well he recommended the 20SLa but NO the TK7 or the 5. Well that's settled then! Out with those vile Signets. Raul.........while you're at it, could you please post all this 'expert's' other recommendations so that we may know which cartridges to buy? Oh.......this must now save you a great deal of time because you can throw away that cupboard-load of cartridges which you are still to 'test'? |
Hi Raul, I've discussed measurements with Dlaloum on other forums. He's very well versed on the subject and making great progress. Most of us have time and equipment limitations that are hard to overcome.
Many people think that inductance is the problem with most high output carts and the lack of, is one of the main reasons for MC superiority. That, and a fixed cantilever are the most often cited advantages. I started seriously using MM/MI a few years ago when I was interested in investigating different stylus profiles and cantilevers. At that time I thought MC were superior. Now I think it depends on the particular cart.
Electrical models are very limited in predicting response. It's primarily mechanical aspects that determine. A model like Hagerman's calculator is nearly useless. Loading results don't mean much if anything, and the resultant electrical resonance does not appear on measured response. The self-inductance of a cart combines with shunt capacitance and the net affect is to lower the high freq res of the cart. This is used sometimes to fill in response dips in the upper mid/treble, but it will severely roll off the extreme high end. It will also cause phase nonlinearities. This dramatically effects imaging.
The MK1 version of the M20FL Super came with caps attached to the back of the cart. I think they were 300 or 400pF. This was obviously to bring up mid/treble response. I don't know what changes were made to the MK2, but mine didn't come with caps. I enjoy listening to that cart. It sounds slightly distant and has a big dramatic sound like back of the hall. Bass is very good and the top is crystal clear and well defined. Regards, |
Hello Raul,Another problem to consider is the way we are communicating.
If you had been sitting in my living room listening to music, or me in yours, and I said to you "You can't always be right" we probably would have had a laugh and moved on, but on the internet it comes across as a great insult.
The statement " You can't always be right" was meant to be funny or clever but was not funny or clever. It was meant as a zinger , but not intended to draw blood or inflict pain. I am sorry for that.
This will be my last response on this subject.
Adios Amigo, Danny |
Dear friends: Don't miss this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Audio-Technica-AT-24-Hard-Find-/260777329104?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb78a41d0#ht_930wt_1139
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Acman3: I'm not worried about me on the TK7 subject it is only that I like to have certain ( when is possible. ) in what I think or thinked or experienced.
First against my self targets ( stay in " focus " always is my main sub-target. ) and second against other people opinions that are surrounded by a " different " audio systems and with " different " audio/music priorities.
IMHO maybe I know many of you ( system and priorities. ) better than you know me and this " fact " makes that perhaps for me is more easy to understand your opinions and put those opinions in the " right " place/stage/audio environment when for you is not so easy.
No, Acman3 you can be sure that I don't take a sentence ( any ) as an insult from people like you that I respect because your integrity.
I will try to come back on the subject with what I already analyzed from all what I experienced and all what you experienced because IMHO there are some factors that even that are in our latest posts seems to me that we are not given the right " weight " to each one when each one has an influence for the better or bad in the cartridge quality performance level.
Who is right has no main importance to me but the whys.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear 7's lovers: I try almost always to be as objective as I can and if in a " discussion " objective factors could help I like to analyze them.
I think that a re-read to this post could help:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1200430667&openflup&3823&4#3823
it is weird that no one of you gives any comment on the higher microphonics in the 7s against the 20SS that my system detects, is that because you are unaware of this microphonics level or because you could think is not important ?, neither I know if every time you changed the 7 for the 20SS and changed the VTF you re-set too the SRA: I did it every time.
Before I follow. Halcro: why do you " blame " me when I can't see in your latests post the 20SS that's the one I'm comparing against the 7s?, with all respect my post is " oriented " to Timeltel/Acman3 even that Acman3 already give up:
I took that reviewer measures because a measure/measurements are and objective " road " that could gives some interesting answers that could help to explain " differences " in between cartridges quality performance level:
these measured cartridge factors where differences were detected ( all in AT 20 favor. ) are important:
square wave at 1khz, stereo separation, HF wavefor, lateral distortion and stylus quality.
If both of you could think that these cartridge intrinsec parameters/factors along that microphonic cartridge level and poor stylus plastic assemble in the 7s ( prone to resonances. ) does not makes a " difference " then there is nothing to add on the whole subject other than the difference, between our each one systems , in the ASLFL ( Audio System Limitations Factor Level. ).
Now, at least not only I posted what I heard but I posted information that " supports " my findings.
Permit me to ask both of you: why do you think you are right and I'm wrong? what support your opinions?
There is no problem from my part if you don't want to answer.
The thread have to go on.
regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Regards, Raul. It is simple. You don't care for the Signet TK7SU. I don't care for the anemic Signet TK9 or the AT22, or the distant sounding Ortofon M20FL, which you enjoy and this is fine with me. Further discussion is a waste of my time, better spent in finess fishing for the lovely and colorful trout fish. Others may prefer trolling for other quarry, this is also fine with me.
Peace, |
Hi Timetel, Different strokes? Wasn't the TK-9 similar to the TK-10? I'm trying to remember. In the mid '80s I sold Signet, but not AT. We didn't always have all the models in stock. I had a TK-10MLII - at home. It sounds very different than my 15SS. If by anemic you mean thin, I can understand. It was tricky for me to get it tuned in. But I think there's a difference here in preference, specifically tonal balance. I like the M20FL too, it's just different, they all are. I'm really responding to the thought of fresh trout. Mighty tasty. Regards, |
Dear friends: As Siniy123 said: a great cartridge and seems in very good conditions:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Audio-Technica-AT15SS-cartridge-/290564622519?_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D1%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D9078844574500050174#ht_710wt_1139 Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Raul: Yes, I am just a humble learner. Consequently I have several questions about your last post concerning certain observations. What is lateral distortion? This is a term common to optics and the movement of earth, perhaps you would be so kind as to define the term and it's relation to audio matters? Sorry to display such ignorance but yours is the first reference in this area I've encountered.
Microphonics, the translation of mechanical vibration into electrical signal. This is typically the famous "tap test". Somehow I'm unable to determine any excessive, or even objectionable translation into signal from some relatively vigorous thumps and other disturbances to the stylus carrier. Please, what is your technique for making this determination, I hope it's not a secret? On the other hand, an Empire cartridge, one held in a metal clip, reveals the slightest touch to the lifting arm, this one I definitely understand to be microphonic. And that tonearm, Raul, you really must find a tonearm more suited to high compliance cartridges, a thing you notice but will not address in a positive manner: "the FR64 I tested there and " things " does not improve but only added distortions especially at the frequency extremes". Why am I, in spite of the ignorance you ascribe, not surprised? Might I say, my friend, you're going in the wrong direction? Cartridges don't care where the signal originates, they do as you determine.
As to your comments on the ASLFL, I'm somewhat in agreement (from what little I've learned in the past 45 years of audio) and congradulate you on elevating your system and personal appreciation to the degree that you can determine the difference between the performance of a beryllium and alu. cantilever, but I'm still not sure you understand the signifigance of what you're hearing. I wonder if perhaps what you are refering to as "microphonics" isn't actually the increased resonance of an alu. cantilever as compared to beryllium?
1-17-11: "Resonance frequency is not one for compliance, one for cantilever and one for arm unless considered separately. Resonance frequency is the product of tonearm effective mass, cartridge compliance and, for the purposes of this discussion, cantilever design."
1-25-11: "In the past Timeltel ask me about cantilever sound signature and today, even that it has, for me is really hard to tell a sound signature cantilever due to build material. Maybe because I heard the cartridge performance as a whole and don't " dissect " ( I can't do it yet. ) if in two cartridges with different build material cantilevers what belongs ( on quality performance differences. ) in specific to that cantilever and not to a different stylus shape or cantilever lenght or different kind of cartridge suspension. I can't understand yet how you ( Timeltel ) can do it on precise way."
Lastly, this mysterious source you refer to, several times you've avoided siteing this source, and as such your "authority" is, at this time, of mythological status but as mention previously I'm eager to learn what I can. Might you please reveal the location of this knowledge, so far only hinted at as being found "at VE"? "(S)quare wave at 1khz, stereo separation, HF wavefor, lateral distortion and stylus quality". This becomes even more a matter of interest if, as it appears from your writings, the same source is responsible for these "objective" tests?
Awaiting your revelations, and hopefully without diversion or distractions, and please notice my querys relate only to the technical, and not to a certain cartridge which I've previously refered to as "pleasing, but not my favored".
Not too old to learn, |
Dear Timeltel: Yes I can give my point of view on your questions but first because I ask first and you don't give any answer about:
++++ " Permit me to ask both of you: why do you think you are right and I'm wrong? what support your opinions? " +++++
and please don't post questions as an answers. So, I'm wait first for your wide explanation to my two questions.
regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Timeltel: I " losted " this one from you:
++++ " Regards, Raul. It is simple. You don't care for the Signet TK7SU. I don't care for the anemic Signet TK9 or the AT22, or the distant sounding Ortofon M20FL, which you enjoy and this is fine with me. Further discussion is a waste of my time.... " +++++
if all is fine with you ( as you posted ) and if " further discussion is a waste of your time ", then : what is all about? where or why it comes your last post? makes no sense.
Yes, I don't care on the 7s in the same way I don't care on any other cartridge because I don't have any personal interest in support one cartridge model(s) over other cartridges.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Oh, yes I like that Ortofon in the same way that liked to Fleib, Lewm, Siniy123 and several other 20FL Super owners.
Raul. |
Dear Timeltel: If it is true that I don't care on the 7s I want that you know that I care about people ( like you. ) in this thread and this is the only reason why I took my time to buy the 7s even that I don't need it at all and that I did not had/have any single personal interest to own that cartridge.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Timeltel: Where are your post where you compared the 7s against the 20SS?, I can't find it and I would like to read it because I'm taking you in count in this " discussion " assuming you are an AT20SS cartridge's owner ( as me that made the comparison between these cartridges not other ones. ). If you are not then everything is almost said it from my part to you.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
|
Hi Raul, That very high compliance sonus blue gold cartridge has proved to be a very nice cartridge and seems to have a ton of synergy with my ET 2.5 arm. I have however read a couple of reports on the net about premature cantilever failure on those - so I will reserve my impressions for now, but I can say that at about 60 hours this $130 cartridge sounds great on the ET and makes me feel like I am driving a car on free gas; but that one of the wheels may fall off based on what I read. I am sure it will be fine.
The empire 4000 dIII gold has arrived - I look forward to listening to it this weekend and comparing.
Do you recommend a certain vtf for the initial hours on this NOS cartridge before it loosens up after being dormant for so long? Thanks again for recommending these cartridges- great fun to get my audio fix.
Cheers Chris |
Hello Timetel, Over the past couple of years I've done some stylus/cantilever substitutions. When you have the same tip on two different cantilevers, the difference can be revealing. If you swap a TK-7_ for a 20SS, it would be much more difficult to tell. I have an old 440ML. I used to load it at 32K because it was too bright. I broke the tip and replaced it with a MLa. This is essentially the same. The output is a little less because they changed the magnets. It is a ML tip on a tapered alum cantilever. I then tried a ATN152ML. This is the same tip on a beryllium cantilever. The difference is striking. With the 152ML it only was slightly bright at 47K. It was also more refined.
I think rigidity makes more difference than resonance. While playing a record the cantilever makes wild gyrations and bends. A rigid cantilever sounds more controlled and exact. An aluminum cantilever might sound more dynamic because of greater excursions. It might also sound warmer with more midbass. Of course these generalizations might not be appropriate in all cases.
I also think the shibata is slightly soft in the extreme high end compared to a ML. A ML is the same as a microridge. It is very exacting, close to the shape of a cutterhead. I'm thinking of removing the plastic wings from my AT styli and make them like Clearaudios. The part that holds the cantilever, the plug, has a little screw that allows styli to be transplanted from one style plug to another. That's what I do with my Virtuoso. I suspect that removing the plastic wings and stylus guard improves performance. I use a bit of tack on the bottom of the plug against the cart body. I do this with the C/A too.
I hope I didn't waste your time with stuff you already know. Time is more valuable then just about anything. At the rate I'm going, I probably won't complete all my stereo projects. Regards, |
Dear Fleib: +++++ " When you have the same tip on two different cantilevers, the difference can be revealing. If you swap a TK-7_ for a 20SS, it would be much more difficult to tell. " +++++
I don't know if you own both cartridges but the cantilevers on the 7 and 20SS are different: aluminum against beryllium in the SS.
Regards and enjoy the music, raul. |
Dear Chris: Agree, the Gold Blue " means " a lot more of that 130.00 and yes I readed too about that premature failure on the cantilever, I own the Gold Blue and the Dimension 5 and I can't report any trouble about but only time could tell.
On the VTF subject and with a new cartridge like yours I usually set up to the high VTF manufacturer range for the first 15-20 hours till the suspension settle down but there is no rule about how many hours: sometimes less sometimes a little more.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Come gather round you Signet TK-7 lovers [this is a Raul-free zone :^)] It was the erstwhile Professor (Timeltel) who introduced me the peerless Signet range of cartridges (essentially the TK-3, 5 & 7 series) for which I am eternally grateful. After obtaining the TK-3Ea, TK-5e and TK-7e I saw that Audiofeil (Bill Feil) had nominated the Signet TK-7SU as his favorite cartridge whilst I had nominated the TK-7e and Timeltel the TK-7LCa. After consulting with the Professor, I obtained the No.3 stylus from WilliamThacker in Germany which I assumed transformed my TK-7e into a TK-7SU? I really had a hard time distinguishing any differences between the normal 7e & 7SU until I found a TK-7SU for sale on EBay and promptly purchased it. Now on the actual body of the cartridge (top surface), the nomenclature TK-7SU is prominently emblazoned whilst on the body of the 7e, it similarly states clearly..... "TK-7e". Being differentiated like this indicates to me that there are more differences between the two cartridges than just the stylus profile? And so it be........... On mounting the 'real' TK-7SU on the Micro Seiki MA-505s tonearm on the 'nude' TT-81 turntable, the sound immediately captivated with it's warmth, transparency, delicacy and power. This is a class up from the TK-7e (which in itself is no slouch) and I must agree with Audiofeil that this is my favorite cartridge.......and this after listening for a week to both the Technics EPC-100Mk3 and Fidelity Research FR-7f (both close to the very top in cartridge performance IMHO). As I write, I am listening to Sade's 'Soldier of Love' and it is hard to concentrate as the beauty of the sound pervades the room. If this is what pure analogue is capable of, I know I will be listening till the end of my days. I must make a mention of the Yamamoto HS-1AS Ebony headshell onto which the 7SU is mounted. This headshell is really impressive in design, lightness and sound. The particular feature of the 1AS model is that the headshell leads are NOT user-replaceable being hard-wired to the pin-connectors. To what extent this accounts for the beauty of sound that this headshell manages I am unsure..........but I believe it certainly helps? On Vinyl Engine, the specifications for the TK-7e and 7SU are the same but perhaps the Professor may know about some internal differences? |
Raul,
Regarding the difference made by styli, I have found the same with the Empire 1000 ZE/X when using the original Empire stylus in contrast to the replacement 4236 DEZ, as supplied by Garage-A-Records.
They seem to be made of different materials and are of different sizes and (most importantly) they sound markedly different. The shorter replacement stylus is more rigid and their comparitive performances complies with your generalisations. I'd go so far as to say that they create two different (sounding) Empire 1000 ZE/X. I can see either being preferred according to the listener's preferences and system.
If anyone knows of another stylus that they would recommend for use with the 1000 ZE/X, I would love to hear from you.
Cheers |
Regards, Raul: Still no citing of your reference? Sun-tzu: "--Knowledge cannot be gained from ghosts and spirits, inferred from phenomena of projected from the measures of Heaven but must be gained from---knowledge of the---true situation".
Also, as I have not (but would wish to have) the AT14/15 or 20 SS or Sa, any references to these must have originated with your posts. Does this help clarify your confusion?
Peace, |
Regards, Fleib: The cantilever transplant is a very "fiddly" operation, I've been sorely tempted to try an ATN155lc with the TK7SU but I have only three (which have become recently expensive) and wish to reserve them for the TK7LCa, my cartridge of choice.
Thank you for your comments.
Peace, |
I am at the point now where I can relatively quickly put together a good estimate of a stylus' mechanical resonance.
My conclusion is that a huge % if differences are down to this single parameter.
I have been unable to get a response from any cantilever/stylus maker with regards to any capability as to tuning and adjusting the mechanical resonance.
Having stated the above, there is no possible way an after market stylus can sound like the original unless it is a perfect copy. (including the detailed tuning of the suspension which adjusts the resonant frequency!)
You may like or dislike the sound of the aftermarket needle - some are good some are bad, some are excellent.
But once mounted on your cartridge you have created a "new" cartridge bearing no relationship (other than cosmetic) with the original.
I wish it were otherwise I really do - and I have an extensive collection of cartridges and styli now to show for the fact that I have been searching through a wide range of manufacturers and designs for information about this - but the real info is this:
The M-resonance is fixed in the construction of the stylus/suspension combo.
When the electrical parameters are then laid over this (and these include the cartridge loading) - you get the real life performance.
As a result- the original manufacturers loading recommendations are meaningless once you use a different needle.
Hard - but c'est la vie.
It also means that if you want to work to a recommended setup from a manufacturer - you better stick to original styli. - Otherwise it is ultra-tweak time, and you have to work through the process of determining optimal loading yourself - much as the manufacturer must do when designing a cartridge.
Bye for now
David
P.S. my signets and AT's for comparison now include TK4ep TK6ep and TK7SU (all without original styli... so I will be testing with ATN440MLa and ATN152LP) - AT150ea (also no stylus), AT440MLa, AT20SLa (with ATN15ss stylus) - I will at some point weigh into the comparison discussion but not quite yet.... first as per my comments above, I need to determine an optimum setup for each cartridge with my available styli - then I will be able to start comparing various cartridges using the same stylus.... |
Dear Halcro: I know what you are hearing and good you are enjoying: that's your top quality performance level. I don't want to go in deep to explain you why you are hearing what you are hearing, you are happy this way and this is all about.
Halcro: how compares against digital?
Btw, if someone want to buy the 7 mine is on sale.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear friends: There is no " mysterious source " where I took the cartridges measurements. I had the cartridge comparison chart in Pdf format and due to my very low computer knowledge I can't paste or linked to this thread ( I don't know yet how do it that. ).
The only reference I have is that I have this document because I took it from VE. So I take my last two-three days looking for on VE and I found out yesterday. As you can see it comes in a thread from 2004 where there was any single post till I posted yesterday ( that I found out ) asking for the source of the chart that today you know comes from late 1970 by Hi FI Choice magazyne:
http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=288581#288581
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Timeltel: STOP TO PUSH ME. You really don't want I answer you. Your personal " feelings / self inferiority-complex " is your problem not mine, if you can't " deal " with who I'm that's up to you.
regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Dlaloum: Again, great job.
+++++ " I have been unable to get a response from any cantilever/stylus maker with regards to any capability as to tuning and adjusting the mechanical resonance.
Having stated the above, there is no possible way an after market stylus can sound like the original unless it is a perfect copy. (including the detailed tuning of the suspension which adjusts the resonant frequency!) " +++++
this is IMHO a critical reason why a cartridge-stylus re-tip must be made/make it by the cartridge manufacturer if we like that cartridge quality performance level. Unfortunately there is no " manufacturer re-tip " by all those vintage cartridges so we are exactly with an enviroment as you states.
Keep " walking ", very interesting experiences shared with us.
Regards and enjoiy the music, raul. |
Dear friends: 1080LT. Many months ago ( when many of us were " eager " of new vintage cartridge models. ) I test it an recommend it. If I remember some of you bought it, between of you was Downunder whom posted he liked it ( I refer to Downunder because he was a difficult person with these vintage cartridges. ).
I never comeback to this cartridge till a few weeks ago ( I can't remember what move to do it. ) and even that I " remember " was a good cartridge I can't remember how good was/is it.
The good news is that this Empire cartridge is not only good but very good.Some of you that already own it could be time to try it again.
This is a P-mount design that I mounted in the Grace G-945 ( Halcro, good for you and Dgob too. ) which made very good match ( I can't remember in which tonearm mated when I " discover " it and this time the performance level was and is so high that I don't try it yet in a different tonearm than the Grace. ) in the original Nagaoka magnesium headshell ( 10 grs. ).
VtF: 1.25grs, positive SRA, loaded at 100kohms with added 350pf on capacitance, no antiskating and azymuth centered. It takes around 25 hours to settle down ( 95% performance improving till 40-50 hours. ).
It is a differnt performer than the 4000D3 or the 1000ZX/e, I mean different music presentation as if Empire left these models " signature " and choosed a new " house sound ".
Its cantilever is a Gold plated aluminum alloy and Empire said that the stylus shape is: Para Linear 0.25x2.5 and has TM registr on the design. The bandwindth per se is impressive: 6hz to 40khz.
First thing that I noted is that instruments sound have a " rightness " in the tone color ( Frogman meaning. ) that beats other Empires I heard. Both frequency extremes are really great both are not only accurate with very good " feeling/true " but transparent that's is not an n easy task for any cartridge.
The cartridge it self even with its very high quality performance level permit that you enjoy the music and not the cartridge. I don't find yet any cartridge/music characteristic where I think is not good enough. You can go from top to bottom and IMHO you will be satisfied with the cartridge quality performance.
But the very good news is that for the persons that could be interested to buy it is that exist the source for NOS cartridge at less than 200.00!!!:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Empire-1080-LT-1080LT-T4P-cartridge-NOS-/400101138353?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d27e2dfb1#ht_2669wt_1139
Don't miss it, especially at this price.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear friends: I forgot, if your systems is looking for " colorations " to compensate system deficiency or deviations then the 1080LT is not for you.
Regrads and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Every time I read a reviewers caveat about the latest component (cartridge, phono-stage, amp, cables, speaker) but mainly LOMCs and I see the phrase......"it highlights all the faults in the recording process so that many of your records will be ruthlessly revealed as unlistenable"........I immediately know that the component under review is not a relevant item in the pantheon of true Hi-Fi components. Every new or vintage component of value I have ever heard, has made the joy of listening to vinyl ever more so. And yet there still exists amongst us, some masochists who believe that a 'truly' neutral and accurate component can actually make the sound 'worse'.........and that is a 'good thing'? Not for this little black duck!! |
Halcro: how compares against digital? Dear Raul, If your analogue sounds like digital........everything is clear to me :^) |
The more statements one post to our forum the more the chance of contradictions between 'some' of them. I am thinking about (re) sell of some of my MM carts and follow a new lead (grin).
Regards, |
Raul I am still alive you know :-)
1080LT is a good performer, however too smooth for my system. Great for neutral or ss system. |
Regards, Raul: "One who excells---is not compelled by other men". Sun-tzu. Raul, it's an open forum. Post as you please. Assuredly, others will do the same. Otherwise, might we rise above the name-calling?
Thanks for the reference, to the best of my knowledge this is from: "Hi-Fi Choice Turntables & Cartridges", by Martin Colloms, copies offered through Boston Audio Society, 06-01-77. Snips of his review were given in an abreviated form in one of a number of back issues (The BAS Speaker, Archives, same date) offered on the B.A.S.'s on-line site and these do make informative reading.
Dlaloum: Tom (Tomlinson) Holman was very involved in some of the concerns you're pursuing, his comments/research in this issue (and others to be found in the BAS archives) might be of particular interest to you.
Halcro (Hi! Henry) brings up an interesting point in the difference he hears between the two cartridges, 7e/7SU. Henry, as I can best determine, the motors are the same. Perhaps (except for Cher) age does take it's toll.
Peace. |
Dear friends: With the 1080LT IMHO is " mandatory " to hear it/set up with out stylus guard.
Downunder, maybe could be interesting you give another " take " ( you can't lose nothing. )to the 1080Lt, I'm really " discovering it " ( as you posted several times. ) given listening time to " understand "/confirm its IMHO high quality performance level and till now nothing tell me is not a top cartridge.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Halcro: +++++ " Every new or vintage component of value I have ever heard, has made the joy of listening to vinyl ever more so. " +++++
absolutely true and I can add that IMHO this is true with any audio source. It does not sense the other way around, could be exceptions but normally your statement is the " rule ".
Btw, you posted: ++++ " Halcro: how compares against digital? Dear Raul, If your analogue sounds like digital...... " +++++
I can't understand your post, first because you don't give me yet and answer to my question and second because I can't read in this thread page any post where I said: " my analogue sounds like digital ", so please don't put in my " mouth " words that comes from your " imagination ".
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Nandric: Yes, we have to grow-up and don't be steady. Which new " grin " are you thinking?
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Raul, There is alas not much chance for me to 'grow' but I can't resist the temptation to tease my friends. This is something from my culture in which teasing is a kind of affection expression. It is 'not done' among boys to hug so we tease instead. I somehow think that Halcro has the same inclination. The 'grin' expression I borowed from J. Carr. In my case it means that I have no intention whatever to (re) sell my MM carts. I need first to make a choce among them and then see further.
Regards, |
Dear friends: Here the original Empire 4000D3:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Empire-4000D-lll-Cartridge-/130518627098?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e6384331a#ht_544wt_1139
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Regards, Ct0517: From a P. Prichard presentation, 1975: "So far as Pritchard can discover, stories about suspension materials deteriorating are untrue. When the suspension fails, it's most likely because something has come apart. Cantilevers, on the other hand, do deteriorate. ADC had stylus assemblies coming undone because the cantilever and armature were made of different metals, and there was an electrolytic reaction between them. Sonus puts a plastic barrier between cantilever and armature.
The top of the line cartridge is called the Blue Label, the Red Label, or the Green Label. The same cartridge body is employed in all three. The Green is a spherical tip, the Red is biradial, and the Blue offers the Pathimax stylus, similar to the Shibata tip---Pritchard recommends the Blue as having a smoother frequency response. Because the Pathimax contacts a larger surface area the stylus traces better on heavily modulated inner grooves. It should give better record wear than the elliptical tip. Even using higher-than-usual tracking forces, Sonus has been able to play records one or two hundred times without discernible wear.
And for Nandric, from the same report: There was a question about the GE cartridge. Pritchard had worked on that classic. Stereo, they (GE) thought, was only a gimmick that would fade away. When it didn't, they did a patchwork job, ruined it, and thereby hastened their decline-- mused Pritchard: "And yet, for all we know, they could sweep the technology out from under us. Tomorrow, we could be playing records with laser beams."
Peace, |
Dear Professor, I am alas not an very bright student and must confess that I have no idea what 'GE' means or refer to. But it may be the case , as some rumours about Professors suggest, that you confused me for some other student. There are so many in this thread btw. Then while you were investigating the 'old school' carts and the life work of Prichard the 'leser beam' TT was already invented. If I am well informed the 'only' problem with this 'leser TT' was that the records needed to be clinically clean or perfect. Because thy are seldom in such a state this invention was not an success. I am also sorry to confess that whatever merits Prichard deserved I was not very impressed with his (wood) tonearm.
Regards, |
Dear Timeltel - thank you so much for the Sonus Blue information. It is just as Pritchard described it in my system – super smooth. The info on the extra layer of plastic is reassuring. This NOS cartridge cost as much as a retip – or a tank of gas : ( so it has far exceeded my expectations.
Dear Raul - on my nude sp10, ET 2.5 – That empire cartridge is definitely a notch up. It reveals all - good and bad on lps. I think I know now what you meant by Alive. It also took very little time for it to settle in.
Cheers Chris |
Dear Chris: I was unaware you own the Empire, yes is very good IMHO better not only what it looks but what we can imagine.
Do you already tested with out stylus guard?, IMHO with this cartridge is important to pull-out the stylus guard. If you want to test it ( worth to do it. ) in that way be carefully when pull-out the stylus guard, you need steady hands.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Regards, Nandric: "GE" refers to General Electric Corp. While working there Prichard designed cartridges considered collectable by some. Apologies for the obscure reference.
"Unlike the GEs with their "class-two lever" stylus beam, the ADC models had a conventional cantilever, a "class-one lever" and a tilted generator with its axis parallel to the cantilever,---yet their operating principle was similar in principle to the variable-reluctance GE designs: on both the relatively massive magnet is fixed and a low-mass iron structure is the moving element. ADC's ad agency dubbed them "induced-magnet" cartridges." (Lenco Heaven, "Clarity about the GE Magnetic Cartridges").
In Japan the common route to master an art goes through three stages: Shu-Ha-Ri. In the Shu stage, the student does exactly as the Sensei says. Ha, is to break from, to detach from tradition. In Ri, the art truly becomes the practitioner's own.
Were I a vessel, there is knowledge contained within to barely moisten the "soul" of a "Shu". On a really good day, I might have the conceit to think "Ha". Ha! It is probable that you, sir, are being "Ri"lly too modest.
Peace, |
Dear Professor, I noticed before that many Professors are very fond of quotation of other pressuposed authoritys in order to put more weight on their own arguments. But to my mind an good argument needs no help from other surces but should rely on its own force. I, for example, was not able to discovere any extraorinary sense in 'jing-jang' or similar conventional wisdom. This of course should also apply to the Japanese 'Shu-Ha-Ri'. I needed 17 years of learning to get my degree. I don't believe that this learning process can be reduced to two or three conventional wisdoms or sayings. Otherwise anyone who follows the mentioned 'wisdom' should be an academic or 'artist' in your own vocabulary. Those however are not as common as the sayings are.
Regards,
|
Dear Chris: I'm refering to the 1080LT but maybe you are talink on the 4000D3. Both cartridges " appear " in two different of my latest posts.
Anyhow, both cartridges are very good performers.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Halcro: I assume that when you posted " component of value " and between other things that means a " component with lower distortions ".
If that's true then this new component in the audio system will help as an example: that some recordings/LPs that were unlistenable in the past now we not only could listening but even enjoy it.
In my answer post to you I said: " could be exceptions " and I think there are. How is it?
Unfortunately our beloved analog source hobby is not perfect and " full " of distortions elsewhere ( well not only analog but an audio system. ). This kind of distortions in someway preclude that we can be aware of the limitations that an audio system link could has and that the overall system distortions does not permit we discern about. When our system because we add a lower distortion item or because for any reasons we achieve lower distortions in the system then that system audio link will shows its limitations that now we know is degrading the whole system quality performance level. Other advantage that gives us lower system distortions is that we can discern more easy differences under test audio item comparisons. This is true, at least in my system, because under my listening SPL tests with LPs, CDs or cartridges it is under " stress " condition the way differences and item limitations comes out, lower system distortions is mandatory to achieve this grade of discern.
I don't know which is your " take " about and if you can could be nice that you share it with us.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Btw, other than Downunder whom of you already own the Empire 1080LT? , I aprreciate that you could post your experiences with that Empire cartridge.
Regards and enjoy the music, raul. |