Dear friends: who really needs an MM type phono cartridge?, well I will try to share/explain with you what are my experiences about and I hope too that many of you could enrich the topic/subject with your own experiences.
For some years ( in this forum ) and time to time I posted that the MM type cartridge quality sound is better than we know or that we think and like four months ago I start a thread about: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1173550723&openusid&zzRauliruegas&4&5#Rauliruegas where we analyse some MM type cartridges.
Well, in the last 10-12 months I buy something like 30+ different MM type phono cartridges ( you can read in my virtual system which ones. ) and I’m still doing it. The purpose of this fact ( “ buy it “ ) is for one way to confirm or not if really those MM type cartridges are good for us ( music lovers ) and at the same time learn about MM vs MC cartridges, as a fact I learn many things other than MM/MC cartridge subject.
If we take a look to the Agon analog members at least 90% of them use ( only ) MC phono cartridges, if we take a look to the “ professional reviewers “ ( TAS, Stereophile, Positive Feedback, Enjoy the Music, etc, etc, ) 95% ( at least ) of them use only MC cartridges ( well I know that for example: REG and NG of TAS and RJR of Stereophile use only MM type cartridges!!!!!!!! ) , if we take a look to the phono cartridge manufacturers more than 90% of them build/design for MC cartridges and if you speak with audio dealers almost all will tell you that the MC cartridges is the way to go.
So, who are wrong/right, the few ( like me ) that speak that the MM type is a very good alternative or the “ whole “ cartridge industry that think and support the MC cartridge only valid alternative?
IMHO I think that both groups are not totally wrong/right and that the subject is not who is wrong/right but that the subject is : KNOW-HOW or NON KNOW-HOW about.
Many years ago when I was introduced to the “ high end “ the cartridges were almost MM type ones: Shure, Stanton, Pickering, Empire, etc, etc. In those time I remember that one dealer told me that if I really want to be nearest to the music I have to buy the Empire 4000 D ( they say for 4-channel reproduction as well. ) and this was truly my first encounter with a “ high end cartridge “, I buy the 4000D I for 70.00 dls ( I can’t pay 150.00 for the D III. ), btw the specs of these Empire cartridges were impressive even today, look: frequency response: 5-50,000Hz, channel separation: 35db, tracking force range: 0.25grs to 1.25grs!!!!!!!!, just impressive, but there are some cartridges which frequency response goes to 100,000Hz!!!!!!!!!!
I start to learn about and I follow to buying other MM type cartridges ( in those times I never imagine nothing about MC cartridges: I don’t imagine of its existence!!!. ) like AKG, Micro Acoustics, ADC, B&O, Audio Technica, Sonus, etc, etc.
Years latter the same dealer told me about the MC marvelous cartridges and he introduce me to the Denon-103 following with the 103-D and the Fulton High performance, so I start to buy and hear MC cartridges. I start to read audio magazines about either cartridge type: MM and Mc ones.
I have to make changes in my audio system ( because of the low output of the MC cartridges and because I was learning how to improve the performance of my audio system ) and I follow what the reviewers/audio dealers “ speak “ about, I was un-experienced !!!!!!!, I was learning ( well I’m yet. ).
I can tell you many good/bad histories about but I don’t want that the thread was/is boring for you, so please let me tell you what I learn and where I’m standing today about:
over the years I invested thousands of dollars on several top “ high end “ MC cartridges, from the Sumiko Celebration passing for Lyras, Koetsu, Van denHul, to Allaerts ones ( just name it and I can tell that I own or owned. ), what I already invest on MC cartridges represent almost 70-80% price of my audio system.
Suddenly I stop buying MC cartridges and decide to start again with some of the MM type cartridges that I already own and what I heard motivate me to start the search for more of those “ hidden jewels “ that are ( here and now ) the MM phono cartridges and learn why are so good and how to obtain its best quality sound reproduction ( as a fact I learn many things other than MM cartridge about. ).
I don’t start this “ finding “ like a contest between MC and MM type cartridges. The MC cartridges are as good as we already know and this is not the subject here, the subject is about MM type quality performance and how achieve the best with those cartridges.
First than all I try to identify and understand the most important characteristics ( and what they “ means “. ) of the MM type cartridges ( something that in part I already have it because our phonolinepreamp design needs. ) and its differences with the MC ones.
Well, first than all is that are high output cartridges, very high compliance ones ( 50cu is not rare. ), low or very low tracking force ones, likes 47kOhms and up, susceptible to some capacitance changes, user stylus replacement, sometimes we can use a different replacement stylus making an improvement with out the necessity to buy the next top model in the cartridge line , low and very low weight cartridges, almost all of them are build of plastic material with aluminum cantilever and with eliptical or “ old “ line contact stylus ( shibata ) ( here we don’t find: Jade/Coral/Titanium/etc, bodies or sophisticated build material cantilevers and sophisticated stylus shape. ), very very… what I say? Extremely low prices from 40.00 to 300.00 dls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, well one of my cartridges I buy it for 8.99 dls ( one month ago ): WOW!!!!!!, so any one of you can/could have/buy ten to twenty MM cartridges for the price of one of the MC cartridge you own today and the good notice is that is a chance that those 10-20 MM type cartridges even the quality performance of your MC cartridge or beat it.
Other characteristics is that the builders show how proud they were/are on its MM type cartridges design, almost all those cartridges comes with a first rate box, comes with charts/diagrams of its frequency response and cartridge channel separation ( where they tell us which test recording use it, with which VTF, at which temperature, etc, etc. ), comes with a very wide explanation of the why’s and how’s of its design and the usual explanation to mount the cartridge along with a very wide list of specifications ( that were the envy of any of today MC ones where sometimes we really don’t know nothing about. ), comes with a set of screws/nuts, comes with a stylus brush and even with stylus cleaning fluid!!!!!!!!!, my GOD. Well, there are cartridges like the Supex SM 100MK2 that comes with two different stylus!!!! One with spherical and one with elliptical/shibata shape and dear friends all those in the same low low price!!!!!!!!!!!
Almost all the cartridges I own you can find it through Ebay and Agon and through cartridge dealers and don’t worry if you loose/broke the stylus cartridge or you find the cartridge but with out stylus, you always can/could find the stylus replacement, no problem about there are some stylus and cartridge sources.
When I’m talking about MM type cartridges I’m refer to different types: moving magnet, moving iron, moving flux, electret, variable reluctance, induced magnet, etc, etc. ( here is not the place to explain the differences on all those MM type cartridges. Maybe on other future thread. ).
I made all my very long ( time consuming ) cartridge tests using four different TT’s: Acoustic Signature Analog One MK2, Micro Seiki RX-5000, Luxman PD 310 and Technics SP-10 MK2, I use only removable headshell S and J shape tonearms with 15mm on overhang, I use different material build/ shape design /weight headshells. I test each cartridge in at least three different tonearms and some times in 3-4 different headshells till I find the “ right “ match where the cartridge perform the best, no I’m not saying that I already finish or that I already find the “ perfect “ match: cartridge/headshell/tonearm but I think I’m near that ideal target.
Through my testing experience I learn/ confirm that trying to find the right tonearm/headshell for any cartridge is well worth the effort and more important that be changing the TT. When I switch from a TT to another different one the changes on the quality cartridge performance were/are minimal in comparison to a change in the tonearm/headshell, this fact was consistent with any of those cartridges including MC ones.
So after the Phonolinepreamplifier IMHO the tonearm/headshell match for any cartridge is the more important subject, it is so important and complex that in the same tonearm ( with the same headshell wires ) but with different headshell ( even when the headshell weight were the same ) shape or build material headshell the quality cartridge performance can/could be way different.
All those experiences told me that chances are that the cartridge that you own ( MC or MM ) is not performing at its best because chances are that the tonearm you own is not the best match for that cartridge!!!!!!, so imagine what do you can/could hear when your cartridge is or will be on the right tonearm???!!!!!!!!, IMHO there are ( till today ) no single ( any type at any price ) perfect universal tonearm. IMHO there is no “ the best tonearm “, what exist or could exist is a “ best tonearm match for “ that “ cartridge “, but that’s all. Of course that are “ lucky “ tonearms that are very good match for more than one cartridge but don’t for every single cartridge.
I posted several times that I’m not a tonearm collector, that I own all those tonearms to have alternatives for my cartridges and with removable headshells my 15 tonearms are really like 100+ tonearms : a very wide options/alternatives for almost any cartridge!!!!!!
You can find several of these MM type cartridges new brand or NOS like: Ortofon, Nagaoka, Audio Technica, Astatic, B&O, Rega, Empire, Sonus Reson,Goldring,Clearaudio, Grado, Shelter, Garrot, etc. and all of them second hand in very good operational condition. As a fact I buy two and even three cartridges of the same model in some of the cartridges ( so right now I have some samples that I think I don’t use any more. ) to prevent that one of them arrive in non operational condition but I’m glad to say that all them arrive in very fine conditions. I buy one or two of the cartridges with no stylus or with the stylus out of work but I don’t have any trouble because I could find the stylus replacement on different sources and in some case the original new replacement.
All these buy/find cartridges was very time consuming and we have to have a lot of patience and a little lucky to obtain what we are looking for but I can asure you that is worth of it.
Ok, I think it is time to share my performance cartridge findings:
first we have to have a Phonolinepreamplifier with a very good MM phono stage ( at least at the same level that the MC stage. ). I’m lucky because my Phonolinepreamplifier has two independent phono stages, one for the MM and one for MC: both were designed for the specifics needs of each cartridge type, MM or MC that have different needs.
we need a decent TT and decent tonearm.
we have to load the MM cartridges not at 47K but at 100K ( at least 75K not less. ).
I find that using 47K ( a standard manufacture recommendation ) prevent to obtain the best quality performance, 100K make the difference. I try this with all those MM type cartridges and in all of them I achieve the best performance with 100K load impedance.
I find too that using the manufacturer capacitance advise not always is for the better, till “ the end of the day “ I find that between 100-150pf ( total capacitance including cable capacitance. ) all the cartridges performs at its best.
I start to change the load impedance on MM cartridges like a synonymous that what many of us made with MC cartridges where we try with different load impedance values, latter I read on the Empire 4000 DIII that the precise load impedance must be 100kOhms and in a white paper of some Grace F9 tests the used impedance value was 100kOhms, the same that I read on other operational MM cartridge manual and my ears tell/told me that 100kOhms is “ the value “.
Before I go on I want to remember you that several of those MM type cartridges ( almost all ) were build more than 30+ years ago!!!!!!!! and today performs at the same top quality level than today MC/MM top quality cartridges!!!!!, any brand at any price and in some ways beat it.
I use 4-5 recordings that I know very well and that give me the right answers to know that any cartridge is performing at its best or near it. Many times what I heard through those recordings were fine: everything were on target however the music don’t come “ alive “ don’t “ tell me “ nothing, I was not feeling the emotion that the music can communicate. In those cartridge cases I have to try it in other tonearm and/or with a different headshell till the “ feelings comes “ and only when this was achieved I then was satisfied.
All the tests were made with a volume level ( SPL ) where the recording “ shines “ and comes alive like in a live event. Sometimes changing the volume level by 1-1.5 db fixed everything.
Of course that the people that in a regular manner attend to hear/heard live music it will be more easy to know when something is right or wrong.
Well, Raul go on!!: one characteristic on the MM cartridges set-up was that almost all them likes to ride with a positive ( little/small ) VTA only the Grace Ruby and F9E and Sonus Gold Blue likes a negative VTA , on the other hand with the Nagaoka MP 50 Super and the Ortofon’s I use a flat VTA.
Regarding the VTF I use the manufacturer advise and sometimes 0.1+grs. Of course that I made fine tuning through moderate changes in the Azymuth and for anti-skate I use between half/third VTF value.
I use different material build headshells: aluminum, composite aluminum, magnesium, composite magnesium, ceramic, wood and non magnetic stainless steel, these cartridges comes from Audio Technica, Denon, SAEC, Technics, Fidelity Research, Belldream, Grace, Nagaoka, Koetsu, Dynavector and Audiocraft. All of them but the wood made ( the wood does not likes to any cartridge. ) very good job . It is here where a cartridge could seems good or very good depending of the headshell where is mounted and the tonearm. Example, I have hard time with some of those cartridge like the Audio Technica AT 20SS where its performance was on the bright sound that sometimes was harsh till I find that the ceramic headshell was/is the right match now this cartridge perform beautiful, something similar happen with the Nagaoka ( Jeweltone in Japan ), Shelter , Grace, Garrot , AKG and B&O but when were mounted in the right headshell/tonearm all them performs great.
Other things that you have to know: I use two different cooper headshell wires, both very neutral and with similar “ sound “ and I use three different phono cables, all three very neutral too with some differences on the sound performance but nothing that “ makes the difference “ on the quality sound of any of my cartridges, either MM or MC, btw I know extremely well those phono cables: Analysis Plus, Harmonic Technologies and Kimber Kable ( all three the silver models. ), finally and don’t less important is that those phono cables were wired in balanced way to take advantage of my Phonolinepreamp fully balanced design.
What do you note the first time you put your MM cartridge on the record?, well a total absence of noise/hum or the like that you have through your MC cartridges ( and that is not a cartridge problem but a Phonolinepreamp problem due to the low output of the MC cartridges. ), a dead silent black ( beautiful ) soundstage where appear the MUSIC performance, this experience alone is worth it.
The second and maybe the most important MM cartridge characteristic is that you hear/heard the MUSIC flow/run extremely “ easy “ with no distracting sound distortions/artifacts ( I can’t explain exactly this very important subject but it is wonderful ) even you can hear/heard “ sounds/notes “ that you never before heard it and you even don’t know exist on the recording: what a experience!!!!!!!!!!!
IMHO I think that the MUSIC run so easily through a MM cartridge due ( between other facts ) to its very high compliance characteristic on almost any MM cartridge.
This very high compliance permit ( between other things like be less sensitive to out-center hole records. ) to these cartridges stay always in contact with the groove and never loose that groove contact not even on the grooves that were recorded at very high velocity, something that a low/medium cartridge compliance can’t achieve, due to this low/medium compliance characteristic the MC cartridges loose ( time to time and depending of the recorded velocity ) groove contact ( minute extremely minute loose contact, but exist. ) and the quality sound performance suffer about and we can hear it, the same pass with the MC cartridges when are playing the inner grooves on a record instead the very high compliance MM cartridges because has better tracking drive perform better than the MC ones at inner record grooves and here too we can hear it.
Btw, some Agoners ask very worried ( on more than one Agon thread ) that its cartridge can’t track ( clean ) the cannons on the 1812 Telarc recording and usually the answers that different people posted were something like this: “””” don’t worry about other than that Telarc recording no other commercial recording comes recorded at that so high velocity, if you don’t have trouble with other of your LP’s then stay calm. “””””
Well, this standard answer have some “ sense “ but the people ( like me ) that already has/have the experience to hear/heard a MM or MC ( like the Ortofon MC 2000 or the Denon DS1, high compliance Mc cartridges. ) cartridge that pass easily the 1812 Telarc test can tell us that those cartridges make a huge difference in the quality sound reproduction of any “ normal “ recording, so it is more important that what we think to have a better cartridge tracking groove drive!!!!
There are many facts around the MM cartridge subject but till we try it in the right set-up it will be ( for some people ) difficult to understand “ those beauties “. Something that I admire on the MM cartridges is how ( almost all of them ) they handle the frequency extremes: the low bass with the right pitch/heft/tight/vivid with no colorations of the kind “ organic !!” that many non know-how people speak about, the highs neutral/open/transparent/airy believable like the live music, these frequency extremes handle make that the MUSIC flow in our minds to wake up our feelings/emotions that at “ the end of the day “ is all what a music lover is looking for. These not means that these cartridges don’t shine on the midrange because they do too and they have very good soundstage but here is more system/room dependent.
Well we have a very good alternative on the ( very low price ) MM type cartridges to achieve that music target and I’m not saying that you change your MC cartridge for a MM one: NO, what I’m trying to tell you is that it is worth to have ( as many you can buy/find ) the MM type cartridges along your MC ones
I want to tell you that I can live happy with any of those MM cartridges and I’m not saying with this that all of them perform at the same quality level NO!! what I’m saying is that all of them are very good performers, all of them approach you nearest to the music.
If you ask me which one is the best I can tell you that this will be a very hard “ call “ an almost impossible to decide, I think that I can make a difference between the very good ones and the stellar ones where IMHO the next cartridges belongs to this group:
Audio Technica ATML 170 and 180 OCC, Grado The Amber Tribute, Grace Ruby, Garrot P77, Nagaoka MP-50 Super, B&O MMC2 and MMC20CL, AKG P8ES SuperNova, Reson Reca ,Astatic MF-100 and Stanton LZS 981.
There are other ones that are really near this group: ADC Astrion, Supex MF-100 MK2, Micro Acoustics MA630/830, Empire 750 LTD and 600LAC, Sonus Dimension 5, Astatic MF-200 and 300 and the Acutex 320III.
The other ones are very good too but less refined ones. I try too ( owned or borrowed for a friend ) the Shure IV and VMR, Music maker 2-3 and Clearaudio Virtuoso/Maestro, from these I could recommended only the Clearaudios the Shure’s and Music Maker are almost mediocre ones performers. I forgot I try to the B&O Soundsmith versions, well this cartridges are good but are different from the original B&O ( that I prefer. ) due that the Sounsmith ones use ruby cantilevers instead the original B&O sapphire ones that for what I tested sounds more natural and less hi-fi like the ruby ones.
What I learn other that the importance on the quality sound reproduction through MM type cartridges?, well that unfortunately the advance in the design looking for a better quality cartridge performers advance almost nothing either on MM and MC cartridges.
Yes, today we have different/advanced body cartridge materials, different cantilever build materials, different stylus shape/profile, different, different,,,,different, but the quality sound reproduction is almost the same with cartridges build 30+ years ago and this is a fact. The same occur with TT’s and tonearms. Is sad to speak in this way but it is what we have today. Please, I’m not saying that some cartridges designs don’t grow up because they did it, example: Koetsu they today Koetsu’s are better performers that the old ones but against other cartridges the Koetsu ones don’t advance and many old and today cartridges MM/MC beat them easily.
Where I think the audio industry grow-up for the better are in electronic audio items ( like the Phonolinepreamps ), speakers and room treatment, but this is only my HO.
I know that there are many things that I forgot and many other things that we have to think about but what you can read here is IMHO a good point to start.
Dear firneds: If you are an Empire 4000D3 owner and you have some time not listen to it I urge to start to do and maybe you will be surprised as I'm for its very high quality level performance.
Last time I listened was in 2010 and in all this almost 9 years my room/audio system was and still is up-grading and this Empire very old cartridge is just great one.
If some of you do not own yet then try to find out a sample in good operation condition.
Interesting. Could very well be a function of using headphones, I don’t know. Obviously, I can’t know what it sounds like in your room and my comments are a comparison of the three recorded sounds and which sounds more realistic to me. I do know that the sound that I hear from the zoom recorder version sounds, overall, less electronic and closer to what I would expect to hear live. The main difference is tonal. There is an obvious quality to the sound with the iPhone that is, to my ears, pinched and which gives the sound of the bass an almost metallic quality; a little nasal. That quality, in spite of the overall improvement from going to an external mic, carries over to that version; to a lesser degree, but it is there. The iPhone’s mic may be its main limiting factor, but certainly not the only one. The zoom recorder version has, for me, better instrumental textures and tonality; I don’t hear that pinched metallic quality. So, I hope that is what it sounds like tonally in your room 😉. I will say that the zoomrecorder version does sound as if the instruments are slightly closer to the recording mic(s). Perhaps that is a factor, but I still hear at least as much room sound with the zoom recorder. Regards.
Hot news off the presses..... As you may or may not know......Jico have not been supplying SAS styli for a year or more. I just received an Email from them:-
We restart to take SAS/Sapphire, SAS/Ruby and SAS/Boron orders on JICO Web Shop.
So as well as the Neo-SAS with the ruby and sapphire cantilevers.....one can now order again, the original SAS with boron 😍 This of course is of interest, only to MM cartridge users.....🤗
Dear @travbrow : Good for you. Please share your experiences when all is done.
Yes, is made it for high compliance cartridges but works fine with medium cu and some low cu as the 103.
That tonearm is one of the designs where exist and anti skate mechanism that according to the stylus shape ( sperical, ellipthical and LC. ) we make the AS set up.
The tonearm has very good design engeneering efforts on it and high build quality.
Its removable straigth arm wand ( like the Micro Seiki MAX 282. ) makes easy that the toneam works with different carrtridges. If we have the removable arm wands it fuction as a removable headshell tonearm designs. Exist too and S shaped arm wand with removable headshell. At, made very good job down there. AT main priority tonearm 1100 design was to fulfill the cartridge needs. Not a " perfect " arm but has that approach.
I suspect Frogman....there are many, many 'true' lurkers....not just here....but on all Forums. No negatives that I can see....it's a great way to learn and absorb new ideas and information 🤓
Thank you for your evaluation of the three recording techniques. You're right about the iPhone's built-in microphone being the 'weak-link' in an otherwise impressive device.
I'm a little nonplussed however, at your preference for the Zoom 2Qn recording because to my ears.....the external mike into the iPhone is the closest facsimile (of the three) to the sound I perceive from my listening position...🧐 Listening on both my iPad and iMac...the Zoom 2Qn just doesn't seem to project the 'room' reflections as well as the external mic into the iPhone... Perhaps this is a function of hearing through headphones do you think...?
Propagation velocity or another metric based on stiffness and density are reasonable simple ways to compare materials.
A more meaningful and precise way would be to define error between tip motion and coil/magnet/iron movement. An ideal cantilever material will have the two related by geometric proportionality constant, which would independent of the groove modulation (forced displacement, in engineering language).
Here things will get slighly complicated, as we would need to calculate the curvature of the cantilever beam under load. If one looks up the standard beam equations (Roarke, for example), there is a quantity present called cross-sectional moment of inertia. For a circle, it is pi*r^4/4. The higher this quantity, the lower the cantilever bending - this is direct mechanical distortion.
So, here the ductile alloys may offer a practical improvement over ceramics and elemental metals - they can be manufactured as a very thin wall tube, while other materials would not be. They can also be shaped as a conical pipe, which is was never done with vapor deposited Boron.
A practical cantilever "figure of merit" would be (E*I)/(A*d), where E is Young’s modulus, I is the area moment of inertia, A is area and d is density. If one looks up typical dimensions of aluminum vs. boron pipe cantilevers, aluminum would loose but by a lesser amount than with a simpler metric.
And surveing the classic designs, you would see attempts by manufacturers who stayed with aluminum to leverage its manufacturing benefits by making the cantilever short and rather fat, yet with a very thin wall - Stanton is a good example.
"""
i’ve been able to compare Aluminum versus Boron on Glanz. ""
so what: same cartridge motor.
I compared Clavis DC with ceramic blend cantilever material against boron cantilever and boron wins why? because with the same carrtridge motor boron cantilever permorfms better than the original ceralloy build material..ADC 26 against ADC 27, both same motors and same aluminum cantilever but the 27 stylus is nude ellipthical against the 26 non-nude ellipthical. Both sounds similar but the 27 win for a " hair ".
"""
you will find more information from different posters. """, that confirms that Astatic cartridge motor is different than the Glanz cartridge motor.
You can't win but maybe in the long future can assimilate that fact.
and you for fourrth time in this thread posted the Mitachi statements where this is absolutely WRONG:
"""
BORON isconsidered as an ideal material of cantilever in its character that transmits sound to fast as 7 times than Aluminum, """
totally ignorant about. Which letter in the word WRONG you did and do not understand that made it you again posted that Mitachi ignorant statement in that specific regards.
Chak, Not for a minute would I challenge your or Harold’s knowledge about the Glanz and Astatic cartridges; I have never owned any sample of either brand.
Thanks Lew. You can read more in the dedicated Glanz thread, you will find more information from different posters. Soon i will add the documentations right there, i think we have to separate my posts from this thread in the future.
But I do have two comments: (1) I have said this before, so sorry for sounding like "a broken record", but you have two independent observations; first, a cartridge has a boron cantilever (or beryllium or you name it) and second, you like that cartridge over another very similar cartridge of the same brand and/or type that has an alu cantilever.
It sounds like i’m crazy about that Glanz 61 by Mitachi, but i have better cartridges at the moment, i only post about Glanz for a reason. Some people just trying to make a "legend" out of an average cartridge (such as Astatic 100, 200 or 2500). Always talking about tiny difference like 0.25g tracking force or slightly lower or higher inductance etc, instead of pointing out that a cantilever and different stylus will make a HUGE DIFFERENCE in sound.
As pointed out by the manufacturer (MItachi Corporation):
"MFG-61, as the most prestige model among Glanz MF cartridges, employs BORON cantilever in order to achieve maximum efficiency at the electro-magnetic mechanism, where characterized most advanced feature of MF cartridge, when the nergy is converted from mechanical vibration system to electric vibration system. BORON isconsidered as an ideal material of cantilever in its character that transmits sound to fast as 7 times than Aluminum, due to its large young rate and small specific gravity. With use of Boron cantilever, the signal picked up from disc to specially designed PH stylus tip is faithfully transfered to the conversion system, and hi-fidelity sound reproduced."
You cannot from these two bits of information alone conclude that boron is always better than aluminum. Second, the fact that boron "transmits sound" faster than aluminum (if that is so) would have nothing to do with its possible superiority as a cantilever material; the job of the cantilever is to faithfully transmit the motion of the stylus tip, not "sound" from the grooves. (I know you know this, but think about it.)
Where did i said "it’s always better than aluminum" ? I said i have a dozen of LOMS (for example) with Aluminum cantilevers and they are amazing (Miyabi MCA by Takeda, FR-7fz by Ikeda just to name a few), but they are MC and it’s completely different design from the legendary cartridge designers.
But comparing one Mitachi MF cartridge to another Mitachi MF cartridge the Boron/PH is far more impressive than any of them.
I don’t think you will buy Glanz 610LX with Boron cantilever to compare it to any other Glanz Astatic which you will have to buy too. But if you will do that, i think, it will be obvious to you which one is better. I did that, the only difference is than my Glanz is not 610LX (Line Contact diamond on Boron cantilever), but a very rare Glanz 61 with different Boron cantilever and different, special type, "PH" tip (made in 1982). However, i think the closest cartridge to my 61 is newer 610LX (which is too cheap now, just $450 including shipping from Japan on ebay).
I think it makes no sense to find/buy any Astatic or any other Glanz when one of the best ones available NOS just for $450 with shipping ?
We will wait for Halcro’s verdict, but i must say that 610LX is not 61 (i will add close up picutres in the Glanz thread soon).
P.S. I don’t know why, but all my favorite vintage MM/MI cartridges, which i can judge ONLY by the sounds quality, are all have exotic cantilevers such as Boron, Beryllium, Ruby, Sapphire, Ceramic and Titanium too.
There are only two cartridges with Aluminum cantilevers that i like, but they are not the best in my collection, those carts are Garrott p77 and Grado Signature XTZ (but they are much better than any Glanz or Astatic for sure, except the Glanz 61).
The only problem is that i can’t buy original styli designed by the manufacturer using different type of the cantilevers to compare them.
But luckily i’ve been able to compare Aluminum versus Boron on Glanz. I can also compare anytime all types on my Grace F14 and LEVEL II and the aluminum versions can’t win the contest for some reason.
Dear @lewm@harold-not-the-barrel : "" the job of the cantilever is to faithfully transmit the motion of the stylus tip, not "sound" """
agree and the remark from Mitachi that the speed of sound transmission on boron was the reason to use boron is totally non-adequated. But Mitachi is totally wrong when said that boron is 7 times faster than aluminum: WRONG. So Mitachi is no reference for no one in that regards.Mitachi was spreading " corrupted " information that srves no one but that person to stays in the very very low knowledge levels.
Btw, Diamond material is the best cantilever material and then boron. Diamond speed sound transmission is 12K m/s and boron 11K m/s and depending of the kind of aluminum used can has 9K m/s. Btw, berilyum has a little over 12K m/s and ceratinly is not the best cantilever material against diamond or boron that are the top cartridge manufacturer choice and certainly not because " speed " but for other reasons that already were analyzed in this thread and other threads.
I agree in almost all what HNTB posted and main problem with the russian is that he think that because Mitachi manufactured for Glanz, Astatic, Micro Seiki and many others was Mitachi whom decided all about how each model has to sounds/performs.
In the case of Astatic was their people whom decided everything on the cartridge motor design and cartridge built materials and that’s why exist differences with Glanz on output levels, inductance and many other cartridge parameters. But not only that was Astatic whom voiced its cartridges and decided the quality level performance they wanted to achieve not Mitachi. Micro Seiki did it this way too and that’s why exist diffedrences.
But there is ( between other things ) a main subject that that person not yet understand even that he read from me and other gentlemans the absolutely main cartridge characteristic that is what makes the main differences in between: CARTRIDGE MOTOR.
The Astatic MF2500 was in the market way before than the MF-100 series and its cartridge motor is different from the MF 100 and it’s showed through his superior quality level performance. Seems to me that the " new " MF 100 series were designeddesigned/voiced but different persons inside Astatic.
Btw, Scan-Tech manufactured LOMC cartridges for Audioquest and Linn ( between others. ) I owned its top of the line models and the Audioquest performs different than the Linn one, both with similar prices. Of course was niot Scan-Tech whom decided the quality level performance of AQ or LINN but were AQ and Linn whom decided about in the same way Astatic did it.
Other example: Benz Micro and VDH were involved in the Carnegie phono carrtridges for Madrigal company but whom decided exactly the quality level performance through its cartridge voicing was the people of Madrigal not BM/VDH. I own those Cargie’s and are far away from VDH or BM cartridge performance characteristics. Btw, the Cargie 2 is the star down there I sold the One that was really inferior to.
I already learned that cartridge specs in reality can’t tell us the whole picture. Technics EPC P100C MK4 ( tha’s a really fine cartridge design. ) owns perhaps the best frequency response specs of any MM cartridge and is outperformed by the MF-2500, ADC ( extremely humble, not only because its aluminum cantilever or ellipthical stylus shape but because even its pin connectors are not even gold platyed ! ! ? ? ) 26/27 or the AKG P100LE and no one of these cartridges can’t compete with the specs in the Technics.
Main difference for the better?: different CARTRIDGE MOTOR.
That person can’t learn and never will do because has a very high frustration that I already pointed out and his target is to win the discussion no matters what.
A discussion is not for see who wins but for all the reading gentlemans can win. We need winners down here not loosers as him.
I have to say in his merit: that’s a very good phothograper ( maybe is what he needs to dedicate ) and is a very good web navegator, he has here another alternative for he can do it instead to waste his time in audio forums.
I know it’s futile and useles to explain some thing to a person that has incapacity to learn but I post because every day comes at this kind of forums newcomers/rookies and we have to try not spread mis-information or stupid things but the other way around: that the new comers can trust in Agon as a forum where they can find true help. I think that is a responsability to each one that post in this forum and not try to win a discussion with out true facts and to have those true facts we need to learn.
Chak, Not for a minute would I challenge your or Harold's knowledge about the Glanz and Astatic cartridges; I have never owned any sample of either brand. But I do have two comments: (1) I have said this before, so sorry for sounding like "a broken record", but you have two independent observations; first, a cartridge has a boron cantilever (or beryllium or you name it) and second, you like that cartridge over another very similar cartridge of the same brand and/or type that has an alu cantilever. You cannot from these two bits of information alone conclude that boron is always better than aluminum. Second, the fact that boron "transmits sound" faster than aluminum (if that is so) would have nothing to do with its possible superiority as a cantilever material; the job of the cantilever is to faithfully transmit the motion of the stylus tip, not "sound" from the grooves. (I know you know this, but think about it.)
Hi Raul, yes I did purchase an Audio Technica AT 1100. I’ve read very good opinions on its performance with the higher compliance cartridges. It looks to be very well engineered compared to most of the “standard” type tonearms.
It iwill be interesting comparing it to my homemade tonearm. I will install it on the same turntable as my homemade one.
Chak, your biggest mistake is not that limitless arrogance as a novice but you simply cannot take a man´s word. "Your" Pyramidian MFG-71L has the lowest VTF of all the MFG-XXX series, a possible exception is your MFG-61L.
The MFG-61 does not have an "L" letter, you have never seen this cartridge and you don’t know why there is no "L" letter. The model is MFG-61 (not "61L", not "610LX", nothing like that, because the stylus is NOT "L" a LINE CONTACT, but a PH type).
I have explained many times why one Mitachi model is beter than nearly all other Mitachi models in my system, pointed you to Very Special Cantilever and Very Special Stylus tip that makes one particular model better than any other models from that manufacturer (Mitachi Corporation). I don’t need "your word" here, thanks to another member of this forum who emailed me both manuals for Glanz 61 and Astatic MF-2500 two days ago. And if you can’t post and proove what you’re sayin i will post and proove it to you. Right now you can scroll down to read my quotes directly from he both printed manuals, maybe you will understand what Mitachi engineers explained for people like you?
So why are you trying to say that inferior cartridge is better, just because you have it? I have no problem with that. We’re talking about fact here, technical specs, not about "man’s words". I have no idea what system do you have to judge about cartridges.
I don’t know what are you trying to proove here, i sold my 71L because this model, like every other models in Glanz and Aststic line, is inferior and does not have the sound i am looking for. I have compared them and the champ is definitely Glanz MFG 61, this cartridge has the best cantilever, the best stylus, the best sound of them all. But i will not call it the "best cartridge" in the universe, i have many great carts.
So the flattes frequency response of 71L does not help, sorry. I don’t like the muddy sound of that cartridge, also i don’t like the sound of Astatic MF100, Astatic MF-200 and Glanz 31L. .... compared to the wonderful and extended sound coming from Glanz MFG-61 )a way better cart than all of them).
Your manual is different than mine which is quite impossible or maybe a copy taken from somewhere, or perhaps you need to get new glasses.
As a "novice" i don’t need a glasses, you want me to post a manual right here if you can’t ?
I have a Micro-Ridge stylus in my ASTATIC MF-100 MR sample. Another novice reading your post about believes that no such thing exists and gets wrong information about. So you are living in a world of illusions, and your knowledge is limited.
Google does not have any single mention of the MR stylus for Astatic cartridge, except your posts on audiogon for some reason. So it is not only me, but no one can find anything about such stylus made for Astatic MF series.
If your stylus is different, it’s interesting, but it’s not the reason to say that my knowledge is limited, the ASTATIC MANUAL is my reference. Maybe your cartridge was retipped with MR? :)
I have NEVER seen a Micro Ridge stylus for Astatic MF-100 and you’re talking to a person who would like to see your stylus, because no one seen such stylus yet, it would be very nice if you can just take a picture and upload it for us if you really want to contribute and to share something interesting. Please do that if you want to fill the gap in my knowledge.
Also i would like to see the original Astatic manual where i can read the stylus is MicroRidge, please provide some valid information. Any links maybe?
Before that i will look at the Astatic box of the stylus replacement to read once again that the stylus type is Shibata.
Shibata, LineContact and MicroRdge are all great profiles, but they are all could be much better on Boron cantilevers than on Aluminum when it comes to those Moving Flux cartridges made by Mitachi.
You think that something beyond your knowledge doesn´t exist.That´s your second big mistake. Your third is belittling modern sophisticated aluminium cantilever designs with nude diamonds and that a certain cantilever is the best perse. Don´t take my word, people here like Nandric can enlighten you, if you are really interested. You may learn something new here.
Look, we’re talking about cartridges made by Mitachi, not just about every cartridge in the world and not about MC cartridges, right? I have a dozen of amazing MC cartridges with aluminum cantilevers, but they are LOMC (completely different design), not Moving Flux or MM or MI with replacement styli.
If we’re tallking about Mitachi cartridges (call them Glanz, Jamo, Astatic, Azzurra ... whatever, they are all nearly the same internally). In my experience, after i have tried many of them, the biggest difference (huge difference) has a cartridge made by Mitachi with Boron Cantilever and "PH" stylus tip. This cartridge is Glanz MFG-61. So in case with Mitachi Moving Flux cartridges the cantilever material makes HUGE difference.
You failed to show us the assumed similarity of the GLANZ and ASTATIC series. Actually your are not an expert in these cartridges, you may not even know the essential optimal VTF of your beloved 61L. You think that you know all things in Hi-Fi. Well, we all make mistakes in some point, apparently even you :)
What’s wrong with you Harrold? The VTF for all of them is nearly the same! In my next post i will add scans of the actual manuals for your adorable Astatic MF-2500 and my Glanz MF61 that i have received from another member.
I am not wrong in anything i have said here about similarity of the Glanz and Astatic, they are the same internally (or nearly the same, depends on the model, that you can’t detect any difference by ear) and people who are wrong is YOU and MEXICAN ! Because you’re both don’t yet acquired the best cartridge made by Mitachi Corporation, you just continually repeated what the Maxican said about his MF2500 (which is nothing special). The only difference is that it was him who continually claimed that the best cantilever is Boron (not the aluminum), but he always contradict to himself, so i don’t care. You may have different opinion as i can see, that’s ok if you like the aluminum over boron (just a bit strange).
Let’s get back to the facts, so this is what i can see right now in the manuals, a pictures of the actual printed manuals supplied by the manufacturer with the cartridges:
1) From the printed Astatic MF-2500 manual: -Output Voltage: 3 mV -Output Channel Balance: 1.0 or less -Inductance: 120 -Tracking force 1.25 (+/- 0.25) -Stylus tip: Solid Diamond LineContact
The cantilever on MF2500 and on EVERY Astatic cartridges is Aluminum, so the MF-100 or MF200 are all comes with Aluminum cantilevers. Just sayin’.
2) From the printed Glanz MF-61 manual: -Output Voltage: 3.5 mV -Output Channel Balance: 1.0 or less -Inductance: 120 -Tracking force 1.5 (+/- 0.25) -Stylus tip: SPECIAL DESIGN "PH" TIP -Cantilever: BORON
You will be surprised by the Mitachi engineers prefers BORON for their top of the line model of MF cartridge and below you can read a paragraph from the actual printed manual for Glanz MF-61 cartridge:
"MFG-61, as the most prestige model among Glanz MF cartridges, employs BORON cantilever in order to achieve maximum efficiency at the electro-magnetic mechanism, where characterized most advanced feature of MF cartridge, when the energy is converted from mechanical vibration system to electric vibration system. BORON is considered as an ideal material of cantilever in its character that transmits sound so fast as 7 times than Aluminum, due to its large young rate and small specific gravity. With use of Boron cantilever, the signal picked up from disc to specially designed PH stylus tip is faithfully transfered to the conversion system, and hi-fidelity sound reproduced."
Btw, congrats on your very rare find GLANZ MFG-61L, it may very well be the finest sounding of all mentioned MF cartridges.
Thanks. The model is MFG-61 to be correct, not the MF-61L (this model does not exists). Also the 610LX is not identical to the MFG-61, because the stylus tip of MFG-61 is "Special Designed PH" and not a "LineContact" as on avery other models with "L" or "LX" letters.
And that superiority of 100 kOhm resistance as the universal standard is another illusion. Actually my best MMs such as Audio-Technica AT-ML180 sounded harsh and awful at 100K.
Nothing sound harsh on my full range crossover-less Zu Audio Druid speakers with First Watt F2J power amp and Pass Labs Aleph L or First Watt B2 preamp with any phono stage i have tried with 100k Ohm. And, i i said, i have 3 different phono stages and i also use 47k Ohm loading (not always 100k Ohm). But the AT-ML170 and AT-ML180 are all great at 100k Ohm in my system which i thingk it’s pretty neutral.
Frankly, I´m disappointed in you writings and your overall attitude that has become quite strange, especially to some people here obviously. Neutrality and polite behauviour you used to have is gone.
Who cares? Any of that people insulted you previously as they are insulted me and others?
You’d better speak about cartridges, simple facts that you can not provide yet, not about personalities, because i have never said anything about your personality yet. So why do you think i have to read your comments about my personality? If anyone will call me "ignorant" or will post disinformation on public forum do not expect my neutrality. Everyone can make a fact checking.
I bought the gear they said I wanted, whether I needed it or not. PayPal the scourge of our time. Ended up with a rig, What it cost should be a crime
Worked 12 hours a day, Found little time my music to play. So stayed up nights and weekends Listening to all that high end gear. Then there was this cartridge they said I wanted.
No time for Sly and the Family Stone, Never caught up on my sleep, Always tired to the bone. But you must have this cartridge they said. Before you capture all nuance in Live Grateful Dead
How to buy that cartridge I stressed over all the time, They said I had to have it, it was better than mine. So distracted I lost the wife And the cottage, house and my job. So now in cars I listen to radios, Not all bad, sometimes it's a Bose.
Chak, your biggest mistake is not that limitless arrogance as a novice but you simply cannot take a man´s word. "Your" Pyramidian MFG-71L has the lowest VTF of all the MFG-XXX series, a possible exception is your MFG-61L. And it does have the flattest FR of all others, maybe excepting the 61L, according to the manual/sheet I just right now read. Your manual is different than mine which is quite impossible or maybe a copy taken from somewhere, or perhaps you need to get new glasses. I have a Micro-Ridge stylus in my ASTATIC MF-100 MR sample. Another novice reading your post about believes that no such thing exists and gets wrong information about. So you are living in a world of illusions, and your knowledge is limited. You think that something beyond your knowledge doesn´t exist.That´s your second big mistake. Your third is belittling modern sophisticated aluminium cantilever designs with nude diamonds and that a certain cantilever is the best perse. Don´t take my word, people here like Nandric can enlighten you, if you are really interested. You may learn something new here.
You failed to show us the assumed similarity of the GLANZ and ASTATIC series. Actually your are not an expert in these cartridges, you may not even know the essential optimal VTF of your beloved 61L. You think that you know all things in Hi-Fi. Well, we all make mistakes in some point, apparently even you :) Btw, congrats on your very rare find GLANZ MFG-61L, it may very well be the finest sounding of all mentioned MF cartridges. But we haven´t yet experienced those Micro-Seiki MFs a guy named Raul once mentioned ...Anyway, you´d better enjoy your 61L as long as its fine stylus profile lasts but it will wear out sooner that you can think of. Meanwhile I will my MF2500 ...
And that superiority of 100 kOhm resistance as the universal standard is another illusion. Actually my best MMs such as Audio-Technica AT-ML180 sounded harsh and awful at 100K.
Frankly, I´m disappointed in you writings and your overall attitude that has become quite strange, especially to some people here obviously. Neutrality and polite behauviour you used to have is gone. So that´s for your credibility. You may have been the fastest leaning novice hear on A´gon but you have become the fastest forgetting novice instead : )
The issue of how some sort of language barrier can play into some of the disputes here has been mentioned previously. Along those lines, for me, “lurking” has negative connotations 😊; so...
Re Halcro’s recording method shootout and request for impressions:
Taking into account the fact that there is an inconsistent variable (two different cartridges), for me, it’s no contest. The iphone version sounds way too tight in the timbre and texture departments. Same for room sound; way too constricted with little air. Reminds me of early “good” solid state.
The zoomrecorder version is, for me, by far the best. I much prefer this sound in spite of the fact that the Grace mistracks in spots and seems to be on the verge of mistracking in others. Nice textures and better sense of the body of the instrument and the expansive ambience in the room. That recorder seems to allow one to hear much deeper into the recording and the expression in the playing. It appears that that the iPhone’s mic is very limiting since the version with the external mic is closer in overall sound to the zoomrecorder than it is to the straight iPhone which clearly gives the impresssion of being the inferior recording device.
Dear friends: I will try this with several LPs that some one gave me by free but that are in very bad conditions.
Not only because very old recordings but because the place where he had in stock at his place ( with out been aware of it. ) be flooded and the LPs " lives " below water and dust for years. We will see if this works:
As Audiogon approaches its 20th anniversary, we have begun to look deep into our site history to unearth things like the first virtual system with pictures, the longest-running forum post, etc. We ran a query for our 10 most active forum contributors and found out that each had made their first post between 9 and 18 years ago; we were impressed.
You are one of those users.
We can't thank you enough for the opinions, knowledge, assistance, and levity that you have brought to the forums over the course of the last decade-plus. The community is a better place because of you. As a token of our appreciation, we want to give you a free Audiogon Insider subscription for life.
AudiogonInsider™ is a new premier membership subscription that offers unlimited Bluebook access, No Site Ads, Exclusive Offers/Discounts, and—what may be of most interest to you—a private, less-moderated Insider Forum. We hope you end up bringing the same fervor and engagement there that you do to our public Forum.
To redeem your free Insider™ membership: Click Subcribe Now below, choose the Annual Plan, and then use coupon code TOPPOSTER before October 31, 2018 at 11:59 EST. While you may unsubscribe at any time for any reason, this coupon is for perpetuity. For as long as you want to be an AudiogonInsider™ it will be free for you. Thank you for your long-time support.
Dear @bima : Looking to your posts and that "BS " word I think I was not that person because I don't use that word. That word was patented in USA but it's like to say: " hi friend " because no one cares about but if you use ignorant every body in USA feel insulted. Such is life. Each country in the world has its " own language ".
I remember that you gave me and answer in one thread about that I posted that MUSIC at a live event at near field position is not sweet and warm and the key word in my statement is: " near field " , that means 1-2m from the source.
Dear @halcro : I can't understand why you post only a minimum fact/part of something posted to justify your attitude.
First that remark ( tiny part. ) of what I posted to you was after your first attack ( with no reasons. ) direct to me. Here it's your post that even was one day before my answer to it:
This is primarily for Cardani but please....I would appreciate everyone's feedback 🤗 Particularly if Frogman is still 'lurking'...although I'll post some comparisons on the 'Hear My Cartridges' Thread.
At Cardani's suggestion, I purchased a Zoom Q2n recorder to attempt a better quality capture than is possible with the iPhone.
And as Cardani is a classically-trained double-bass musician....his analysis of the Gary Karr 'Albinoni' should be illuminating. I'm sure not a fan of the video quality though....😱
Raul, You don't seem to remember this part of a Post of yours dated 03-16-2019......?
But with that mediocre system is extremely difficult you can learn. You need a true reference room/system. In other threads you and me already had several dialogues about with facts why is a mediocre system. Starting with your room, followed by the subs room position and that non reference phonolinepreamp.
I think that qualifies as YOU starting the fight? It was then, I offered you the chance to prove that your 'reference' system was better than my "mediocre" system.....
Btw, here some gentlemans that bougth to me through WU:
"""
Jue 06/04/2017 07:58 PMMichael
Raul,I will send the money, WU, in a couple days. Gracias,Michael
Sorry, the date was 5 and I was thinking today. No problem, cartridges are yours. """"
that gentleman lives in Hawai.
"""
George Jue 13/04/2017 12:16 AMUsted
Thanks Raul. Got a text from WU that you had collected the money…maybe the $ 74 fee charged by WU must be for the text notification !!!!!
On another note – how does the ADCAstrion compare with the TRX series ie. TRX2 or 3 ? Just curious….thanks…keep well…regards…George """
this from New Zeland. George bougth from me 4-5 cartridges in different ocassions, the ones I remember: Spectral, Astrion, Dimension 5 and something else.
Other gentleman bougth by WU from India but in USA too in Denver. By coincidence two gentleamsn in the Denver area.
as you can read your " tone " of that conversation between you and me was way way different.
What maked that you started your " figth " this time when in that time I gave you even " thank's " to brougth here that JVC 4MD cartridge that I own for years and never mounted till your post that gave me the opportunity to listen it?
Anyway and looking to " calm " our differences and hopping that you don't react like the other one that followed trying to hit me with out success I will explain about Japanese Stereo great and only source in USA of Japanese top audio items in those vintage times:
first than all was not at North Rodeo Drive, I only remember that " North ". His rigth addresses was 930 North La Cienega Boulevard in LA.
In those times even in USA almost no one used emails to make audio business at least not Japanese Stereo and obviously no PP either.
All interchange of information/communication was doing trhough letter yes air mail write information. Was here where I bougth my 66 and no I don't paid nothing closer to 6K but a lot lot lower price.
JS had so lowly prices that today is just " incredible ". I have on my hand its price list ( only for a few items. ) and here are listed the Technics EPC-P205 MK4 in 125.00 and the EPC-100C MK4 in 285.00 ! ! !
SAECs, Koetsu, Dynavector, Goldbug, Accuphase,Denon, Yamaha, the top Micro Seiki TT/tonearm, Highphonic, Audiocraft, and the like all at " ridiculous prices " for today standards.
Unfortunatelly In those times I had not any interest in MM/MI cartridge and was at JS where I bougth tonearms, LOMC cartridges, accesories and many more audio items. My highphonic cartridges came from JS.
Yes now defunct. I still have his phone number area code 213 and I dialed yesterday and of course does not exist any more.
The LA office was a branch of the " corporate " main office in Tokyo but the employees were not japanese people but USA citizen. Dorothy Gatlin was the lady with whom I made all my " business " there.
Dear @travbrow : Better with out that cable because you can have or buy a lot better today cable. The tonearm connector is trough universal DIN PIN-5, so no problem at all.
Dear @pryso : Thank's. Now please tell me how do you name a person that has a severe incapacity to understand " things " ?
No, ignorant is not the word because an ignorant person ( ignorant in a specific issue. ) always can learn, has the capacity to learn.
This man has not that learning capacity and I posted several facts that proved and still follows posting " more of the same " because has no facts to achieve success trying to make me a damage. I know his full frustration every time he intented but that frustration level goes higher every time he fails and fails always.
"""
even between him and the well known retipper whom he left with unpaid bills. """
that he posted today.
Well in this thread this 2019 he was participating and in an answer from me to travbow I gave an explanation about . That explanation ( that in reality did not has to exist. ) is thank's to a true stupid person who in the past posted information with out had the complete information/version but only one part of it:
"""
The second batch, he wouldn’t even answer several emails within the first year. I gave up and thought he might of passed away or they got lost and he wouldn’t care to acknowledge the situation. Anyway, not near the expensive loss you experienced. """
Not only I losted those 6 cartridges ( over 6k. ) but the other cartridges he still have that are mine.
@pryso , it's not that I'm irespectofully but some one that can't learn ( as I said is not ignorant. ) is just stupid. Why posted again on that? which is the word that people uses in USA when exist incapacity to learn or in other countries? Could you share with me and then I can use that word?
One and again over different topics posting the same even that facts say he is wrong one and again because his past posts confirm he is wrong and I mean in other threads. His history is always the same trying to hit me. Boring.
Raul, I’ll keep a look out for Audio Technica AT-1100. Unfortunately the Japanese seller doesn’t include the cable and doesn’t negotiate his pricing. There’s one on eBay Australia in excellent condition, but this guy won’t ship to USA.
If anyone here has major issues with Raul then why are you reading and replying to this site?
He doesn’t own this site or this thread. Most of the comments from people who has some problems dealing with him carefully deleted by the moderators, not all of them, but many of them. He is an "Audiogon Insides" as you can see the new yellow icon near his name here. He paid for it. He insulting people and then deleting their reply with a help of moderator. This is the reason why so many people that i know left this forum, they don’t want to battle with him and they don’t need so much anger coming from him.
There are an exceptions, of course he can’t be 100% negative to all of the members.
An exception is a few people that he has met in real life and a few other members on here, but the majority of people are "ignorant" in his opinion and he’s not hesitate to tell it right here almost in every post. Read what he said to me many times.
Do you see that or it doesn’t matter to you if it’s not related to your name? This is a difference in mentality between people in different countries. We’re all from different countries.
I believe a Japanese could die if anyone will tell them what the Mexican can tell to 99% of us on public forum.
In my country a person can get a solid punch right in his face if he will call anyone "ignorant or stupid".
Most likely I should stand aside and try to ignore these recent comments and counter-comments, but I don't understand why they continue. If anyone here has major issues with Raul then why are you reading and replying to this site? If you have questions or comments relating to specific MM cartridges why not start a separate post?
I've been reading, and occasionally commenting on, this post for years. In fact I met Raul in person years ago when he toured the US demoing his (then new) preamp. Neither as a follow up to my comments or in person did he ever approach me to sell anything. Not even his preamp as he simply explained a little about the design, then let it speak for itself in a demo -- overall it was very low-keyed.
I defended Raul here once before, suggesting there might be misunderstandings relating to English not being his primary language. But more recently I'm less sure of that. I do agree that some of his comments can be pretty off-putting if not belittling. But some of the replies to him are pretty aggressive as well.
I'll likely continue to follow this post because there are bits of information I find informative and possibly helpful to my own musical enjoyment. But there is enough discord in the world today that I wish I didn't find so much of it here.
Dear @travbrow : The Audiocraft is an unipivot design, are very good looking tonearms but for your budget there are non-unipivot tonearms that are way better than AC and way better for your MM cartridge.
You have the Audio Technica 1100, Signet ( part of the AT group. ) clone XK-50. Both are really good performers.
Other than those you can look for the Lustre GST-801 or something that you already know the EPA 100 from Technics.
Btw, never use any cartridge with the Empire type stylus guard in place, always take out. It really damages the quality cartridge performance levels.
@dimitry , Ignore the Mexican if you can...... His behaviour is symptomatic of a mental condition (which you've summarised quite succinctly).
He has a habit of demanding 'proof' and 'evidence' (when HIS idea of 'proof' seems to be the 'opinions' of other audiophiles who he happens to agree with or vice-versa).....yet when a university trained aerospace engineer provides a cogent explanation of 'damping' for tonearms....his reaction is to dismiss it because it fails to align with HIS theory of 'damping'.
Ask Chakster about cartridges, tonearms and turntables and you'll receive advice that is personal (as most advice is)....but generally reliable IME 🧐
I would rather start some new thread about my new discoveries in MM/MI/MC instead of posting here
There's so much valuable information here Chak......spanning 11 years. We don't have to throw the 'baby' out with the 'bathwater'. The Mexican is irrelevant to you and also to me. I rarely read his Posts (hard to understand) anyway. There are many fine contributors still left here (although a majority of the really good ones have long left) and we can ignore the Kraken (although it's such fun to bait him 🤣).
Your journey into the MM/MI world has been rapid and involving and I find your philosophies and recommendations particularly enlightening. I've just received the NOS Grace Level II from Japan Yahoo and without giving anything away......your 'ears' and discernment are far more in line with my tastes and 'hearing' than those of the OP. When I receive the NOS Glanz MFG-610LX, it will make the third cartridge I have bought on your recommendation...🤗
Raul, I plan to keep the stylus I bought from you. If you didn’t inspect it assuming since it was NOS there wouldn’t be any issues, I understand. I’ll use it either without the guard or install the guard off my old stylus.
Another tonearm question, is an Audiocraft AC3000MC with the straight and s shaped tube options a good choice? I’m thinking of buying a good vintage tonearm that isn’t over $1000.00.
Instead of private emails that you guys are posting here for some reason i can only clarify something about regular posts on audiogon with disinformation regarding PayPal, because i am a PayPal user and i know very well how it works. This is American company, the difference outside USA is only the amount of their service fee which is vary from country to country.
I can also confirm how rude is the OP in many of his posts, many english speaking people from time to time told him to learn english a bit, before using some rude english words in public towards any member of the community.
I can admit that a honest seller or audiophile does not sell broken or damaged cartridges. This is a long thread and i just don’t want to act like you do, i don’t want to seach for very bad feedbacks posted right in this thread long time ago (i saw this when i’ve been reading this thread from beginning till the end few years ago), there are many bad stories between the OP and many other members (most of them left this forum years ago) and even between him and the well known retipper whom he left with unpaid bills.
So yes, i doubt he’s a honest audiophile, my opinion based on other people experience with him, my own experience and his behavior on public forum.
He gets what he deserved after all. As i can see he has no arguments, just some dirtry tricks.
This thread is going to its end, i hope. The OP is now with his Digital and LOMC anyway, so it makes no sense to post here in this thread, his opinion is not relevant anyway.
I would rather start some new thread about my new discoveries in MM/MI/MC instead of posting here where some people wash their ditry laundry in public. I can only imagine how many things still untold, because many of us don’t want to make it public.
Dear @frogman : Understand it but all Agon posts has no " boss " but Agon only and you, me or any one can use it and about post private emails that person force me to do it and he did it not one or twice times with his no reason attacks to me.
Didd you read it his started attack post and the ones that followed and the time I took before made public that email? Maybe you have more patience than me but I'm not sure what you will do if I directly try to crushed you through several in a row posts in the same thread ! !
This is not about only of patience but human been dignity and I deffend it. The other person not only attack me but put in doubt my honesty and I think that even you can´t tolerate if some one attack you directly in that way.
I always respect to you but I disagree with your post for the reasons I explain here.
Frogman please take my " place " and then think about what those both persons are doing even I try to " close " the differences in between with chac and you read his response.
I'm not saying that I'm rigth but they look for not me. I never started to name Halcro or Chakster in the last 6 pages till both attack me.
Sorry to disturb you but everything has its limits and here both of them cross the line with any single word ( from my part. ) against them before their attack: understand that? I know you do and I can see you don't care about human been dignity limits. Of course that those persons not even know what means human dignity but I'm sure you know it perfectly.
Dear travbrow: that stylus replacement never mounted and as I said came with two original Empire boxes. As I told you I have other used stylus replacements for the same Empire model and rigth now just checked all them and thak's to you I learned that yes exist two different original stylus replacements main difference shorter cantilever. From checking these stylus replacements only one stays a top for playing with the cartridge and in the others the stylus guard comes/falls down and no one of them including the one that came with the cartridge is perfectly centered.
Btw, the only Empire cartridge model that I use with the stylus guard in place is with the D3 because is extremely dificult to take out and fortunatelly its stylus guard comes with out any sign of loose, even I have to put some " force " to up/down it. So vibrations are lower that with the 1000.
I have no doubt that that stylus replacement performs in good shape because all the used replacements I own and that its cantilwever is not perfectly centered performs very well.
What I want to test is the one with the shorter cantilever that I never been aware of its differentlength/size but will has to wait due that the D3 is running really good and better than my 1000.
What I was unaware till today is that exist a third D3 model and is the D3 LAC. Same stylus shape than the top 600LAC and the top EDR.9.
No, the D3 LAC is not a better design cartridge than the original D3 that still is the top one of that Empire line.
Raul, I would greatly appreciate it if you would not use my posts in the context of one of your quarrels with another poster and that I have no role in. It is self serving and, frankly, disrespectful. One shouldn’t have to explain the obvious, but apparently it is not to someone who feels it is ok to post others’ private emails in a public forum.
So the way it works, is when a new person comes on the forum, Raul, you praise their system and offer them attention, so they are pleased that the "guru" has bestowed his approval.
Then you reach out to them privately, offering cartridges and things for sale, that are "approved" by you to be excellent and state of the art. It turns out that their system is not good at all, you never said that it was, but you can certainly help them to make it better.
Clearly, the idea is to cultivate a "captive" sales audience that are impressed by your knowledge, pleased by your attention and happy to buy things from you.
Yes, he was kind until i refused to buy a cartridges from him, he does not offered them to me, it was me who asked for one specific rare model, before we even start to talk about the price i realized he's trying avoid paypal. I refused his way of payment from the start, then he said he could accept paypal, but the price for the cartridge was higher than my expectation, i made my best offer, but it was refused by him. So nevermind, this is not a problem at all.
The problem is how our "guru" insulting people on public forum.
@travbrow
Raul it isn’t a little loose it’s broken loose. The cantilever isn’t that bad, but its slanted. I always check things before I sell and ship them and these issues could of been easily identified and explained to the potential buyer. I don’t know how the guard could of get damaged unless it was previously used or removed.
As for the cartridges many people pointed him on mistakes and disinformation, we can all made a mistake, but if it's too often it looks suspicious, especially when it comes to sales.
When i'm buyin something i want to look at the high resolution pictures of the cartridge, cantilever, box, manual, everything. I will do the same for anyone if i wish to sell a cartridge, i just don't need misunderstanding. I'm pretty sure if one audiophile selling a cartridge to another audiophile everything must be destribed as it is (very accurate). I don't believe that defective cartridge or damaged stylus can be sold as NOS from any audiogon contributors except him. And people still trust him for some reason?
This is not your case, but: We have noticed many years ago that most of his cartridges are refurbished, retipped. I wouldn't buy any refurbished cartridge from anybody, because you never know what it is and how it sound compared to the OG. He is the only person who always claimed the refurbished is better than the original, this is "upgrade" or in his own terminology a "refresh".
In my opinion this is only a compromise how to get a broken cartridge back to work (to sell it in case with the OP). A compromise is not the best solution.
But the original top of the line MM/MI cartridges are always better than any refurbished MM/MI carts. Defective original carts must be avoided as much as the refurbished cartridges.
Based on some feedbacks i assume that the OP does not have a perfect cartridges, because people complain about his units from time to time. Selling some trash from his vaults is a common practice, he can't even grade his cartridge accurate before he sell them (he can't even take a picture).
chakster, from where I sit, you and raul have one thing in common; neither of you is happy when someone else doesn’t love what you love.
Can’t remember that i have called anyone "ignorant or stupid" anytime when someone is disagree with me. Do you feel the difference?
I can only provide facts, technical data and some nice visual for any cartridge i’m talking about. This is contribution and share of knowledge. I’m learning too and i don’t pretend to be a "guru" like the Mexican.
I think he need an "advocate" and you’re very well acting this role on this forum nowadays. That’s not bad, go on.
I can only see a disinformation in his recent posts, because PayPay payment is not automatically withdraw to bank account as he said! Any incoming PayPal payment appeared on the balance in PayPal system and then a person can do whatever (withdraw to account or leave them on the PP balance to use for his own payments in the future). There are many different settings on paypal that user can change by himself anytime.
Sellers who tell their customers that they have to wait until the money will be withdrawn from PayPal to seller’s bank account are doing it to secure themself (only), because when a buyer is not happy about condition of the item PayPal will take action according to Buyer’s Protection and seller’s account can be frozen with all the money on the balance, even if there is no money PayPal will take action and there will be negative balance on the seller’s account, but they buyer will get his full refund anyway!
AND FOR EVERYONE:
My advice: Always pay with PayPal and ask for invoice from the seller, if anything goes wrong just open claim on paypal and ask for full refund, return the item and ask for return shipping compensation from PayPal. Do not let anyone fool you! If you can’t negotiate with the seller PayPal will always take your side!
Don’t let the Mexican (or anyone else) to tell you all that fairy tales about PayPal. Most likely the seller is a cheater if he can’t use paypal, because for the buyer this is the ONLY safe method of payment (return and full refun guaranteed).
The rest is just bla-bla-bla from the OP I hope he did not asked you to send cash in the envelope by mail ? We can remember some other crazy payment methods like Mony Order?
Some people are too oldschool for a modern safety way of quick online payments.
PayPal might be an evil for dishonest sellers, but for the buyer this is the best ever!
Maybe we don't need paypal if the seller and buyer are friends.
It’s almost impossible to read any posts by Raul who can’t even use a "QUOTE" BUTTON when he’s trying to use a quote in this response.
Instead he’s putting together many paragraphs taken from the different threads in different content trying to prove something, but it’s impossible to read. However, taking a brief check i can’t find anything wrong in my words.
Next time when you use my quote in your post just select it and click first button from the left under your audiogon window (see below):
And a quote will be like that, understand ?
As i said it was very interesting to read this thread years ago when the information from the OP was valid, but it’s not valid anymore, i’m sorry, i will ignore it as i have no intention to fight. The OP already insulted many people on audiogon and continue to do that. People are not happy even about his recent private sales, i have nothing to add.
I already explained everything a few posts before.
As for the cartridges i have/had nearly all of them on hands (including the rarest models) and i prefer my own experience than somebody else experience.
I’m 42 and the fact that (for example) 60 year old person have tried some cartridges long time ago does not prove anything to me, i have my fresh experience in today’s system. When anyone is talking about experience from the 90’s or from the 80’s i want to remind to that person that such information is not valid in 2019 (because of the faulty memories and because of the new discoveries).
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