Why don't gold based cable fans try Synergistic

I would be glad to hear from anyone using PCs and ICs in series.

I now have 2 PCs in series -- the GG Reflection into the Tesla Plex SE -- on the other end Cryo-Schutered into the SR PR into the SR PowerCell SE with Galileo MPC. I also have 3 XLR ICs in series -- Supra Sword into the EMM CDSA SE -- on the other end into GG Reflection then into SR Acoustic Reference with standard MPC.

The cumulative synergy of all this is quite amazing -- holographic and producing the best qualities that GG, SR and Supra can bring to a system -- all combined in one. Surprisingly, what really opened everything up were the Supras -- the least expensive of these cables.

I have found that you can have the best of more than one sonic world by experimenting with cables in series. When I take out one cable the whole sound scape collapses. My SCs are GG Reflection. I will be adding SR Galileo universal speaker cells later this year.

eaach metal in its pure form--either copper or silver or gold, have their own sonic signature. notice i have excluded alloys and mixed metal construction.

i suspect that each of us prefers one of the three metals in a particular application and so would prefer that metal to the teslas.

or, more obviously, people prefer different cables because of complementary or reinforcing colorations.

those who say that they don't want any coloration in their systems should realize that since all components are imperfect, coloration can be minimized but not eliminated.

each of us tries to find a way to satisfy our idiosyncratic preferences.

I doubt it.

Try putting GG and SR XLR ICs in series with the GG on the CDP side. You get the best of both worlds.

$40.000 speaker cable very overpriced.Other cables as good for a lot less.

I have added the Synergistic Research PowerCell 10SE to my system with the SR Precision Reference power cord and Galileo MPC. This has made a huge improvement bringing my system to a new level. Plugging the Gabriel Gold Reflection power cord into the wall receptacle (an SR Tesla Plex that is in series with an SR Tesla Plex SE) has brought my system up another level. It was previously between the source and the PowerCell. There is great synergy between GG and SR.

I had SR Au79 ICs and Tesla Quad (specially QTd) SCs in my system for a few months. They were good but, like all cables, dependent on the other components, plugs and tweaks in my system to maximize their potential. Synergy is everything. I have recently been doing a serious upgrade to my system and needed to go up the SR ladder to maximize my system's potential -- but the high silver content in the top SR cables posed compatibility problems with my new speakers whose maker does not recommend high content silver cabling. So I switched to Gabriel Gold Reflection PC, ICs and SCs while keeping a Master Coupler DIY-terminated with Oyaide plugs and IECs for my sub and for the connection from my amp to step-down transformer. As I say, synergy is everything. The Gabriel Golds sound absolutely wonderful in my system -- low level detail with warmth, dynamics, sound stage. I will soon be adding an SR PowerCell 10SE to put the icing on the sonic cake. No buyer's regret about changing from SR to Gabriel Gold.

Tbg, it's sad to see a person write so many words, yet not say anything. Just sheer BS. No matter how much you twist and try to spin things, some will not forget.

BTW, no interest, financial or otherwise, in gold or ANY cable product.

Trelja, you say, "We are the "others" you talk about." Obviously, not. You speak only for yourself.

You say, "Ray Charles would have no trouble reading into "the importer's unwillingness to put a pair out for review" when it comes to you writing them up." Obviously, you have no knowledge about this. As I have said before SoundStage knew about Brian Ackerman wanting me to do a review but being unwilling at the time to dedicate a pair for review. Ask him and for the first time have some knowledge about this. You say you have had plenty of off line correspondence. So have I, much of it asking about my opinions of the Tidals and to ignore Bill Feil. No one mentioned you at all.

You say, "Let's not try to revise history, that episode precipiated your firing from the reviewing position." I agree that we should not seek to revise history. My review of the Tidal speakers had nothing to do with my stent at reviewing with SoundStage ending. It was my posting on Audiogon that caused it, in particular a comment about Gryphon amps. I had informed SoundStage that I posted often on AudioAsylum and Audiogon. They were not pleased, but took me on as a reviewer.

You say, "In other words, what you bring the discussion in terms of how you've obtained the product, and its corollary, what the truth actually is." I really don't know what this means, but suspect you mean that because of what you think happened with Tidal, that my personal experiences are invalid. I can say little about this twisted logic, except that it does you a disservice if anyone previously valued your opinions.

Again, you offer little other than snide remarks and your limited perspective with no evidence that you are even close to knowing what happened. Why, I don't know. Perhaps you sell these gold cables?

I find my SR cabling to be very neutral and transparent, neither warm or fatiguing at all. I have a very resolving system and they present in a very natural, organic manner, neither adding nor subtracting from the soundstage. I have had other brands of cabling in my system and have discovered that its really all about the SYNERGY with your other gear. I have a tough time agreeing with some of the blanket statements above regarding increased dynamics caused by these cables(at least the newer ones which I have), because that was and is not the case with me. I find that I can now "hear into the music" like never before with my SR cabling, etc., which I really enjoy. The realism is not exaggerated but just "there".

Tbg, "Trelja, I will let others decide whether there was any ethical issue in my wanting to do a review on these speakers but the importer's unwillingness to put a pair out for review and my buying them after being very impressed with them at the RMAF."

We are the "others" you talk about. I've received plenty of offline correspondence to back that up, and thus, our raising these issues. Ray Charles would have no trouble reading into "the importer's unwillingness to put a pair out for review" when it comes to you writing them up. Let's not try to revise history, that episode precipiated your firing from the reviewing position.

Tbg, "I afraid, in my opinion you only make snide remarks."

I sincerely doubt one who has paid any attention over the 10+ years I've been a part of this site could say that with a clear conscience.

Tbg, "Furthermore, I cannot see what relevance this has on this thread."

See my first paragraph. In other words, what you bring the discussion in terms of how you've obtained the product, and its corollary, what the truth actually is.

Bvdiman, there is little denying that Siltech is excellent. I had several of the Compass Lake and Emperor cables. I would love to be able to compare the top SRs with the Siltechs. I am not certain which would be more realistic.

And oh as to be more relevant to thread, imo one of the better cable maker implementing silver gold technology is Siltech--best of both world. Try auditioning one that's within your budget (used most likely), to get a taste of their sound. Good luck!

Enamored by the recent hype, for the past two weeks I have been home auditioning the SR Tesla A and Absolute Ref power cords. I must say that their house sound are unmistakable, (I own the Designer Ref2 and Apex ic's for some years). Almost always impressive at first listen (that's why i bought their ic's then), after which it gets a bit tiring over time. Too energetic (forceful) lows (mostly), highs (slightly)--over emphasized imo. With slightly recessed mids which can at times sound quite thin (pc), their ic have better fuller mids with nice palpable bloom. Both lines are very very quiet, hence good resolution and great sound staging. But somehow still not for me, as I felt there's still a slight bit too much equalization going on with their cable for my taste--albeit in a much lesser degree with their current Tesla Line. However, I can also see that how in some system, given their strength, they will no doubt sound spectacular. This time around, I think I will settle for the cheaper PS Audio AC12 pc (same dealer loan btw), which in my current system sounded just more natural and relaxed--better balanced across the frequency range and more organic sounding (richer, fleshier midrange).

Trelja, I will let others decide whether there was any ethical issue in my wanting to do a review on these speakers but the importer's unwillingness to put a pair out for review and my buying them after being very impressed with them at the RMAF.

I afraid, in my opinion you only make snide remarks just like Bill Feil. Furthermore, I cannot see what relevance this has on this thread.

Tbg, "Give me examples of what you mean by mine with some documentation rather than snide remarks."

I'd say that Tidal speaker review you dangled out there post RMAF2009 was enough to score a ZERO in a class or have one's career taken away from them. Documentation right here on this website.

What about your ethic problems? Give me examples of what you mean by mine with some documentation rather than snide remarks.

I rest my case.

Funny stuff pops.

Most products you like aren't worth representing.

Now about those ethics problems.........

LOL

I would suggest to anyone putting credence in anything posted by Audiofeil to read his many posts. He is a dealer disliking any positive statements on products he cannot sell.

I have been down the gold cable road and have learned that pure gold cables are too warm in my system. I agree that alloy cables sound much better. The latest product I have in house is the Pure Note Designers Edition. It is a silver-gold alloy. Compared to pure silver cables, it is very neutral with no edge. So the gold alloy properly executed does work but you will pay $$$ for these cables.

Readers really need to disregard tbg's comments on SR products.

His ethical issues regarding this line and a few others are well documented in numerous threads.

Tbg...You raise an interesting point about well designed halls. Partly because of differences in terms of preferred kinds of sounds among listeners, the issue of a good hall design may be more complex than typically assumed. Just to cite an example or two: The Concertgebouw in Amsterdam and the Musikverein in Vienna are considered by many to be at or near the top of the finest sounding concert halls in the world. Both are prized for their full, warm, ambient sonics. One of the salient points I tried to make in my previous comments was that quite a few audiophiles prefer a kind of sound in their home that would be pretty different from that heard in these two locales. I have no quibble with their preference for and enjoyment of that sort of sound. What I sometimes find troubling however is when upon hearing a likeness of the warmer, more rounded and softer edged kind of sound imparted by audio equipment different from their own, a fair number label it inaccurate. My question to them would be, "Inaccurate in what sense?" Is the sound emanating from those concert halls a violation of reality? Of course, colorations of different kinds are found virtually everywhere---in concert halls, sound component shops, one's home, stereo equipment and open air spaces. If one retorts with the statement, "I prefer a neutral sound", what does that mean? If it refers to an undoctored sound, then one cannot really get that with reproduced music. How can they with all the capacitors, resistors, switches, wires, drivers, microphones, etc.as well as all the twiddling of controls done by sound engineers at the recording site ? Yes, we pay our money and make our choices from among different sound illusions in the comfort of our homes. But when some of those illusions more closely resemble the actual colorations one hears at the original performance site(e.g., softer, warmer), why use the term, inaccurate? Indeed, the assertion of neutrality might more correctly apply in these cases where one's equipment is more accurately conveying those actual colorations from where they originate. And colorations they are, but why mischaracterize them as inaccurate? Otherwise,yes, some simply prefer a facsimile of the kind of sound one gets from being "inside" the performing ensemble, while others are drawn to 15th or 30th row sound or balcony sound...Lastly,in response to your comment about gold sounding smeared and unrealistic, I might just reiterate your allusion to making categoric statements.

Opus88, you mention sound concert hall sound being " fuller, warmer and softer." In some halls that is true, but it is hard to find an acoustically well designed hall. Also, much depends on where you sit. In short, I doubt again whether one can make categoric statements. I should also say that I have been in big orchestra and jazz band recordings. The dynamics of both where the mikes are located are quite different than what you hear in the audience.

You seem to lean toward the warmth of gold while I hear it as smeared and unrealistic. That is what makes horse races.

>>>I doubt, however, that any one of our personal opinions transfer to others<<< It's often tough for those opinions to make a significant dent on existing preferences, and sometimes existing prejudices. The taste for a particular kind of reproduced sound might also have little to do with what one might hear as live sound. For example, I once mentioned in another thread that the so-called neutral, clean, tight sound numerous audiophiles seem to prefer is rarely in evidence in the concert hall during a live performance, where the sound tends to be relatively fuller, warmer and softer in outline than electronically reproduced music. The kind of pinpoint localization, spotlighting and layering of instruments often heard on recordings is also fairly untypical of live performances. Further, despite the fact that orchestras are often recorded in empty halls or venues, sound engineers still regularly seem to lean toward bathing things in rather hyped hall ambience. Finally, one of the most telling things about many live orchestral concerts is that the highest dynamic peaks rarely irritate the ears in contrast to the many efforts designed to make reproduced music more listenable. Despite all of this, when it comes to listening to one's system in one's home, many still consider the neutral, clean, tight sound to be more realistic(as well as more enjoyable)than the aforementioned kind of live sound commonly encountered in many halls. Often, upon hearing that live kind of sound reproduced with components different from their own, they criticize it as being innacurate, because it's "too colored", "dull" or "dead".

My first gold cable was the Stealth Pure Gold Signal. It certainly was different from the silver cables I had had, such as the Kondo and several others. I ended up trading it for the Indra amorphous wires, which were much more realistic and less smeared. At some point I tried palladium wires. They are totally worthless in my opinion with no dynamics.

Next I visited the maker of Jade cables to decide whether I wanted the Gold or the Vermeil or gold on silver wires. There was no question in my opinion, the Vermeil were more real and less smeared and lifeless. Later I bought the Hybrids and never really could decide whether I still preferred the Vermeil or them.

I certainly have not listened to all gold cables, but I certainly will not seek them any more.

I think the main benefits of the Synergistic Research cables is charged cables and I must say that while I gradually introduced more and more into my system, each with an added benefit, it was the last that really consummated the outstanding sound.

I doubt, however, that any one of our personal opinions transfer to others. There probably is something going on when a large number agree, but even that is hazardous.

I concur with Mcondon, at least in regard to the Tesla Accelerator, which I had burned in for well over 200 hours and listened to extensively. I was never able to achieve a relaxed sound with it in my system. Very detailed, but fatiguing in my experience also. I have been using the KCI Silkworm+. Totally different story.

I have tried a few Synergistic Research products (ICs, a power cord, a PowerCell 6 power conditioner) and found them to create a slightly "hyper" sound signature that became fatiguing for me over long listening sessions. They are great if you want increased dynamics, but if your system is already high resolution, they only will make it more so.

I use Gabriel Gold Revelations and Raptures IC's throughout my system. I greatly prefer them to Synergistic Research ICs. Presentation is just more natural and extended.

So, some "gold based" fans like myself first tried Synergistic Research. However, you might not know it as writing anything negative about SR seems to be verboten.

interestingly has anyone noticed that the recent trend from audiogon sellers is pushing cables are using "exclusive mix of gold, silver, copper"?

Just like silnote, audiometallurgy, gabriel gold. I wonder if they are getting their wires from the same supplier...

Rilbr , On my Oppo BP83 SE , I am using Electraglide Silver interconnects on the the 5.1 Analog outputs and the Oppo 83SE sounds awesome.
All silver cables are not equal. Some have a much higher grade silver and have been treated in other ways.

A couple of things to say; Most of the successful "gold" interconnects are actually mixtures of gold and other metals. The reason the cable makers did this is because of the sound of all gold conductors described by Jnk and others. But gold does have a particular sound quality that other metals do not. This is why they keep some gold in their recipe.

I currently use a Gabriel Gold Rapture interconnect between Oppo SE player and a tubed preamp. It sounds great and was very much needed with the Oppo SE. Any interconnect or powercord with silver in it sounded unlistenable. Copper interconnects were good with the Oppo, but not as good as the GGR.

Interestingly though, I also use a Synergistic Powercell 10se which has some silver in the powercord. I did further tame it with an UberBuss and a Purist cord before the 10se.

Replacing the Synergistic cord (Precision AC) with others was not as good. It just sounds great now. I do plan on experimenting with more Gabriel gold and Synergistic cords in the rest of the system.

I guess my point is, they are both excellent products and are compatible. It greatly depends on the components used because of each component's sonic traits.

I suppose some may end up with, let's say all GG cables except for speaker cables with active sheilding (and maybe Speakercells), or all Synergistic active cables, except for the speaker cables being Gabriel Gold (again, maybe with Speakercells).

Anyway, I don't see how someone can go wrong with these products unless there is an obvious missmatch with a component.

Currently trying out the AU-79 interconnects and, frankly, I can't say that I am that impressed. In my system, they sound a little veiled and sluggish and with a slightly pronounced bottom end; nothing really that wrong with them, but I do prefer my current Alpha Sterlings by far.

Bullot, you are indeed lucky to have a local dealer. I have not had one for the last thirty years. But I do remember that I had few instances such as those you recounted. What you say, however, does not negate the totally implausibly of what he or she suggested as a SR "quirk." However, move forward and enjoy.

Well Tbg., he sells alot of different components. If you have a dealer and ask him which of his components or cables he likes best, he should be honest. If you go to your dealer and ask the technician, who does the repairs, which component is more reliable, he should tell you! This is what I call a good relationship with my/your dealer. Also, to be clear, he did not say something was wrong with them electrically......he said "SR has their quirks"...... At the time I was looking for a power conditioner, he sold a number and advised me to get the RSA Dmitri over the powercell........turns out the Dmitri is a 2009 product of the year in Absolute Sound I believe it was! I don't see in any way why I would question this mans integrity! The opposite lives in fact.

More surprisingly, I went to a dealer once trying to decide whether I should buy a Audio Research pre or a Nagra PLL.............this dealer sold AR and told me she prefered the Nagra! These inputs are only one small piece of info used when making a decision. So, what's wrong with an honest person.......even if they are a dealer! I know I appreciate it and when the time comes to purchase something I remember these people and call them first.

Bullot, I don't respect his integrity. He sounds like someone unknowing of anything electrical. Why would he be a SR dealer if he knew something was wrong with them electrically?

Sounds like a good idea Tbg........I was actually just reading on that yesterday, a polarity check. Electrical was part of my College instruction, be it many many years ago, so I was baffled too. Even though I could not explain it, it was there........it was my experience! I will look into the plug issue and report back. I did not look into the plug issue prior for a number of reasons; my room was built with all new wiring and plugs, electrical panel, etc., within the last year by a qualified electrician......and I've never had an issue until then, or since.... also,I did call a Synergistic dealer and I discussed the matter with him, and he was not floored like some here seem to be. I won't repeat what he told me because it's not my experience, and unsubstantiated, even though he was/is, an SR dealer.......and for that I appreciated his integrity!
I actually want to put a new custom outlet there anyways, so this will give me good reason to pull it. Might take a week or two to get back as I don't seen any time off in the next little while.

Bullot, what lends credence to your experience is that nothing else has happened since you stopped using charged cables. But like Shellie, I don't see any mechanism that this could happen. Were I you I would check whether the outlets you are or were using as to whether they are wired properly. There are little plug-ins that immediately tell you. If they are all correctly wired, I would just rest in peace.

Adwiegert, yes on the humidifier idea!! I actually just bought one before XMass........the better half says I'm snoring less too!! But, we're getting off topic I think.......(my fault) just wanted to put my 2 cents in on my Gold vs SR cable experience.

Sorry it sounds off to you Shellie! With the SR, everytime I touched something metal in the room, zap. Everytime I touched a component on my shelf, zap, static charge. My Anthem Statement D1 was put out of commission from a static charge, with the SR in the system. I had to send it 3600 Kilometers to Toronto to get it fixed, meanwhile my AV system is down! In 25 years I have never had that issue. With it out of the system the static charges from people touching, me touching the equipment, and me touching the rack......I would estimate, are down at least 90%, with the intensity of the shock also down considerably. If I am the only person in the world that this has happened to, I'm ok with that..........it didn't work for me in my system, in my home, for some reason, seriously! Like I said......I really liked it, best interconnect I had to that point, but I was not going to risk anymore equipment, sold it, and NO problems since! If everyone else with SR has no issues with them, awesome, but my experience has taken me away from SR. As for the dealer, no..........I'm not comfortable naming names. I respect peoples opinions, experience, and honesty and am not about to hang them out there because of something they told me in a private conversation. Right now I have Stealth Indra and Gabriel Gold in my system and love them both. Over the XMass holidays I auditioned a Gabriel Gold Rapture "R" speaker cable which was incredible, I suspect the Stealth may be replaced in my system in the near future. Gold is great!

Sorry Bullot but I have a system in a VERY DRY place (vacation home in Palm Springs Ca.) where the humidity drops into the low teens all the time. I have all SR Active Cables there and I have never noticed any increase in static electricity or any problem with the Active Shielding "charging my home with electricity". My neighbor also has SR Active cables (I turned him on to them) and he has no problems that I am aware of.

From what I understand regarding Active Shielding it is a 30 volt DC charge applied to the shield of a cable and is totally outside the signal path. Actually there is far more DC in the average active component (CD players, pre-amps, amps, etc.) then is found on the shield of Active SR cables.

I am not doubting you believe what you are posting but I cannot understand your claim nor have I been able to find anything regarding what you describe on any audio forum (aside from what you have posted here). After ten years of Acive cables from SR it will be interesting to see if all of a sudden a few reports like this surface. Out of curiosity who was the dealer that corroborated your theory? Also please describe in detail what exactly you mean by "charged your room with electricity" from a 30 volt bias?! This all sounds a little off to me- sorry.

Maybe you should try some type of humidifier?

I talked to the dealer I purchased the cable from, he had never heard of it. Another deal whom I had no affiliation whatsoever, said he has heard of such annomolies. I am in Alberta Canada, and when it gets to be -30c or -40c and the furnace is running all the time, it gets pretty dry. Your skin flakes if you don't use moisturizer, lips dry out, etc. Don't want to get into a "who's area is dryer" conversation.......I guess I didn't give it much more of a chance......nobody could pinpoint why it happened and I didn't want to take anymore chances with expensive equipment. Just my experience! It's really too bad, because I loved the cable! (Digital cable)

Bullot, did you ask the people at Synergistic Research about this? I have had no problem with this in NM where it is also quite dry.

Interesting read! I have Gabriel Gold, tried the Revelation and the Rapture, as well as the new Reflection and Rapture R. I have in the past tried SR and really liked it, however.....the active shielding charged my whole room with static! In fact I ended up shorting out my Processor when I touched the stand and had to send it away to get repaired. I don't know why this was, and at the time I did not put it all together, but then I took it out of the system and no static! Put it back in to be sure, and......static! It was not a subtle amount of static, you could feel the charge anywhere in the room, so, I have no choice but to not use cables with active shielding.

It should be said that I do live in a very dry climate where static is somewhat of a problem to start with, and perhaps I had a cable with an issue, but the fellow I sold it to has had no issue, living in Vancouver might be why! Not exactly a dry climate there!!

Rilbr, I agree that it does not take much gold to make it evident. We disagree, I suspect, if this is good or bad.

One way you guys can have the active sheilding and the gold is to use gold hook-up wire in your components, and the SR cables between the components.

It doesn't take much gold to get the sound qualities of gold.

Also interesting is there are a couple of speaker manufacturers that use the Active Sheilding inside the speakers.

Frankk,
SR makes a warm ballance IC and SC. It's called Acoustic Reference. You could have thrown in a pair of Acoustic SC's with your Accelerators and whaala, instant warmth WITH a holographic sound stage.

As I said, the Synergistic Tesla Series allows for great flexibility by design.

Well I must agree that the SR Accelerator I owned did have the rare ability to sound natural and yet expand the soundstage. The other few cables and power cords that I have tried which were what I would describe as natural sounding, I also found their biggest downfall was the soundstage got smaller.

I don't know if it is just a case of some cables just choking off part of the upper mid/high frequency spectrum which contributes to a more ear friendly experience but at the same time a smaller soundstage.

I would be interested in how SR pulls it off and if the other so called "natural" sounding cables (Kubala, Jade, Gabriel Gold, Purist, and others) are able to get around this hand in hand weakness.

Frankk,
No cable in my experience has the sound stage of Active SR cables. All other cables compress the imaging in my experience. I would have stuck with the Accelerators and added one of thier T3 power cords to warm up my system- that's how the Tesla system works. Depending on what you are looking for SR has a combo of Tesla cables that will deliver. Theirs is a system approach to cable / system matching with different cables and power cords to create a desired outcome.

At this point and given the fact you've taken a hit when you sold your Accelerators, and given your budget, why don't you try a used pair of SR Designers Reference X2 interconnects. They are on the warm/bass heavy side and they're Active so they are holographic. Just a thought.

Frankk - I certainly understand your hesitation to sink a bunch of money into a cable without being very confident that it's going to work in your system. I have done that, only to be disappointed. For what it's worth, I believe a used pair of GG Revelation MKii's would be in the price range you're looking for. I have not heard them personally, but the folks over on the GG thread describe them as having a strong family resemblance to the Raptures.

As far as other suggestions, I'm afraid I can't be of much help. My experiences are limited, and I have always found choosing cables difficult and a little frustrating. I have read good reviews of some of the Audio Metallurgy gold cables, which are in the price range you mentioned, but I have no first hand experience with them.