Dear Thuchan: +++++ " discussing with you on the merits of equipment or technology. " +++++
this is part of your " problem ". I'm not discussing about eqipment or equipment technology i'M TALKING ABOUT A CONCEPT an overall " scenario " where equipment is part of it and that's it. I take that tube technology only as an example: why with that technology you can't achieve quality performance levels of EXCELLENCE.
Thuchan, those two different speakers ( an almost any known speakers. Including yours. ) that I linked can't be handled for any known tube amplifier to achieve levels of Excellence. There are many whys it can't but enough is to say: because the tube amplifier output impedance can't match the speaker electrical impedance/phase curve.
Main part of my " concept " is to attain Excellence levels on system performance.
Very important part of the " concept " is to lower and choose very low distortions on each audio link, We have to be very careful here because there are many ways for an audio item ( electronics ) to achieve low distortions. One of those paths are the use on the electronic design feedback " tons " of feedback but this has a " penalty " that goes against that " lively and emotional " target. Other road/path is to use ICs ( instead discrete circuits. ) on the electronic designs to go lower on distortions but things are that ICs use " tons " of feedback db to lower distortions. This is what normally Japanese electronic designs used ( good specs and bad quality performance. ) and not only Japanese audio items but some in USA and today in Europe like the german ASR designs.
The speakers/room has a main role on that UNIVERSAL concept. If we take care on the audio system links choosed and we are not having that " lively and emotional " performance then those speakers are the " wrong " system link and we have to change it, it does not matters that we paid for it 250K dollars or whatever.
The Concept is not " married " with any single audio link in the system even is not " married " with you but with the end targets.
Not all of us could attain that Excellence level, mainly because at " some moment/time " we not only need the knowledge-skills and tools to do it but probably we will need Money to do it because we maybe have to change some audio links in our system and this means money.
Now, I'm not saying that money is the main factor to do it, certainly it is not. We can't achieve Excellence levels only with money: all over the net there are a lot of big big dollars system that sounds good but far away from that Excellence levels status.
+++++ " BTW I do not add distortions. Why should I? " +++++
with all respect your statement has no meaning coming from a person like you.
Now, if that is what you really think then " you are unaware of nothing on audio: digital or analog ". I think, maybe I'm wrong, that you are better than that.
Thuchan, my two examples: RIAA deviation and output impedance, were only the tip of the iceberg on the technology you are using, there are a lot a lot of disadvantages but it is useless to analize because that is not the subject. The subject is the Concept.
+++++ " At the moment I am pretty sure you need to listen to an "excellent tube system" " +++++
things are ( other than the tube items I owned for years. ) that the high-end audio in my country is not only small one but fully concentrated in México city where I live. Over the years this fact gives me the opportunity to been and be in touch with any single audio dealer/distributor ( all are my friends now. ) that permit me to hear on showrooms and in my own system almost anything you can name it. The Audio Note distributor ( close friend. ) permit me to set up a triamp system through the Ongacu's and this was only one of my experiences with " excellent tube system " as you name it.
Maybe you need to change those archaic/jurasic audio friends or at least that do not affect or influence in your sane audio judgements, don't be active part of the " dark " side of the AHEE. The AHEE does cares about objectivity/specs/measurements not because goes against MUSIC/SOUND REPRODUCTION but because goes against today audio Busines$$$. This " dark " side of the AHEE takes ( for many years past and I don't know for how many more in the future ) advantage of the customer high ignorance level. Ignorance level that they promoted over last 50 years. THEY DON'T WANT THAT YOU AND ME AND EVERYONE CAN LEARN because when we learn they will be trapped in their own " wrong/bad " game. Information means POWER and audio customers have no POWER ( even that we mantain the whole AHEE with our money. ) because the AHEE " decided " not to share that Power with us.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
That's why we are surrounded of mediocrity, that's why some of us are still trapped on the mediocrity.
The main subject on this regard is: why we that are not mediocre people accept that mediocrity with out claim nothing against it but even supported that mediocrity? WHY?
Raul. |
The AHEE DOES NOT cares.... |
Henry, Both knees at once? You definitely do deserve a sponge bath from a "private duty" nurse.
Raul, I am sorry to have made that crack about your need to feel superior, but you must know it is very aggravating to discuss these matters with you, because you give no one room to disagree with your approach. And you are not really paying attention to my responses. |
Dear Raul, As you have an extensive experience designing your own RIAA, I suggest you to try an all tube alternative, that comes also from your own personal work. The reason is the unaccebtable mediocrity of the mass production tube units that are available. This mediocrity is spreaded on everything inside, from the basic circuit, to the power supply, to the whole execution of the wiring and the chosen valves at work. Things can be of a major change if you apply many steps of regulation using solid state componentry to regulate the current & the voltage of the regulation tubes. It is a good opportunity if you can find some spear time. Please erase of your memory all of your disappointing auditions of the past. They were all not worthy of your high standards. The production cost for making an axcellent tube unit is unimaginable. |
Dear Raul, Concerning tubes and ICs. I question the wisdom of your approach in an epistemological sense. I refute all absolutes in this regard. I know there are exceptions to these rules. The output impedance is not always a limiting factor. While an IC might have negative feedback the benefit can outweigh. Just like a tube circuit, regulation and configuration can make all the difference. The proof is in the sound or the measurement, not in a philosophy that rules things out. I could say that transistors all sound bad and that they are incapable of voltage swings. They stack one on another all lined up and multiply their lack of fidelity and little constrained sound, but I won't. Regards, |
Dear Geoch: Good coincidence, I was tempted several times to do it but I never decided to start that " trip ".
Yes, I agree that a non-comercial$$$ good tube design where exist the correct understanding of tube technology to enrich its advantages and " vanish " its disadvantages could gives rewards against commercial units but for today I can think on that " enterprise " maybe I have to change my targets because if it is true that things could be improved it is tru too that are tube technology limitations that could preclude levels of Excellence.
The SS technology has its own advantages and disadvantages but its limitations IMHO does not preclude the achievement of levels of Excellence, all depend of each knowledge designer level as in tube too.
Btw, yes execution of electronics designs is critical and yes there are today tube units that when you open and see inside you know where the mediocrity came.
And yes too, the importance on a good power supply ( against an average one. ) design makes a paramount difference either on SS or tube electronics.
What we audio hyperactive enthusiast need is time, we need a lot more than 24 hours on each day.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Fleib: +++++ " While an IC might have negative feedback the benefit can outweigh. " +++++
IMHO outweight " nothing ". Do you know why a designer build a unit around ICs?. I know the answers but is useless to tell you, I think is better if you find out the reasons real reasons for such kind of designs where quality performance is not the main target.
About tubes I think is more " healthy " if we leave things in its current status because IMHO there is no worst " fight/war " that start one that is loosed right from the begin: no one can win trying to " defend " tube technology and in the other side this is not the subject on my last posts. I'm not against tube technology per se, it is only that this technology can't IMHO help to make things easy to work on the Concept, that's all.
Fleib, there are levels different levels for anything and for quality performance in audio is no exception: tube tecnology has a different level and I prefer to leave this way before go in deep about.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Lewm: I'm n ot against FR tonearms per se or just for " fun ". I owned no less than six times the 66 and 64 models and I live happy with till I design the Concept to understand where I was " seated " and then understand what the FR was doing and what was not doing and I learned that that tonearms have higher distortions than other tonearms that affect and degrade the cartridge signal more than other tonearms.
I left the FR " episode " behind years ago but I conserve one FR64 that time to time I used to be sure nothing changed and to be sure that our tonearm design does not sounds with the FR quality perfromance level.
Lewm, this is at least the fifth time ( maybe more in other threads, including the two Agon deleted. ) that I post what I posted here. Please don't push me to go in deep on that useless subject that belongs to the " darkness " side of the AHEE ( Audio High End Establishment: for the newcomers to this thread. ), this is part of the mediocrity I'm talking about.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Raul, Who is pushing you to talk about FR tonearms? I don't even have an opinion yet about mine. I am trying to talk about your dogmatism regarding your equipment choices. It's OK to love what you have chosen to own, but that does not make everyone else's choices "wrong". I think you may be alienating many persons who are valuable to this thread. |
Dear Lewm: +++++ " you give no one room to disagree with your approach. And you are not really paying attention to my responses " +++++
maybe I'm wrong but I think that for you can have " room " to disagree or agree the best way to do it is do it from " inside the approach ", I mean: forget everything your own approach and " buy " my Concept/approach trying to understand as deep as you can ( even if you don't like it. ): as if was your " own approach " and then comeback and discuss and you will see that I leave big " land " to run. As a fact I'm looking for that because I always am looking how to improve it and through other persons opinions is a very good way to do it.
My approach is objective/subjective oriented so almost any one with the right attitude can discuss about.
Thuchan can't do it because he can't take out his " cap approach " and take mine put on his head: only to discuss it. Lewm, I can't discuss with you on any subject if I don't understand or take for me ( for a moment ) what you are entilted for/with. That's why so many times audio subject discussions in all forums ends with no agreement or conclusions that help the people involved on the discussion.
About that I'm not paying attention to your responses maybe you are right because this morning I wake up at 100 mph instead 1 mph, sorry for that.
Alienating? do you think that?, maybe is time to think about because that was not my attitude even if you see it that way: sorry for this too.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear friends: A good coincidence.
My everyday listening music belongs mainly to female pop, jazz and classical one but on my test bench/the Concept between the music LPs that I choosed for the whole test process I use at least 6 different rock/similar LP tracks, you readed several times that I'm using on that porpose: Laura Branigan " Self Control ", David Bowie/G.Moroder " Cat People ", Caribean Quee, Hotel California, etc, etc.
Well I just found out an artricle related that explain a little of the convenience to use this kind of tracks for evaluations:
http://www.soundstage.com/maxdb/maxdb200009.htm
I agree with this reviewer. If when you run Cat People track on your system at continuous 95 SPL at seat position ( 102-103 db on peaks. ) and everything thing ( on what you normaly heard at 84 db. ) at least continue the same then you know you have a very good system. There are many things that we can learn running good recorded rock music in our systems even if we don't like that kind of tracks, remember that we are using those tracks only for system/item evaluations/comparisons.
Regards and enjoy the music, raul. |
How bout those MM Cartridge's?
Timeltel, Did you ever find a way to tame the Signet MR5.0me?
Halcro, Sorry to hear about the knees. Get well soon. Let us know how the MR5.0lc sounds. I had a aftermarket LC but it accidentally got "Halcroed". Could not really hear a lot of difference but I have tubes, a fixed headshell and I mostly wear clothes when listening. |
Groundhog Day :-)
Raul is right, everyone else, is well
If you get away from your female pop which sounds good on most anything (that is why they play it at hifi shows) and test your system with some snarly rock n roll, alt rock, drum n bass electronic you may get a better handle on the strengths and weaknesses of your system. the true end result of testing and listening, should go past testing the same 10 demo tracks :-)
It is all a compromise in the end on what musical delivery is best for you.
Now back to the new Boris - Album Attention please, then maybe some Skream - outside the box.
cheers |
Dear Downunder: ++++ " the true end result of testing and listening, should go past testing the same 10 demo tracks . " ++++
could you elaborate something on this for I can understand your main point?, thank you.
regards and enjoy the music, raul. |
Regards, all: A Signet "top of the line" TK10ML has just been offered on ebay. Wether the description of its' voicing is accurate or not I don't care to comment on other than to say it is a most unusual description. TK10MLAcman3: The Signet 5.0e is a touch too aggressive in the mids for my taste (or perhaps it's the antique Japaneese SS gear) ;-). Smoother but not as attentive to detail (IMHO) with the standard 0.2 x 0.7 elliptical as compared to the 5.0me (minature elliptical) stylus, further improved with the AT155lc needle. It is definitely an accurate, dynamic performer and one I frequently enjoy. Danny, my listening has been dominated by the TK7LCa. I prefer "suggesting" another listener might enjoy a cartridge rather than "recommending" one, the TK7LCa deserves serious consideration. Thanks for the follow up and the evident concern. Peace, |
Thanks one and all for your best wishes. The knees are doing remarkably well and I should be home next Tuesday :^) Much listening to catch up on.
I am slightly embarrassed Acman, to report my findings on the Signet MR-5.0lc as I fear the reaction of 'rolled eyes'.........."Here he goes again....another COTM!?" Timeltel has maliciously ensnared me hoping I will make a typically provocative statement at which point he intends to exit Stage Left :^}
Unable to control myself of course.......I will be reporting my findings after they are confirmed under the influence of the morphine-derived pain-killers I currently enjoy on a regular basis :^) |
Dear Professor, Did you realise when you posted that 'EBay link' on the TK-10ML......that it was lifted directly from this Forum where I had written that exact description in one of my more 'reserved moments'?
Why the Seller should choose such a 'flattering' description in attempting to sell the cartridge.......is an intriguing thought? Perhaps I should contact him to find out? |
Why are we avoiding, uh, the 'emotional part' in our relationship with our 'toys'? I myself am in particular sensitive for the tonearms. With some reluctance I wrote to T_bone: 'I admire the mechanical beauty in them and hope that this makes any sense to you?' I mentioned the FR-64 s as a perfect example of 'form follows function'. To me it is an object of art. To my suprise T_bone's answer was that this 'mechanical beauty' makes perfect sense to him as well that he also admire FR-64. No idea if I am allowed to say this but Lew also 'confessed' his easthetic feelings reg. tonearms ( I want mention TT's). I assume that there are more than us three?
Regards, |
Halcro, I don't know the difference between a TK-10ML and a MKII. IMO many carts have loading requirements that are normally not met. This is another myth perpetuated by the powers that be. Much discussion and tweaking is done for MCs, but MM/MI are supposed to be perfect at 47K and whatever capacitance is used. If you fork over a few grand, you too can experience the transparency, imaging and superiority that you so richly deserve. Of course that comes only with MCs and never an IC. Regards, |
Regards, Henry: Was unaware of the authorship of the ebay description. I hope the seller does well with what, in a rig that agrees with it, should be among be the creme' de la creme' of MM carts.
As to the MR 5.0e, my response to Danny (Acman3) remains consistent with an earlier post. Transients and detail are excellent, the hf's are defined without seeming analytical. Bass notes do not run together, each is delivered as a single identifiable note without confusion or overhang, one of the measures of a fine cart. Please take into consideration my ancient SS gear is without any feedback circitry (or tubes) and as such the finer styli such as those with the micro or minature profiles can sometimes seem somewhat aggressive. Many seek these out and I understand this, however the less bright Shibata or line contact styli suit both the old rig and my preferences best.
I'm unable to comment on the TOTL (in the MR series) MR 5.0LC, the Signet styli are excellent and considering the influence of the stylus on performance, I'm sure the 5.0LC is an outstanding cart.
Apologies if anything I've written seems "malicious" and I will be attentive to this in the future, but must still remain constant with what I hear: My rig, my ears, IMHO & etc.
Peace, |
Dear Halcro, Dear Timetel,
maybe the seller of the TK-10ML on e-bay is trying a so called "paradox intervention" raising attention by using the assessments of Henry. Not a bad idea - and you see it works!
I guess most people are now focussed on that e-bay advertisement and it will properly go for 600 Dollars. This is what I meant with "overprized..."
Nevertheless if this is the road to success I should accept Raul`s philosophy and sell my WAVACs for 150 Dollars...
best & fun only - Thuchan |
Dear Thuchan, We agreed not to disagree in this forum. So I agree with you asking price for your WAVAC's. What are those btw? |
Dear friends: Following with that link: Rock music for evaluations?, I want to add that all the tracks I use under tests I used at the end of the evaluation to confirm or not my findings.
I have to say that some times when I'm " sure " everything is on target to my " surprise " I found out " differences/problems " ( tiny ones but unacceptable. ) when I run those rock/similar tracks that makes me to re-set the set up.
If we choose the right recording rock tracks nothing I know can tell you so much ( other than the Telarc 1812. ), not all but many.
I like very much Dire Straits " Love Over Gold " and for tests I use the track " Private Investigation " that's the second and last track on LP side one. This track has an additional advantage for evaluation because are the last seven minutes on the LP ( inner grooves. ). The pressing I have comes from UK by Vertigo.
Other great test ( 45rpm. ) is: Fun Fun " Color my Love ".
Some of us almost don't use this kind of recordings for evaluation and IMHO are worth to do it.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Nandric, I don't think it is as much "emotional aspect" as the coincidental appreciation of the aesthetic aspects. I was just discussing this very aspect of the FR-64S a few days ago with someone else deep into analog. Neither of us are currently using one but both of us have. I actually think the other guy brought it up, but we had a short discussion about the industrial design aspects - just the looks, nothing else.
I don't know of another tonearm where I think the industrial design is as well done, but other ones which I think also have great industrial design are the Dynavectors, the Morch arms, the Schroder, the Scheu Classic, the Artemis Labs arm.... and there are still others where I think the aesthetics are excellent, but in terms of industrial design are not as well done (the Triplanar certainly looks 'industrial', and I happen to like its looks, but it is not what I would call great industrial design). |
Dear T bone, This discussion is so much personalised to strictly individual perception of the meaning of the term "industrial" that I really can't understand your choices, especialy when I know your extensive experience with the SAEC models. I highly regard my SAEC WE-308SX as my favorite in every aspect after having over 20 other brands at the last 30 years. |
Geoch, If I were a museum curator, and had to put a single tonearm into a museum as an example of good 20th century design, it would be the FR-64S. If I had to put a group of them in, they would include the Dynavector, the Morch, the Triplanar, the Scheu Classic, possibly the Thales (or both), and the Karlsson arm from about CES about 8-10yrs ago. A larger collection would include a bunch more, including the Garrard 100 arm, the great stonking long one which went on Denon broadcast tables of the late 50s, a Wilson Benesch ACT tonearm, and probably even a SAEC. While I admire the industrial "look" of the SAECs, and think they look great on my stainless plinth for my Technics, they don't have the design simplicity to make them truly great design. I might even prefer the looks of the SAECs to the FR-64S, because they look like they are supposed to do what they are supposed to do. My comment about the FR-64S has nothing to do with tonearm performance/quality/desirability - just good design. |
Aesthetics play a large part in my choices of equipment......especially tonearms. Mainly because of my training (architect), I can see a lot of the 'thought' processes expressed as the finished product. I have to agree with Nandric and T_bone about the FR-64s and FR-66s tonearm design. 'Form follows Function'.........? Yes indeed. Nothing extraneous or superficial, this rather 'Tuetonic' sparcity of design belies its Japanese origins. And do not underestimate the difficulty in 'sizing up' a design like the 9" 64s to a 12" 66s whilst maintaining appropriate proportions and aesthetics? However, this almost 'Brutalist' design response is hardly one I can 'love'. Admire and respect?.......absolutely.
For emotional attachment, I can understand Geoch's attraction for the SAEC-WE308. This is audio 'jewelry' at its best and its delicacy and 'glitter' is in pure opposition to the design of the FR-6 Series.
From a design point of view, I have always been attracted to the Dvnavector DV-505 series for its unabashed 'architectonic' expression. The 'visuals' of this design clearly demonstrate the importance of 'concept' leading 'function'.
For further 'jewelry' combined with clear functionality, the Micro Seiki MA-505 is hard to surpass IMHO. The DaVinci 12" Ref Grandezza is amongst my favorites of the modern arms whilst the Continuum Cobra and Copperhead arms have introduced a revolutionary new visual to to this age-old design concept. This is always the hardest feat to ever pull off and the design community is well aware of this fact. |
Hello Thuchan, Interesting concept,this "paradox intervention". I will be watching with interest.
To quote another German philosopher " Very Interesting".
Danny |
Hello Danny, I am glad your are interested. Otherwise we have only Nandric bidding, also someone who is able going a new path. Following the priciples of this intervention we now need to start the first stage of this paradox process... Yes, we will add another 0 to the amount. You may put it wherever you want but it needs to be behind the 15..
Another principle of this intervention is you cannot suggest or implement new principles. You are totally dependent on the one who started it - in this case me. So please wait for my next paradox measurement coming soon. On the other hand you may leave the bidding whenever you want. But if one gives up another two Nulls are added ( behind the 15....) and the deal is done for the one remaining. okay so far?
best & fun only - Thuchan |
As we now have a race for the best industrial tonearm design (on a MM thread - why not?) I would give the price either to the FR-66s or the SAEC WE 8000, maybe the latter one is even more elegant, the FR best in handling.
But this may change when Raul and/or Dertonearm will throw their designs on the market, hopefully this year...
best & fun only - Thuchan |
Dear Geoch, Your response is an obvious 'argument' for the emotions involved. We all should defend and fight for our 'selected one'. Even those who own a whole 'harem' seem to have their own Scheherezade.
Regards, |
Dear T_bone, dear Nandric, indeed - that particular tonearm ( I shouldn't name because of known reasons ...) - is form-follows-function is the strictest sense of the term - as originally meant by the industrial designers of the early 20th century. Today in modern marketing phrases we would call it "reduced to the max". Anything not explicit necessary to ensure full function - or not firmly fixed - in a tonearm ( but not only there) is a weak point of possible sonic distraction. As few moveable parts as possible. To the benefit not only of any MM's sonic performance. This - BTW - has nothing to do with "damping" (damping in a tonearm is always an ultimately futile attempt to cure or heal a self-induced problem - but doing so, one is only jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire ...) Cheers, D. |
Just wanted to reiterate Fleib's request...
if anyone has access to AES paper #1866, convention 71, this might be helpful.
The paper is the Ortofon AES paper on phase response in cartridges, in which they tested a number of MM/MI cartridges, and then did controlled tests of an MC200 cartridge on which they varied the damping from none to extreme, and both measured the phase response variation as well as did listening tests.
A better understanding of the parameters around phase response in cartridges might help us in better optimising MM cartridges.
By adjusting capacitance and resistance (load) - we can either generate a resonant peak (often used in default manufacturer recommended setups to compensate for high-midrange droop in frequency response) - or configure the parameters for the flattest possible response just short of generating a resonance.
This may allow a much more phase linear configuration to be optimised with some precision. (the electrical parameters being well known and understood, and therefore easily calculable)
In any case I am seeking any additional information / papers that are out there on the topic of phase and cartridges.
thanks & bye for now
David |
Hello Thuchan, Actually I was interested in the seller of the Signet TK10 cartridge using Halcro's exact words to talk poorly of his product to possibly draw attention to it.
I am so accustomed to hype from all sellers that I found it an interesting approach. I am not by nature a manipulative person so I would have never thought of this method. It does seem to have it's risks.
As far as bidding with Nandric for your amps. It seems a little to much like the example of learning to play poker with sharks. I will have to respectfully withdraw. Besides I have heard somewhere they have distortions.
Does this mean Nandrick wins?
Danny |
Dear Acman3, Thucham and I share for some strange reasons the Balkan humour. To my suprise Dertonarm also want to accompany us by pretending to be anxious to name some tonearm by name. I had no idea that he is anxious of anything or anyone. You have btw nothing to fear from yours truly 'shark'. I had no idea what Thuchan wanted to sell but the price was ok for me. However by adding 'nuls' (aka zeros) to his price he disclaimed himself as an honest seller. I also think that he should give some of his gear as present to his friends. This way he will be in the position to get some concrete idea of what he actually owns. What is the sense or function of any kind of gear if you have no idea that you own them?
Regards, |
Dear Raul, **IMHO outweight " nothing ". Do you know why a designer build a unit around ICs?. I know the answers but is useless to tell you, I think is better if you find out the reasons real reasons for such kind of designs where quality performance is not the main target.**
You don't know what you're talking about. You throw around phrases like negative feedback as dirty words. Many designers of multi thousand dollar units use IC because you just can't duplicate the function, speed and cleanness with a bunch of crappy discreet components all strung together on a circuit board. That's the way it is my friend and there's no getting around it. There's no such thing as a good sounding component part. There are only some that are less bad than others.
I came on this thread to talk about cartridges. I happen to think that MM/MI carts are seriously underrated. This is a side issue and we obviously disagree. Please don't talk down to me about such things. It's very insulting. I happen to be the co-founder of AHT and not some novice you can browbeat. If you allow this response, maybe we can chalk it up and continue on about cartridges. Regards, |
Hello Acman3, do accept your withdrawel. Of course these amps should have really great distortions says a source which is master of all distortions... therefore I might not offer them anymore, even not to Nandric. Nevetheless he got already some experiences with poker. You are too clever for my attempts... what a pitty. Good luck for the Signet.
best & fun only - Thuchan |
Dear Nandric, now I understand. After Daniel has setting the parameters, me too I'm also voting for the FR66s. But of course to choose my own poison, I'll have to set my own parameters that must closely approximating my personal fetishistic priorities. So far my champions are my SAEC WE-308SX & my PLUTO 9A Prestige and I've recently sold my EPA 100mkII & my REED 3Q (a very hard decision based on my will to keep only one cardanic ball bearing. Those two were the most user friendly of all), but I wish to have the cash & spare time to try the TALEA 2 & CENTROID as these two may have the potential to ring my unipivot bell. Unfortunatelly one of my new rules is the relation of the production cost & the actual price. So you can guess my reluctance of paying $8K & $6K for them, although 12K Euro for my Pluto 9A may seem fair ... ? That never stops me in the past to choose my princess but I'm trying hard these days to keep the faith for a more ethical right morality. |
Dear Nandric, it is better you don't know what I wanted to sell. On the other hand I now realize why I will never become a champion in selling audio gear. When my potential customers blindly buy a product without knowing that the very import issue of distortion with my products cannot be solved at all. It seems I need to be trained by someone who will guide me on the path out of mediocricy. And maybe also allowing me to get a better overlook over my products... hey pls. do visit me some day and look out for a present... but you know ... you might get distorted...
best &fun only - Thuchan |
Dear Dlaloum: You are right: what about the accuracy on RIAA during the recording process?.
I make my self the same question more than once but at the end that subject is something that IMHO I don't have to worried about because is out of you or mine control ( it is part of the overall imperfection medium. ). The best I can do is to work in what I can have some kind of control and like in my phonolinepream to be accurate on that regard.
In the other side, the Fleib AES papers are linked somewhere this thread. I remember because I readed and as both of you pointed out: very revealing white papers.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Geoch, In Holland we have this saying: 'love makes blind'. T_bone, Dertonarm nor I mentioned the FR-66. We all were refering to the FR-64S. Only Halcro mentioned both without any reservation. But he is an architect and this kind of human kind loves big buildings...It may be the 'feminine' part of my aesthetics but to me the dimensions of both are critical. I hope I will not chalenge nor endengere my relationship with Daniel nor Halcro but I don't admire FR-66. But to please and confort you I need to mention that in my collection of tonearms there is also an nice specimen of one SAEC WE 407/23.
Regards, |
Dear Thuchan/Halcro/friends: On that TK10ML ebay ad, yes is really weird what this guy posted in his auction. I don't know if like Thuchan said the cartridge will goes for 600.00 especially that there are the same model on Agon for 250.00.
One issue that I see through the ebay Signet cartridge pictures is the red/burgundy color on the stylus hold body. This is the first time I saw it, I was unaware of it. My MLMK2 ( original one. ) has a different color and other MLs that I saw in the past had not that color on the hol stylus body.
Any one knows something about?
Btw, I saw that Travrow put on sale its ML too with an AT23 or 24 stylus, obviously that the quality performace is not comparable against the original one but that red/burgundy intrigue me.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
T_bone, I certainly understand these are all personal choices, but I must admit to some surprise seeing your inclusion of the Triplanar on your list after stating candidates for your museum should "have the design simplicity to make them truly great design".
From that perspective, the MOMA inclusion of the original AR table/arm seems appropriate, except perhaps for that plastic headshell. ;-) |
Dear Fleib: Of course I allow your post, nothing wrong with that.
+++++ " like negative feedback as dirty words. " +++++
there are " tons " of books/research/studies/etc on the feedback subject and I know that if a designer has the skill to use feedback then is a good alternative. N. Pass/J.Curl and many other designers pointed out in deep about the benefit of feedback when you have the right knowledge on the whole subject. Obviously that depend where do you want or the circuit needs feedback ( as an alternative path. ), how to apply and in which amount.
+++++ " IC because you just can't duplicate the function, speed and cleanness ... " +++++
agree, this could happen in very especial designs and mainly depends on the designer targets or in which part/stage of his design and his or their knowledge level. But I think that maybe you could agree that are designers that have not the necessary skills or are " lazy " or where their designs has market price limitations to compete. Yes, there are circuit stages that only can function through ICs but this IMHO is not the rule.
It is extremely dificult to duplicate an IC, I mean sometimes it is an overall " enterprise " per se to do it and sometimes too even that you did it maybe the result could be not the one you are expecting, but here too all dependen on the designer skills and the targets trade-offs between IC and discrete circuits on some or the whole audio item design.
+++++ " There's no such thing as a good sounding component part. " ++++++
agree too, I was not talking of single parts but on discrete circuit designs where parts are only a part of the whole circuit where each part depends on its inside circuit relationship.
Yes, the tread is about the underrated MM/MI cartridges but things are that people likes in open forums to talk on many additional subjects that many times some way or the other are related to the thread subject. In the other side ( one way or the other and even that sometimes things goes " hot ". ) I think that almost all the people that participate on this thread and that participated for months and years are considered each to others as a : friends, more than a virtual person and that's why the sometimes " unrelated " chat enviroment here.
No, I'm not trying in anyway to treat you as a " novice " but things are that I'm not to good on elocuence to explain in full my opinions/meaning.
Yes, go a head with cartridges.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
You guys are starting to concern me this fetish with tonearms – have you also given them names as well outside of the names their maker gave them ? Does a pretty tonearm compromise your listening and cause it to perform better than it really is ?
I admit my speakers have personalities in the aural sense based on how they sound to me. To look at them however they are actually quite ugly - all of them. Good thing the lights are usually out when I listen to them. Nikola – have you received your AT7V yet – this nationwide postal strike has shut everything down here for a month.
Raul – thx for posting that audio link I agree rock music tests your system out very well. A couple lps from last night that will test out things that I enjoyed are Roxy Music “Avalon” and Tears For Fears “Seeds of Love” , careful when listening to the Tears for Fears lp in the full monty in case it startles you. I won’t tell you which side or track.
Cheers
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RE: The TK10ML on ebay. That's not a 10ML stylus. It's a TK-9Ea which is an elliptical on a beryllium cantilever. It could be a 10ML body with a replacement tip. There was also a TK9LCa with a line contact. The AT 22 through 25 have the same style style tip holder with a screw. Regards, |
"Seeds of Love" One of my most beloved songs. Thank you Chris for that.
Dear Nandric, I don't like the FR64s & especially the WE-407/23 It is funny how much our aesthetics differs. |
Pryso, In a museum, with one arm, one chooses iconic. Once one starts building a "collection", one starts needing to make comparisons. With that in mind, the Triplanar is iconic as a 'complicated, industrial-looking arm.' But again, that's just me, and I am full of idiosyncrasies. If I start putting furniture in, Biedermeier is not first but it certainly belongs. But I think I've gone on enough with this so will stop here... |
Dear Ct0517: I agree with you On Avalon ( greta one ) and obviously " Seeds of Love "!
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |