although a tubed pre may decrease it to some extent, but it won't satisfy you in a long run. To me a change of speakers is the best solution.
JMO. |
What have you tried so far? |
My room is 20x20 open to kitchen and 18 ft. vaulted ceiling.
Not much I can do. |
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