Asa,
Don't be fooled by my misanthropic diatribes. I'm a believer in the pendulum theory and feel strongly that we'll recover from our greed cycle. People are stupid in their low level reflexes, what with tying yellow ribbons for Buffoon 1 and berating the French for their sensible position versus Buffoon 2, but insofar as they blow in the wind, they will be blown back to sanity. Unless, of course, we are all blown to kingdom come.
We are in YIN times and for that reason our focus is outward and superficial but Buffoon 2 is unwittingly reversing this trend by providing us with a virtual certainty of YANG times in the near future. When our belts tighten sufficiently, we will again concern ourselves with substance.
The future, while superficially bleak, holds much promise as gutcheck time draws nigh. |
Tater, honey,
I hold little hope for you as a result of reading your petulant anti-Rowland rantings. You can't or won't spell the man's name correctly and you have not as yet betrayed any knowledge upon which you might reject his fine amplifiers.
If you trouble yourself to type JRDG into Google ou will find his website. From there you select "products" and from there select the Concentra II. There is a tech talk section there which will provide you with many reasons to admire his innovative spirit and clever designs.
If ever you purchase a new Rowland product, the experience of opening the box and acquainting yourself with the sophistication and gracious goodwill of the people who built and packaged it just for you is delightful beyond ready description. If ever you have been attended to by the more elegant of the servant trade, then you have a hint of the feeling Rowland conveys.
Soundwise, it cannot be faulted. I will concede that there are amplifiers whose characteristics better convey the sound effects of overproduced, unintelligible commercial recordings but in my vast experience I have yet to hear any solid state device that can do better justice to the essence of real music performed on acoustic instruments.
So, Tater, please do yourself a favor by noting the correct spelling and reading about the Concentra II. If you are still in the mood to lock horns on this topic at that time perhaps you will have some.
|
Jond,
Your request that I omit the Dead from this thread is fair and reasonable and I will honor it since I believe the Grateful Dead, like other religions should be a "don't ask, don't tell" sort of thing.
What's your theory about the equipment glut? |
Hey Macrojack,I looked up the Rowland website Am I supposed
to be impressed.If you like shiny boxes I could make you
some at a considerable lower price.Let me know what size
you want and I will make them for you!
For an extra fee I could even have them engraved JRDG! |
And, Taters, the SPECIFIC Rowland amps you have heard in your system and how they came up short compared to specific other brands models are...? |
Macro, I'm loving this! Funny!
Pendulums, yes, but oscillations bifurcate at increasingly progressive rates. The Earth is a mirror. Look outside, the pendulum is shaking; its not just about the stability of political structures of the species Homo sapiens over historic time, but all consciousness over evolutionary time.
Anyway, thanks again for the belly laugh! |
Yes, Tater, you are supposed to be impressed. Please tell me in whole sentences why Jeff's award winning site doesn't impress you. |
Like I said in my previous thread you are more impressed
by shiny boxes and award winning websites than you are
with sound reproduction!
|
Hey Y'all,
Damn it Taters, what have you heard or demoed or owned that sounds better, in your opinion. It's easy to sit at your keyboard and spout out this nonsense about "shiny boxes" but you have yet to qualify your statements. Put up or shut up. Give us some examples of what you think are better performing amps or clam up..........John |
Macrojack,
I gave my opinion above, but to reiterate, economics, and the desire to upgrade. I believe the newly released 302 has some Rowland owners drooling. |
Jond,
A friend of mine sold his Twelves on Agon and bought the 302 a while back and he says it is a quantum leap forward. He'a using Quad 989s and the Lindemann D-680 CD player with Nordost Valhalla throughout so you can see he is aware.
There can be no question about the impact of the 302 but I still think that while many are moving up, even more are moving out.
The item most prevalent on the for sale list seems to be the Model Two and going from that to a 302 is an unlikely leap.
By the same token, the only Concentras or Model 112s on the list are being offered from foreign countries. Old preamps (especially Consummates) are also pretty numerous. What would you guess is causing that? |
Macro,
I've noticed a ton of preamps also, but I don't know why. Maybe folks are venturing into tubed preamps as they get older and wiser. |
I agree that going from a Model 2 to a 302 is unlikely. People may be going from the 2 to a Model 10 or 12 or 112, though. |
Jfz, That may be their intention but sadly, they aren't going anywhere. What a bummer to have a $5800 amp that draws no takers at $2200. That's only 38% of retail on something that is still just like new. Look at the pictures of these amps in the ads. They look great.
If I take it to a personal level and ask myself why I don't want to buy one, the answer is that I have a Concentra. Perhaps the existance of the integrated is what has short-circuited the sale of basic amps.
Why aren't you (or anyone else) buying one of these Model Two amps?
Another issue to consider is the price and scarcity of the matching preamp. A Concentra can be had without phono for an average of $2750, whereas a Model Two and a Synergy One would set you back nearly $5000 if you get the best price ever to appear on Agon on both of them. That's a whopping big difference. Once you throw in appropriate interconnects, you've probably doubled the cost.
Pure speculation on my part but the numbers support the theory. However, who knows what anybody else is thinking? |
Macrojack- Just to answer your question: I'm not buying one of the Model 2s because I have a Model 10. Obviously I can't speak for anyone else. For what it's worth - I don't think it's necessary to use a matching Rowland preamp (and I'm not). |
Wow!
Lots of activity on this thread! I use my Model 2 with a Pass Aleph P pre-amp or my Adcom GFP 750 pre-amp, or the way I currently use it-with the variable out on my Sony XA7ES player directly into the amp.
Yes, Rowland & Pass make expensive gear. And YES, most of it is exported to the Asian market.
You don't have to buy new, then both brands are much easier to afford.............. |
I'd buy a Model 2 but how much will I loose if I don't like it and decide to sell in 1 month?
How much, if any, better is it than Musical Fidelity A3.2cr or Audio by Van Alstine Fet valve 350ex or Blue Circle BC22 mkII? These amps are ~$1,700 new / $1,100 used, more power and newer technology too. |
Cdc -- I'm not familiar with any of those products but it sounds like you answered my question. I see Rowland's stuff as somewhat timeless like a Porsche but, cool as the old Speedster may still be, anything made today would run circles around it. I can't imagine that the Model Two is all that obsolete yet but you offered three possible alternatives and it would appear that Audiogoners are shunning this amp for some reason.
As for what happens when you want to sell.....that's a crapshoot but maybe, as with stocks, it is good to buy while the market is down. A few months back I almost bought a Classe 25 for $1200. The poor guy couldn't give it away. He finally did and now they are commanding nearly $2K and are hard to find. Same way with Concentras. Sometimes there are 6 or 8 of them in our listings and at other times (like now) there aren't any. Go figure. |
Is it any surprise that those who don't own and who have never owned Rowland gear bash it? This is analagous to the ugly guy saying Playboy's playmate of the month must be stupid-- she'll never sleep with him anyhow, but now he feels better because he's taken her off the pedestal. Sniping at Rowland while listening to your surround sound receiver must be comforting.
Comments like "anything made today will run circles around " are simply ignorant.
What, exactly are the huge technological advances that have been made in stereo pre-amplifier design in say, the last 15 years? For extra credit, show the validity and technical merit of these so-called advances in light of the staying power of tube preamps and amps with numerous audiophiles (many with designs that are positively antique). Show your work.
No credit for --"you old 2-channel farts are just used to that sound, that's why you like old gear"-- type answers will be given. |
Pmkalby,
Delighted to have you weigh in on this topic. I agree that those who speak negatively about Rowland gear are likely doing so from a position of ignorance. To my way of thinking, Jeff Rowland has contributed more to the advancement of the High End art form than anyone else. And I'm not speaking solely of appearance when I say that. A careful investigation of his offerings will leave one better informed about State of the Art and more appreciative of the effort that can be made toward that end by one man committed to improvement and disinterested in marketing. |
well well i am listening to my jeff rowland 8T with my consonance pre. (which by the way has the best sounding phono i have ever heard) my sources are oracle delphi MKII table and sony sacd xa777es with alon MKV millerized speakers and the music it produces is absolutely heavenly, i've owned lots of macs/krells/classe/copland just about endless systems but nothing comes even close to the 8T period |
Asa's quote from his 3-11-03 post:
"4.4 trillion projected deficit + cost of Iraq "war" and occupation + Japanese impending bank implosion + $40+/barrel sweet crude + housing bubble + predominant tax breaks for top 5% + highest unemployment rate since last Bush recession + a thousand points of Perle's imperialist light + a yellow ribbon around your neck = tick, tick, tick..."
Good call Asa, especially the housing bubble part, recognizing it for what it was so early on. Now tell us, how did you know when so many of our lawmakers and policymakers didn't, hmmmm. |
