Why Do You Still Have Vinyl if You Don't Play it?
I kept my fathers Cannon AE-1 Program with all the original boxes, tags, receipt and manuals. He also had several lenses and filters all in 9-10 condition. He passed in 2003. We both loved photography and music and I could not bring myself to get rid of it back then. Any clue what it would be worth to a collector? |
Sold my vinyl and all my film cameras, luckly before hey lost too much value. Then late one night with too much timeon my hands I fell victim to the need to figit and tinker. The very next morning I went straight to the pound and bought two friskey new puppies. Youll get over it honest. Once you question it, its done. Youre in denial |
I think it comes down to nostalgia. LPs sound different, there is no getting around that (I said different, not better) But there are clear advantages to digital, especially hi-res. I think there is no coincidence that almost all my LPs are from the 70s and 80s (I am 37, see where I am going with this?). The sounds takes us back. Flipping records takes us back. There is a reason I also have a modest collection of CEDs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitance_Electronic_Disc. With CEDs, Blu-ray is FAR superior in every way (heck, even LaserDisc is superior!) but it looks the way video did as a kid, just as vinyl sounds like music did. I would guess when you do listen to vinyl, you are in that kind of mood. Pare down your collection, but keep the music that is imprinted on times of your past. |
I have about 1000 Lp's...I thinned them down from 5000 around 8 years ago...The sonic refinement of CD's and associated playback equipment seems to have improved greatly in the past few years. Because of the comparable simplicity and ease of using CD's I find myself growing more and more lazy...I used to find the "ritual" of selecting an Lp...removing the jacket from its vinyl sleeve..removing the LP from it's inner sleeve..setting it on the platter..setting the pressure clamp..using the static gun & using the dust brush well worth it because of vastly superior sonics. Now all that occurs to me is that I have to put it all back when it's finished. I've got some really great stuff..(I'm an acoustic jazz lover)..I've decided to put some time into making high quality CD's from the probably 100 or so LP's that have both performance and sonic worthiness..The third requirement will be a quiet surface...There's no fast way to do this. I have a product called a "Super Scope"..I believe it was designed by Marantz..It is a studio grade pro-gear CD recorder and the quality of reproduction is truly excellent. I don't know if I'll be able to part with my hard won and precious vinyl..but at least this way I'm going to listen to all the wonderful music. |
Like many here, I've gone back and forth with this very experience. I had a collection of 1,000+ back in the late 80's that I sold off in bulk when CDs overtook my musical life. My regret was not hanging on to some of my favorites and collectibles. On three separate occasions I've done the same thing with my CD collection - only hanging on to a handful of favorites and/or collectibles. Most recently, I've dumped my favorite CDs since I have them all ripped to FLAC on multiple hard drives (which is how I predominantly listen to music now anyway) and kept only the collectibles. They are stored in a box and will get sold off when the economy is better and people are willing to buy such things again. All this said, I bought a turntable a few years ago and picked up some old favorites cheap and have fallen in love all over again. Mostly, it is acoustic jazz where vinyl just does it for me - even more so than my high resolution digital versions. So my advice is; Get rid of the bulk and listening to what is convenient and makes you happy (I do file based network audio). BUT hold on to your favorites and collectibles - even if it means boxing them up and putting them in a closet for now. In ten or twenty years you will likely cherish the memories and the experience again. |
Nsgarch; your post is well stated and written. I guess the point I was trying to make but failing, was that the music was great using my digital format, but when I actually listened to vinyl and more importantly, compared using the same recordings in digital and vinyl, this showed me clearly what I am missing in digital. This is not to say that digital isn't great now. it is very good. However, there still are great differences between the formats. Not as wide a gap as before, but everyone I know that has listened to digital and then to vinyl (especially the ones that are not into music or audiophiles), jaws drop at the differences they hear. To me, and my absolute enjoyment of good music, this is why I still have vinyl. When a format comes that is compact as digital and as good or better than vinyl in terms of sound stage reproduction, dept, etc. I have no problem moving to that new format. having albums around and turn tables and phono stages, etc. and cds all over the place does take up room. I would love to have a music server/DAC do everything as well or better than my analog equipment. Unfortunately, it is not there yet and when it does come out, initially, I wouldn't be able to afford it anyway. So to me, it isn't about storage or space it always has been about the music. I played classical music via violin, oboe, bassoon, clarinet, sax, etc. I have a real problem if the reproduced music doesn't sound like I know it should. The worst part as I mentioned previously, is one can get use to a certain sound reproduction and come to believe it is accurate, and then listen to a different set up or analog and understand that they really are missing something. so, really,,,enjoy |
Mitch, it occured to me that perhaps this last part of your OP is the 'real' question: I don't know what it's going to take for me to let go.My own answer would be that whatever 'it' is (that it would take for me to let go) it would be outside of any 'audio considerations'. It would be something more 'life affecting' like: a fire, or an illness, or a physical move to smaller accomodations; something like that. In his preceeding post, Minorl again recounts a (purely anecdotal) experience many/most of us have had: comparing the same piece of music in different formats. But for me, and for many people (including Minorl, I bet ;--) the likelyhood of having a given piece of music in multiple formats is nil. Which is why, earlier in this thread, it suggested that when viewed through the lens of "the music", the idea of completely abandoning a particular format sort of goes out the window ;--) And as a matter of fact (coming back to Minorl's experience) one evening a friend and I assembled all the music we could find between both our collections which we had in two or more formats. This included not only LP's and CD's, but reel-to-reel and cassette. We even had a few selections in all four formats! And the startling and unexpected outcome, was that there was no clear winner or loser! At one point not long ago, I had considered doing some serious culling (of all my 'formats'.) Then I remembered that years and years ago, I had done just that -- and lived to regret it. So once again I say, "if you hang on to the music, you'll never have reason to regret it." . |
I think the discussions were on track. They drifted because discussions do that. Why people don't play their vinyl? Well, many reasons were listed and I will list some also that I can think of. 1. Lazy 2. Cleaning records to the extent that by the time you are done you have lost all of your time. 3. Getting up every few minutes to change sides. 4. New and better phono stages require upgrading. I guess this could be true for CD transports and DACs also. 5. Totally forgot how much better analog recording/playback is to digital and can no longer remember the difference. The other night, I was at home with a friend listening to music. I have a McIntosh Labs music server through a Theta DS Pro Gen III DAC. I also have a stand alone CD Transport through a Theta DS Pro Gen VA DAC and also my Sota Star Turn Table through an Audio Research phono stage. We had a blast listening to great music and comparing. We listened to music via the music server/DAC combo. It was great. Then, I switched to the same CD via my CD transport/DAC combo. Night and day difference. Much more open sound and sound stage via the CD Transport DAC. Oh and by-the-way, the music server digital output through the gen VA day sounds not close to as good as the CD transport DAC combo. but wow! great sound. CD transport made you not want to get up. Then, I swithed to the album and turn table for the same recording and lo and behold, extreme night and day difference. The Turn Table/phono stage combo versus the music server and CD elements was wonderful. It reminded me why I listen to albums. I remind myself all the time why I need to take the time to clean my records and listen. One can get complacent listening to digital and then when you go and compare. You match levels and listen. The turn table analog sound is just wonderful. So add complacency to the list also as to why people don't listen. But, for fun. turn your system on. Get the cd of your favorite music and the album (recorded analog, not from digital). match levels on your pre-amp and sit back and listen. enjoy. |
Or maybe another reason, unconscious perhaps, is what happened to me the other day, spending an afternoon listening to some great music on a pair of Quad 2905s on a really fine vinyl rig, a "you are there" joyful experience that never happens with digital as much as I enjoy the convenience of that format. I'm no vinylphile either, believe me, and it isn't this vs that however..... I would keep your beloved recordings and dump the rest. What is for sure is that if you do have any regrets later, probably unlikely but still possible, you can't go back to where you are now so maybe a compromise is in order, for now. One of those experiences may happen to you at some time in the future and your interest may be rejuvenated, another perspective. |
. 1.)IÂ’m lazy: I don't want to lose any of the music, but don't want to take the time to transfer it. Nsgarch, your four points are dead-on. I guess I just didn't want to face it or admit it. I don't know what it's going to take for me to let go. . |
Mitch -- I agree, this shouldn't be a discussion about formats. Which is why I proposed the idea that there are no "old formats". I realize now that 'old' was a poor choice of words; by 'old' I didn't mean a format's chronological age. so much as a format's viability as a storage medium for MUSIC. In other words, I believe ALL formats are viable means for storing music. So, assuming the MUSIC is the issue, and not the records per se, when you say "I think it's time for me to let go." I take it to mean that you are OK with letting go of the MUSIC on those LP's, and with it, the LP's themselves. And that's a perfectly legitimate position; especially if you've taken the time to transfer ALL that music to another (more convenient) format. Why not? You can have your cake and eat it too ;--) For me, there are additional reasons why I would hang on to the LP's themselves (rather than transfer their contents to CD's, tape, or a hard drive.) So, assuming I have room for them, here are some of those 'other' reasons I keep my LP's: 1.) I'm lazy: I don't want to lose any of the music, but don't want to take the time to transfer it. 2.) I'm cheap: I don't want to buy the hardware necessary to do the transferring properly. 3.) Even if 1 and 2 were not factors, I'd still worry about losing the transferred content -- both physically, and/or to some as-yet-unrecognized form of 'digital' deterioration'. 4.) And, as others have mentioned, my not wanting to give up (or have to transfer) that (sometimes great) cover art and liner notes -- which I still enjoy reading or re-reading. And Mitch, despite the wording of your title, even YOU admit to playing your vinyl SOMETIMES ;--) You've bought the gear; you have the room (I assume); so why pitch it? You'll never get the money out. Are you worried about what happens when you croak?! Don't! . |
. Just to put everyone back on track again with the original post. I was asking why do you still have vinyl if you DON'T PLAY IT. The intent of the post was intended for those who have pretty much given up on vinyl and play digital 99% of the time. The argument about whether one format is superior to the other has no place in this thread. Also, if you are still playing a lot of vinyl and prefer playing vinyl over digital, this thread is not intended for you. So please, no more posts here about how great vinyl is, this thread is for those of us that have left vinyl and have moved on. Again, I have TWO TURNTABLES and spend more time dusting them off and keeping them clean than I do playing them. So, I already know how good vinyl is, I have 3,000 LP's to remind me....that was never the point. |
Every recording and/or playback technology will have drawbacks. Vinyl is better than current digital at the moment. But with rediculously expensive digital system, they are sometimes better. The analog to digital converters and clock system must be top notch and sample at rates so high the resulting signal will look like analog. We aren't there yet. So, I have both analog and digital. When I really want to hear the soul of music, it is definitely analog. However, my digital rig is very good also. My CD transport through my DAC sounds wonderful. I do remember however, that back in the day, reel to reel blew away vinyl. But it was a serious pain to record to tape unless you bought directly from the master tape recording to reel to reel. But I can tell you that tape produced that way was much better (to me) than vinyl. But for now, until digital surpasses vinyl, which it will eventually in one form or another, a very good vinyl rig is still better. But not by much anymore. However, a very good vinyl rig will seriously blow away an inexpensive digital set up if the DAC is not very good. enjoy |
Khrys, you directed your posting to me and in reading such my understanding was you preferred your Sooloos to your vinyl front end mentioned which is funny and only tells me ... adding to your post you added the sacasm directed to me saying; Too bad for you "it's game over". Mine's still going on. I find individuals of such going this route for convenience which is okay, it's your system and your choice and opinion so enjoy, no need to debate. I also realize you have a 6TB server fronted by a MacBook Pro/Amarra that you prefer over the Sooloos, so what. That all being said you were the one who initiated originally and not me so I responded to such and now you seem to want to step that up by adding; "You should take your head out of your Stereotactic Device and get out a little more." also saying; Why don't you post it on Virtual Systems as any pre-sexagenarian surely can do? Firstly WOW! using the word "sexagenarian" must be describing yourself, a person who is 60 years old or between the ages of 60 and 70. Sorry but I'm in my 40's and don't need to use a piano to calibrate my ears, that was so funny what you posted had me rolling around on the floor. 10-07-00: Khrys My 1992 Steinway M recalibrates my ears daily. Khrys My system, thanks yes I agree as you mentioned above my system involves ... highly precise and complex instruments. I don't need to get out more, maybe you need to take your own advise. Also I see no need to post but looking at your picks in general they look very nice. Enjoy! |
Khrys, if you are a computer geek, you may not need this advice, but here goes.. Abandon the RAID array, and buy a Drobo. I have just installed my second Drobo, and although a bit more pricey than a RAID array, it is so much simpler. Mine is a Drobo FS. Just load the software and plug the Drobo via LAN into the back of your router and instant backed up network storage. I put in (5) 2TB drives, that give me 8 TB of storage with back up. If any 2 of the drives fail at once, I can just swap them out for new ones with no loss of information. The Drobo tells you what's up with drives, and manages everything. Much simpler than when I had RAID array, and much easier to maintain. |
Dev, to paraphrase your own advice to Timrhu on 8/6/11, no disrespect but if you re-read my posting on 8/7/11 you'll find that you left something out. Namely the 6TB server fronted by a MacBook Pro/Amarra setup. 8/7/11 is after my post you pulled up from 7/15/11 expressing disatisfaction with the Sooloos so please explain to me what is so funny? And yes the Sooloos will be for sale as soon as I transfer all the data the RAID. I'm glad you find yourself so amusing convoluting other people's posts. You should take your head out of your Stereotactic Device and get out a little more. You have a great system. Why don't you post it on Virtual Systems as any pre-sexagenarian surely can do? |
Ballywho, I have some old 78's also that I recorded to CD and then ripped to music server. I bought an old Admiral ceramic cart record player that plays 78's for $10 at a yard sale. Then I used my Denon recorder to burn to CD. Then I ripped to music server like any other CD. The recordings are pretty good. The sound of the 78s comes through, flaws and all, but the sound is similar to what I've heard recently when a dealer played me several old 78s on several restored Victolas, minus perhaps some of the artificial horn speaker artifacts that gives an actual Victrola an authentically appealing touch of warmth. These are a lot of fun and very enjoyable to listen to at a touch of a button off the music server! A nice mix of teh old and new! |
Let me add that I have a relatively large collection of 78's dating from the early oughts (or is it aughts?). These I will *not* be getting rid of, if not solely for historical reasons. There's something about these discs and the music on them that will always fascinate me... And they're all perfectly flat! Something that just can't seem to be mastered, even in 2011. I guess that's good ol' shallac for ya. Cheers, Mark |
. Mark, you may have something there. I remember when the first iMac came out, it didn't have a floppy drive. It was the first computer to omit a floppy drive. Well, that was just unheard of. The next few desktops that I owned, I made sure that they were configured with a floppy drive. Never mind that no one was using floppy disks any longer....I wanted one on my machine "just in case". I kept getting floppy drives on my machines until I was told "um, sir, we don't do that anymore". Same thing with a land line in my home. Several years ago a co-worker mentioned that he had gotten rid of his land line and was using his cell phone as his only telephone. That was blasphemy! How can you not have a phone in your home? I woke up several years later and noticed that I rarely used my home phone because everyone in the house had their own cell phone. I also looked at how AT&T was socking it to me every month for the bill for the land line that I never used. I got rid of my land line and have never missed it. In hindsight, I should have dropped the land line years ago. . |
I feel I don't really have the authority to say this, but it's my opinion, none the less... Ditch it. The only regrets you may have - at least at this point, after you've pretty much come to your own conclusion - might be the sentimental value of any of the recordings. If that's not present, then move on. I found myself agonizing over the whole damned process, and found that I spent more time fiddling with things than just listening to the music. The Squeezebox + a decent DAC changed everything, at least for me. Cheers, Mark |
Ha! Ha! no just threw out that number. So Unoear are you getting rid of your tables and replacing them with a Sooloos? I read Khrys has one possibly for sale. 07-15-11: Khrys Anyone want to buy a Sooloos? I'll have one for sale shortly. Their typically unhelpful support is less amusing since it is now useless. Khrys |
Khrys, and your point is? Was that before or after you wrote; 07-15-11: Khrys Anyone want to buy a Sooloos? I'll have one for sale shortly. Their typically unhelpful support is less amusing since it is now useless. Khrys Sounds like you must be in your 60's and frustrated, what's next .... I gotta laugh when I read such postings |
I have to chuckle when the come back is; "I have never owned a hi-end analog set-up" and "I gave up listening for that purpose as my hearing is deteriorating and I no longer feel qualified to judge at that level." Sorry to read for your loss but honestly with no disrespect I would not clasify your red book or system as a whole as hi-end either but do enjoy. You seem to want to start a debate with me, don't see you responding to the remark suggesting vinyl sucks made which raises a flag to me, it's appears to me you have a hidden agenda. That statement is so far from being the thruth and ONLY demonstrates lack of credibility from that poster. I guess I really need to spell it out for you, I never said the specific words "my opinion". Try reading again, I'll help you, look for key words like; "I would have to totally disagree" and "I've had" those are "my opinion" got it. Really makes me wonder how one can judge such if they haven't had in their own set-up and lived with it but seem compelled to push those keys for others to read misleading them. As I said prior; A top notch digital set-up can be very nice which I've had but once vinyl is played well it's game over, it's as simple as that. Enjoy! I would say @$50K that's a pretty high-end red-book set-up. |
Dev Sorry, but I reread your post and did not find "my opinion" in there. While I have never owned a hi-end analog set up, I have listened to them. Which is better is purely subjective IMO. I gave up listening for that purpose as my hearing is deteriorating and I no longer feel qualified to judge at that level. I do agree with this though. Different strokes for different folks. And back at ya! |
Timrhu, no disrespect but if you re-read my posting I did say it was "my opinion" and you have also left some of my posting out. My personal exspearience is digital can't but obviously by reading your statements you just haven't heard a proper set-up like allot of others whom I see posting. If you don't get to hear such how can you make such comparisons and then make such statemens as you do, shows a lack of exspearience and credibility. If you like what ever source it maybe good for you, opinions are just that so enjoy! My current set-up; - MBL 101e speakers - Vac Statement 450 mono blocks - Vac Sig. MK2a pre-amp - MBL 1621a transport - Acustic Arts Ref Tube dac - TW Acustic Black Knight table placed upon a Minus K platform - Reed 12" arm with MSL Ultra BC cart - TW 10.5' arm with A90 cart - Stealth Audio cable through out. |
A top notch digital set-up can be very nice which I've had but once vinyl is played well it's game over, it's as simple as that. You should have mentioned that's your take because I would have to totally disagree when you suggest digital can't hold a candle to vinyl, you really had me laughing! Funny how these things can go both ways. |
Missioncoonery wrote; "Sold most of my vinyl years ago" "Fiddled with it for a few months trying this and that and after alot of cash and time relized it sucked compared to digital and dumped it all..Vinyl,forgetaboutit!!!!" You should have mentioned that's your take because I would have to totally disagree when you suggest vinyl sucks compared to digital, you really had me laughing! A top notch digital set-up can be very nice which I've had but once vinyl is played well it's game over, it's as simple as that. Different strokes for different folks. Enjoy! |
. I also offered the records to my 21 year-old daughter. She was nearly offended by my offer. Too low-tech for her and she isn't that thrilled about jazz. Besides, she doesn't have the space in her apt. If I gave them away, I'd like them to go to a place where I could at least 'visit' them every now and then. My 14 year-old son is a violinist entering his freshman year at a performing arts high school in LA. He also plays guitar. There is a guy that lives in my building that buys up vinyl collections. I've bought several LP's from him over the years. I'll get him to teach my son and I how to grade them. Then I'll let my son sell them here or on eBay. It will be a great project for my son to teach him how to earn a few bucks. Most of my LP's are jazz. I'll let him keep all of the proceeds from the sale to buy himself a nicer violin. I'm sure during the process he's going to have lots of questions about the artists as he's cataloging them and preparing them for sale. He should easily get $3k for the whole kit and caboodle after it's all said and done. $3k should get him a pretty nice violin. . |
Mitch, The only convenient way to get rid of them and feel good about it is to give them to someone you know who'll appreciate them IMO. My secretary's husband had a huge vinyl collection in the attic that he didn't play for about 20 years. He didn't have the time nor patience to grade them and sell them. He gave them to me under a few conditions - I had to take them all - no rummaging through them to only take what I wanted I wouldn't sell anything The stuff I didn't want would go to another vinyl head or a library or similar place It's been about 3 years. He has no regrets. I've given away a good portion of the albums to friends on another forum. All I asked was they pay shipping. Just some food for thought. |
Sold most of my vinyl years ago,thought it would be great to get back into it.Bought a nice LP12,new arm,power supply,3 cart,phon pre,cables,cleaners,stand yada yada.Fiddled with it for a few months trying this and that and after alot of cash and time relized it sucked compared to digital and dumped it all..Vinyl,forgetaboutit!!!! |
Mitch, thanks for starting this thread. It's a topic so many of us think about, so it's refreshing to read everyone's slant on the issue. They are many, and they each make sense -- to someone -- sort of -- which is why I think it remains such a 'sticky' problem. And though 'what to do' with large vinyl collections represent the most widespread concern, it's not really just a 'vinyl' issue is it? I mean, think of those 'digital only' folks who are currently wrestling with: Should I just put all my CD's on a server and get rid of the software, etc? And it's the same I expect for those in to 78's, mono LP's, R2R, cassettes, and (who knows?!) even 8-track! Recently, about to enter my eigth decade. I thought, maybe there's another way to define this 'problem'. What if I say, as a personal policy, there are no "old formats"? What if instead, I take the position that; "the music (or performance) is where I find it, or have it, in MY collection", no matter in what format it happens to be? Suddenly the choice/decision is what it always has been for me, namely; "What music or/performnce do I feel like hearing right now?" I don't expect everyone to see it this way, but it works for me and has eliminated much of the anxiety about what to keep and what to pitch without feeling bad about it, regardless of format.. BTW, I have nothing against background music or shuffle-play (I call it "chewing gum for the ears") but if that's all I need at the moment, I (still) have radio; and now internet streaming, XM, and of course making one's own mixes -- whether on a CD, iPod, server, or (God forbid!) a cassette ;--) . |
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Sold mine five or six years ago after realizing they weren't going to get played. I auctioned them off here in sets of ten lps or so. If you go this route don't expect a huge windfall but I didn't do it for the money. Just wanted the lps to go to someone who could appreciate them. I kept a hundred or so for sentimental reasons but no longer have a tt to play them on. Do I ever miss them? Maybe a little. But I also miss smoking every once in a while. CDs, and especially my Mac Mini, are just too convenient. And I'm extremely happy with the sound. If you don't enjoy the ritual, what's the point? It's just a matter of time. |
Would one want to discard all of thier books once you can do all of your reading on the ipad? This hobby, at least for me,is not just about, a quick end result. Being a gearhead, means that music coming from a computer file, leaves me cold and unsatisfied. Taking out an old lp, brings me back to the day and place and time I bought it. Yes 5,000 lps may be way too much to handle, but as my father used to say, its much better to have it than not |
My wife was asking the same question. My present setup doesn't include a full function preamp so for the last seven years I've run my cd player into my amp and haven't been able to. Got the itch to play some vinyl again so off to the races we go getting the right combination of "stuff". It's been sooo easy, so simple but it's time to man up and get back to playing my albums of which there are easily over a thousand waiting to be listened to. |
