Dear Lewm/Dgarretson: Now that I re-read the former Dgarretson question I can say that I understand it in wrong way.
No, my 1000ZE/X has a round receptacle to take the round male of the stylus body.
Lewm, the Turntable Needles has a price that is almost the double of the price with Needle Depot, both original replacement.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Thanks for reminding me about that vendor, Raul. I ordered mine from Garage a Records (2 days ago) and evidently got one of their last NOS ones at their low price. When I wrote my post above, I had forgotten about Needle Depot as another source for the stylus at a reasonable price. Considering what happened when I hesitated at the opportunity to purchase the NOS Technics EPC100C, perhaps I need two 1000ZE/X stylus assemblies, to last me up to Valhalla.
I found out that my slight dissatisfaction with the Azden P50VL may have been due to misaligning it in my DV505 tonearm. (The story is too boring to relate here, but it has to do with incompatibility between my protractor and the DV505 tonearm.) I fixed the problem last night, and everything got better. Also, I may have mentioned this before, but I continue to be blown away by the Kenwood L07D turntable. (Well, it's vintage, like the cartridges we are talking about.) |
Lew, the twists & turns of analog set-up never cease to vex & amaze. After a year of feeling pretty smart about shortening the length of my linear air arm to 2", I only recently grasped that the extreme VTA setting optimal for cartridges like Empire requires a significant readjustment of arm length to restore correct zenith.
The Empire 999 is breaking in nicely and definitely wants at least 100K loading to open up HF. LF is much more precise than Empire 888. |
BTW perhaps owing to the spring steel clip mount, the Empire body is quite microphonic and reactive to taps to the headshell. After break-in is finished this one will get the AVM paint treatment. |
will my signet tk7e cartridge work w/a signet shibata stylus or must i replace only w/an elliptical stylus? also, i have an ortofon vms 20e cartridge. would this be a quality cartridge worth replacing the signet with? i have some new shure M91ed cartridges, are these valued at all by today's quality standards? i know the ortofon blew them away w/its detail & openess compared to my shures when i first tried it. i went to the signet when i did after frustrations of trying out many moving coil cartridges back then. the mc's had difficulty tracking & were noisy during quiet passages. the mc's were the 1812 canonshots/dynamics, the signet overall more musical. also i'm interested in any places selling NOS cartridges. TY everyone, birdman (new to audiogon) |
Dave, So don't tap the headshell. What's the full name and source of that anti-resonant paint, again. I seem to have lost the reference. Thx. |
Lew, I got mine from Norm as referenced toward the bottom of this URL.
http://www.antivibrationmagic.ca/index.php?page=about |
Dear Kingmacaw: The original NOS Signet stylus replacement are not expensive but not cheap so maybe before yo make that " play " could be better try your VMS 20 ( I own the 30 ). In both cases ( Signet/Ortofon ) is important that you take care on a precise cartridge set up_ overhang, VTF, VTA/SRA, clean cartridge pin connectors, clean stylus cartridge, Azymuth and the like.
In this link you can find NOS MM/MI cartridge sources:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1269789846&openflup&5&4#5
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Halcro
Do you have the Empire 1000ZE arse up?
Sounds like I need to move my Empire 1080LT to the P3 and compare against the Technics EPC100CmkIV
Raul, ever heard the EMPIRE 1000 SE/X ? |
Dear Downunder: Yes and I'm doing it now. Please read what I just posted about:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1200430667&openflup&1980&4#1980
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Raul
you compared the 1000ZE, not the 1080LT.
Raul, have you ever heard the EMPIRE 1000 SE/X ? |
Hi Downunder, I've found the Empire 1000ZE/X sounds best in my system with 'arse' up....although only slightly. Nothing like the Garrott P77 or Ortofon M20FL. Also loading makes a huge difference and 60K Ohms (the max I can give it), sounds just great. I also give it min capacitance like Raul.
How is your Technics EPC100C? I've been waiting anxiously to hear if you agree with Raul on this one? |
Dear Downunder: 1000 SE/x?, I'm unaware this cartridge exist till you ask about. Where can I find/read about it?
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Downunder are you referring to the SE/X stylus that was in the same lineup as the ZE/X? If so the basic specs are in the 1000ZE/X owners manual that is available for download at Vinyl Engine....
Jim |
Now that I have cleared up a problem aligning cartridges in my Dynavector tonearm, I need to return to all the MM/MIs I have thus far evaluated in it, because all of them were negatively affected by my previous method of alignment. (I used a Baerwald protractor; the DV505 is built for Stevenson geometry. Therefore, I was twisting the cartridges in the headshell to make the alignment conform to Baerwald. In the DV tonearms, because of the short, vertically pivoted arm, twisting the cartridge results in generation of distortions and a decided R channel imbalance, I finally figured out, even though the "geometry" per se was correct for Baerwald. I obtained a Stevenson protractor yesterday thanks to Vinyl Engine.)
I started to re-evaluate the Azden after making this correction in alignment. The sound is much more relaxed, and the decided R channel bias is cured. Soundstage and imaging are better, too. Now I need to know how you guys are setting it up to get that "9" rating. I am guessing 100K load, positive VTA. Question is how positive is the VTA, compared to the Ortofon M20FL which seems to benefit from a lot of positive VTA, and what VTF? I dialed in about 1.3gm last night, and VTA is just barely positive, nearly neutral (level). Right now the loading is 47K ohms; is there significant improvement at 100K ohms? Thanks. |
Dear friends: for those that are still interested on Pickering/Stanton cartridges this one seems a good opportunity:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pickering-XSV3000-Cartridge-Stylus_W0QQitemZ130382224827QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1e5b62ddbb#ht_500wt_1182
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
So, based on Lew's discovery of the alignment mis-match with his DV arm, I'm wondering if there is a simple way to identify the alignment utilized in the design for any given arm? Could it be something as simple as observing if the cartridge requires more than slight offset relative to the headshell?
I would think this may not be a problem for most common pivoted arms but would appreciate comments by anyone with a better grasp of design engineering.
Thanks if you can offer enlightenment. |
Hi Halcro
Do I ever agree with Raul? :-)
In all seriousness, with the Technics EPC-P100CMK4 I pretty much concur with Raul.
It is a wonderful cartridge and along with the Ortofon A90 the two best cartridges I own.
I was pretty lucky to get one of the last two NOS in existence. http://www.flickr.com/photos/13641350@N08/4439753573/
Now, Has anyone tried the Technics EPC P 540 or 550 from Thakker ? or going to - C'mon guys
Yes I know that it was only a mid range cartridge, but so have lots of the MM carts folks have been buying, trying and luving.
http://stores.shop.ebay.com.au/William-s-Stylus-Shop_Technics-Cartridges_W0QQ_fsubZ1293365012QQ_sidZ190774482QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322
cheers |
Lewm
It seems that almost all of the Japanese tonearms use Stevenson alignment. My P3 / P10 certainly do.
I have had Yip at MintLP do up a Phantom & P3 Stevenson & Loef mirrored alignment tractor and they are fantastic as you can align to the cantilever every time. Makes a noticable difference
highly recommended
cheers |
Yep. Nearly all the vintage Japanese tonearms and/or turntables with dedicated tonearms do use the Stevenson geometry. However, I am not sure that using the Baerwald or Lofgren geometries with these tonearms will bring on the problems I experienced, just because of the unique design of the Dynavector tonearms. I had read an article on VE about the desireability of twisting the cartridge in the headshell, if that is needed for proper alignment, and I very smugly said to myself, "I knew that". That's what I've been doing all along with the DV505 (which I have owned for about a year and which is the test bench for these vintage cartridges), because the TTB protractor is Baerwald. But then I started thinking about what happens at the stylus tip when a twisted cartridge encounters a warp or just tries to track a complex musical passage. When stylus and cantilever are at an angle to the vertical pivot, there are new forces generated that are not in the vertical plane. This could screw up the reading function of the cartridge. Indeed, I had been tolerating this problem of channel imbalance, and once in a while on some LPs I was hearing some odd distortions that were not present when I played the same LPs with an MC cartridge mounted in my Triplanar (i.e., Baerwald to Baerwald). These phenomena occurred with all 3 MM/MI cartridges that I have thus far auditioned, so it could not have been due to a cartridge defect. I then glommed on to the concept that when I twist the cartridge, I am also increasing the offset angle which gives more skating force which could account for the R channel dominance (and in retrospect, that's where I heard the distortion). If I had not read the article on VE, I might never have made the connection. I contacted the author, and he agreed that "twisting" is not a good idea for the Dynavector, because of that short arm tube in the vertical plane. With a "normal" pivoted tonearm, the nasty forces would be less and probably less noticeable. Paradoxically, in his article he was recommending the "twist" (only if your protractor and your tonearm are designed for dissimilar geometries, of course), because it reduces tracing distortion.
The built-on tonearm of the Kenwood L07D must also be Stevenson type. You can get a clue about the geometry from the offset angle of your headshell. I believe this is discussed in the very same article on VE about twisting the cartridge. The Stevenson geometry requires the least headshell offset angle, I think. I was thinking of having MintLP make me one protractor each for the DV505 and for the Kenwood, but the free Stevenson protractor on VE seems to work fine for now. I printed out a 1:1 image and laminated it myself between two thin pieces of flexible plastic. And here I am a person who tries not to be anal about cartridge alignment.
So will some of you guys tell me how you are running the Azden to wring out its best performance? VTA, VTF, load resistance? |
Dear Lewm: The Stevenson against B/L needs not only a change on the overhang but on the offset angle like you point out and like you point out ( I agree ) a B/L geometry cartridge set up we can do it even if the tonearm was designed for Stevenson geometry. So always is open to what we decide about.
Does not exist a perfect geometry pivot tonearm/cartridge set up any option we take ( B/L/S/P ) has its own trade-offs. Some permit lower inner grooves distortions/tracking error with a little higher distortions/error in the other parts of the LP/recording some others are better outside than at inner grooves: trade-offs, nothing is perfect in a pivot tonearm. Which is better?, IMHO no one only different and each one of us choose which/what one likes.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
But the point of my long-winded post was that in this particular case, where a tonearm designed for Stevenson geometry was set up with a protractor designed for Baerwald, I had to twist the cartridge in the headshell in order to make it line up with the grid on the Baerwald protractor. I thought this was the correct thing to do. In the particular case of the DV505, it was not. In fact, in any situation where there is a significant deviation between the headshell offset angle for one geometry vs the other, the end user has to twist the cartridge (clockwise or anti-clockwise when viewed from above) so it does not align with the long axis of the headshell. I certainly was not trying to imply that the Stevenson geometry by itself was superior to any other. In fact, this is the very kind of controversy I seek to avoid in my desire not to be anal about cartridge alignment. But I guess you knew what I meant. Just to be careful about this factor. It's probably best to use a protractor designed for your particular tonearm, which is the point that MintLP and many others are trying to make. I was actually behind the learning curve, I now know. |
Hi Downunder,
So between the Stevenson and Loefgren alignemnet protractors, which do you orefer for your P3 and the Phantom. I had Yip make me a Stevenson and a Bearwald for my Micro Seiki Max282 but have not had a chance yet to try and determine the difference. BTW your Flickr link does not work. Also on my EPC-P100CmkIV cartridge, there is a hairline crack on the plastic top edge and front of the stylus mounting body. It starts on one edge but stops as it gets to the screw holding the stylus moutning piece to the body. I don't think it would affect the sonics but wondering if you see the same on your unit. I guess you scored the better of the last 2 of these beauties. |
Dear Halcro: Reading on your Empire 1000 ZE/X post I take: ++++ " How can 'it' be right and everything else be wrong? It is like an epiphany. When you hear it you simply know. There is no room for doubt. " +++++
this is something that I experienced with 3-4 different cartridges and that was dificult to me to explain through my posts because how to explain something that you don't/can't hear it yet in your system and that you understand it in the way I'm hearing?
I think that many of us, one way or the other, already had this kind of audio experience. My main point here is that this kind of experience ( in my case ) is more repetitive with this MM/MI analog source that with any other audio link ever. I can't remember when this happen(ed) with me on LOMC cartridges. This kind of experience has to be consisten over time. Why I say this?, because many times in the short " time " we can think that the " new " experience is that one but over time this can change to a more normal cartridge/audio item behavior/performance.
IMHO it is not ease to discern when you have that " different " audio item """ When you hear it you simply know """". But IMHO when your experiences, music/audio know how and audio system resolution are rigth on target then you know it and """" There is no room for doubt. """""
Btw, one characteristic that many of us already discern on the MM/MI analog source against the LOMC analog source is that the LOMC one ( some way or the other ) has a touch of " mechanic/analitical/non-natural " performance where the MM/MI is the other way around. This IMHO is due that the MM/MI performance has lower inherent distortions or at least the kind of distortions are less agressive to our mind/brain and this sole characteristi makes a " diffrence " for the better.
The Empire 1000 ZE/x is a case on subject: for more than 10-15 hours of playing I was hearing the cartridge around 3db up to what is my normal everyday system hearing. I was unaware of this because the cartridge so low distortions ( one of the lowest cartridge distortion-free ones. ), then I return to my normal SPL.
This is a great cartridge and I understand every word in your post where you explain the cartridge performance experience. Good that you are happy about!
I just mount my Audio Technica ATML 180-OCC and I will report sooner about. All I can say this time is that if you find it just buy it with out ask.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Halcro: +++++ " that it is easy to forget (in vinyl), the first link in the chain is the cartridge, and if ever I needed to be convinced of the hierarchy in Cartridge, Arm, Turntable, Phonostage, Preamp etc, I now know that Cartridge comes first. # +++++
I forgot to comment about in my last post.
I agree with you. Right from the very first time I came to Agon I support that in analog the main importance link is always the source: cartridge. In those times and even today there are many people that think and post in this forum a preference for a different audio system link: I respect all of them but IMHO all them are just wrong..I know that every single audio system is important but the trasducer source/cartridge and speaker/room are IMHO the most important and critical. For me the source is the " king " and all the other audio system links his " royal subordinate ".
No I don't want to open a controversial window about, there are several threads where we can read on the subject, but other opinions are welcome.
The other important subject in your Empire post is:
+++++ " I suggested that 'great-sounding' records were perhaps not the only analysing tools we should be using and that 'Horror Discs' could provide some valuable insights into a system or component? " +++++
I can't be more alike with this post.
In the case of this Empire cartridge and in other few top MM/MI ones that " test " IMHO confirm that low very low distortion MM/MI characteristic where due to it we can enjoy almost any " Horror Discs ". The LOMC cartridges unfortunately are not a good example of it but the other way around due to its " unique " distortions that are so agressive and that only increase the each one recording self distortions and that in the " Horror discs " makes almost unlistenable not to say impossible to enjoy it.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Raul and Halcro, Some would say that the very excellence of these relatively inexpensive cartridges when inserted into your top quality tonearms on your top quality turntables proves the supremacy of the arm or the turntable in determining the quality of vinyl reproduction. It's a circular argument that could go on forever.
I quite agree with you both about "horror records". I have a couple of those that were out on my stack of LPs I am now playing, because I was thinking of discarding them completely. Without exception, I find that these sound at least tolerable with the Ortofon or the Azden, and in most cases the cartridge can bring out some good quality that was not at all evident with my high quality MC cartridges.
I would still like to know how you guys are running the Azden: VTA, VTF, load resistance. Perhaps no one else has an Azden in play. |
Lew, I preferred Azden around 1.2gm, level to slightly negative VTA, and 70-80K loading. |
Hi Driveman
I only have the Stevenson & Loef for my P10 & P3. With some cartridges the Stevenson had no alignment room at the back of the headshell, so Yip made me a Loef which gives you a couple more mm's to play with. I prefer the Stevenson as it seems a little cleaner, pure sounding. I think the Micro 282 has the same alignment specs to the P3/10 tonearms.
Re the Technics EPC-P100CMK4. Looking very close, there is a hairline crack in the same area, however mine does not extend to the top of the plastic and is only a few mm's at best long. My cantilever is slight to the left as you look from the front, but that is easily solved using the MintLP tractor by aligning to the cantilever, not cart body.
How do you like it? Mine is sounding great and is getting better and better. I have slowly been adjusting the tonearm damping in the P3, which makes a big different to the sound and getting it very close to just leaving it. BTW, yea, it does not seem to go to the actual photo. you will see in the middle of the page - Here's a link to the home page. just click on the home page and it seem to go to the beginning. You should be able to view any/all of my photo's there by just clicking. let me know if that works.
cheers |
Dear Raul and Lewm, This IMHO is due that the MM/MI performance has lower inherent distortions or at least the kind of distortions are less agressive to our mind/brain and this sole characteristi makes a " diffrence " for the better. I am now undeniably aware of the existence of these 'distortions' with MC cartridges compared to MM/MI but I don't know what they are? Surely if they are so audible, they must be measurable? And yet I have never seen or heard mention of these distortions by anyone anywhere except on this Forum? And if these clear source 'distortions' can't be scientifically verified by measurement or explanation, what hope is there for all the other distortions added throughout the reproduction chain? for more than 10-15 hours of playing I was hearing the cartridge around 3db up to what is my normal everyday system hearing. I was unaware of this because the cartridge so low distortions ( one of the lowest cartridge distortion-free ones. ), then I return to my normal SPL. This is another 'proof' of a great cartridge in my opinion, and can only be heard with those cartridges that 'eliminate' the distortions we have come to accept as 'normal' through the almost complete reliance on MC cartridges over the last 20 years. Isn't it wonderful to be 'encouraged' to turn up the volume by the absolute absence of 'distortion'? |
I guess there are two Lofgren alternatives (A and B), one of which is quite similar to Stevenson. So as Downunder says, that Lofgren would also "work" with vintage Japanese tonearms. (By "work", i mean you can align your cartridge with the grid on the protractor, and it will also be lined up with the long axis of the headshell.) |
Dave, To me "negative" VTA means that your tonearm pivot point is slightly lower with respect to the headshell. Do we agree on the jargon? Is this in your Trans-fi tonearm?
Halcro, Yes, my wife now regularly pops into the living room around midnight to give me that "do you know what time it is" look, because I am playing the music LOUD, and I love it. Her appearance usually means my listening session is over after "one more song".
IMO, the technology and the interest in measuring distortion from phono cartridges has not moved forward very much in 50 years. Plus we know we perceive distortions that have not been quantified or related in a linear way to common measurements of distortion. So one has to believe the instrument that resides between one's ears. |
Lewm,
"So one has to believe the instrument that resides between one's ears."
:~)
Spot on |
Lew, yes VTA with the tail of arm wand just slightly down in back on Trans-Fi. While the wand's pivot point is just 2" from the stylus, the 4" of wand protruding behind the pivot is the reference point for sighting purposes. Thinking about VTA with this arm is not too different than for a conventional pivot arm, except that the shorter wand has a wider range of adjustment. |
Dear Lewm: ++++++ " Some would say that the very excellence of these relatively inexpensive cartridges when inserted into your top quality tonearms on your top quality turntables proves the supremacy of the arm or the turntable in determining the quality of vinyl reproduction. It's a circular argument that could go on forever. " +++++
I'm a firm believer that the " quality "/grow up/better designs in cartridges, turntables and tonearms in the last 30+ years almost " grow up with out significative changes for the better and that's why many of us are using vintage turntables, tonearms and cartridges. You are a good example on this: Technics SP-10, Kenwood L070, Lenco, DV-505 and go on, I'm another example of that.
In the old times I begin in analog with MM/MI cartridges and change to LOMC ones not because it sounds better but because my ignorance and the AHEE that push so hard into LOMC myth.
Today where we really take advantage to start again the MM/MI alternative is with better electronic, speakers and cables that is where IMHO we really have changes for the better over the years.
The importance of the source/cartridge in the analog/system chain is a common sense subject. For me the source still is at the very front importance place in the audio chain, I respect but don't agree with other people that think different.
What makes this subject so complex is that that source needs a lot of audio links around for we can hear it and one way or the other all those audio links are very important too, are so important that the source quality performance depend on them but this can't means IMHO that some of all those audio links are more important than the source/cartridge.
Anyway, this is one favorite topic where we audiophiles like to argue about.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Halcro: The whole distortion subject is something where the AHEE ( Audio High End Establishment. ) almost never wants to argue. Why? I can't say but the subject is a critical and very important in the quality performance in any audio link and that contribute for the better or worst in the overall audio system quality performance.
We have a lot of examples where we are " fighting " and trying to lower distortions: matching tonearm/cartridge, TT platforms, subwoofers system integration, tonearm and cartridge set up: VTA/VTF/SRA/Azymuth/overhang, testing different cables, room treatment, speaker position, testing different kind of electronics, speaker/amplifier impedance matching, etc, etc.
Normally when we made system changes we are unaware but in our choose the distortions ( different kind ) are in strong way involve and are what " tell " us which " road " to take . There are different kind of distortions: IMD, THD, rumble, noise ( signal to noise ratio ), " colorations ", phase shift and many others. Some of them and depending on its level are more agressive to our very sensitive ears/brain and to our each one distortion tolerance and this is what makes so complex to identified specific distortions on specific audio problems we identified like distortions.
Normally what makes ( mainly ) that an amplifier goes in clipping situation is not only the high " volume " but the high distortions elsewhere in the amplifier processed audio signal, as lower the audio signal distortions as higher we can push the amplifier SPL response, almost the same that happen with a lower distortion cartridge.
Normally and where our ears are more sensitive is at the high frequency range and is here ( mainly ) where we can detect more easy those distortions.
What we hear at home I mean the SPL of what we are hearing through each one audio system is not only " music " but a high content of distortions. What happen when we change an audio link: cables, electronics, TT platform, room treatment or the like where we attain lower distortions?: that with out changing the preamp system volume what we heard/hear with this lower distortions item(s) change is lower SPL and we can/could feel we are loosing some kind of " life " in our system performance even we can think that now the system performance is on the " dull/dark " side. No the system does not loose " life " but loose/lowered distortions that in the past puts a false feeling of system " alive/life "/shine that was against the music against what is on the recording and against a full music enjoyment. After sometime ( around one hour ) hearing this new system experience step by step we are aware of this reality: that today we have better system quality performance with lower distortions and where we can take additional 3db-5db+ on the system volume hearing with out any sign of fatigue in our ears or any sign of additional aggressiveness in the audio system whole performance and we now enjoy better than ever our beloved LP's.
Every kind of distortions even the ones we can't hear I'm sure can measure and sooner or latter someone will do it. In the mid-time we can trust in our ears.
I can't say for sure if a LOMC cartridge is or has inherently/by design more distortions than a MM/MI cartridge but I can say for sure that more audio stages where the audio signal must pass on always add more distortions and the LOMC cartridge signal ( normally ) pass for additional gain stages that a MM/MI cartridge so here we can say that the LOMC cartridges comes with more distortions. The other side is that normally the MM/MI are better trackers than the LOMC ones and here too exist an additional distortion source.
I think there are many other factors around distortions and around MM/MI " lower " distortion performance against LOMC cartridges and I'm sure that you or any one else could share their experiences/know-how on the subject with us.
regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
I just mounted the M20fl super on my EPA 500 a501h wand this weekend using a Mint tractor specifically made for the EPA 500. I finally got the overhang and alignment right but it was complicated by the depth of the M20fl and the fact that it had to slide way back in the headshell to get the overhang right. This required longer headshell leads to allow enough slack(luckily Clearaudio's leads are 5mm). Is this because my Mint tractor is Stevenson? If I had Yip make a Loefgren would this put the cartridge forward by a couple mm as Downunder says? The M20fl sounded bright initially but with VTF adjustment and only around 10 hours of break-in it's already shaping up nicely. The next cartridge to set up is the M20e super on the a501e. Would I be better off spending $80 on longer headshell leads again or $90 on a Mint tractor with Loefgren geometry? |
Sonofjim, strange, M20FL and M20E is by no means bright. Very smooth sounding cartridge. Can you please align it as per Technics manual and report back here. |
I'll take a look at the manual but it's not sounding bright now. Initially, straight out of the box it did. I assumed it needed some warm-up/break-in and maybe a little more VTF. Both of those appear to be working. I just played it several more hours this morning and it sounded quite good, pretty well balanced. I'd hate to mess with it just now. |
Hi Sonofjim,I use the Technics EPA 500 tonearm and the Mint protractor also.The only cartridge that I tried so far that needed slid way back to align was my Azden.Mine is rewired with longer leads,the stock leads would not be long enough to mount the Azden.I never tried the Ortofon so can't say about that model.I thought Yip used the null points and overhang specified by Technics for the EPA 500. |
Thanks Travbrow, It's certainly starting to sound like it's well aligned. It just barely fits the headshell. It is pretty square and not twisted as some others have experienced. The cartridge is NOS so I'm guessing it just needs some playing time to settle in. I think I'll use the same tractor and get the longer leads again for the M20e. |
Thanks, Dave. Adjusting VTA to neutral gives an improvement in the sound of the Azden. The lower mids and mid-bass filled in quite nicely and edginess was ameliorated. Also the sound of a clapping audience became more "real". I don't quite have the guts to go to negative VTA just yet. In summary, aligning with Stevenson geometry appropriate to the DV505 plus neutral VTA sounds much better than Baerwald geometry with positive VTA. Next I will change the load resistance to 100K from 47K. I am currently comparing the Azden in the Lenco to my Koetsu Urushi in the Kenwood L07D. In the Kenwood, the Urushi sounds better than it ever did before and does compete with the Azden. However, bass detail with the Azden is superior, I believe at this point. Kenwood is special, I think. |
Hello. I've been reading this thread for some time, and even posted some time back. In response to the question whether anyone else is playing with the Azden, yes, I am. But my assessment is hardly as well developed as those of the principles here. I wish I could comment intelligently, but due to ongoing house remodeling, I am limited to listening in a secondary system in a room of less than desirable acoustics. Nonetheless, I think the Azden is brilliant. Seemed a bit bright initially, but it has calmed down considerably. Wonderful sound stage and very smooth, but with a great sense of immediacy and correct "speed." Before the Azden, I was using an Empire 1080LT, which was just as enjoyable, but a bit larger than life. On a tertiary (garage!) system, I currently have the Ortofon M20FL, another lovely cartridge, but it seems a bit polite in its current environment. I have no experience with the 1000ZEX or the legendary Technics - maybe some day. Egged on by this discussion, I've played with a number of other cartridges and have gotten excellent results with a Shure V-15 IV (with SAS replacement stylus which I like much better than the original,) an Astrion stylus on an XLM II body, the B&O MC20CL, the AKG P8ES (wish I could audition the Super Nova,) and a few others.
It's interesting how this thread has developed and where it has ended up. Now, it seems to be a nearly private discussion among 3 or 4 A-goners who are comparing notes of a few cartridges in their particular systems. Not bad, but less helpful overall than the initial thrust of discussion. Which leads me to a couple of comments, recapping what has certainly been said before:
1. I think that the synergy among components (especially cartridge-arm-table-phono stage) is far more important than any single component. There is no "best" cartridge - except perhaps within a specific environment of other components. Though some single components are clearly better than their peers, even those seemingly "best-in-class" (to steal a major airline's overused - and blatently false - catch-phrase) can sound miserable if poorly mated to other components. My personal experience with a Decca Super Gold VDH cartridge in an ET-2 arm is a clear example (and I am now certain that disastrous combination was due to severe mass-compliance mismatch issues.)
2. Some seem to be amazed that these cartridges-of-years- gone-by are as good as they are proving to be. In fact, I find it more surprising that these cartridges were "submerged" for so long and to such an extent that they are STILL available today - both occasionally "new" and on the used market. The CD-digital effect I guess - FINALLY wearing off. Most of the models that have garnered such praise in this thread date to near the end of the golden age of vinyl. Let's recall that until the mid to late 70s, MM cartridges were undisputed kings - not only because of production costs, but also because the MC model had been viewed as a dead end due to problems with noise from amplification of their feeble signals and high frequency resonance issues, as well as markedly inferior tracking abilities. MCs only got a second lease on life because of exotic construction materials and stylus profiles. MM manufacterers were relatively slow to adopt the same sort of new manufacturing techniques. Why should they when they were on top? Of course CDs changed everything - just as the MM makers were experimenting like the MC crowd had done for the previous 10+ years. Most of the MMs which this thread loves are products originating from the very end of burgeoning MM cartidge manufacture - at a time when the exotic construction techniques were just spilling over from MC to MM world.
Again not surprisingly, re-tips are now apparently a growth industry, as those who repair old cartridges make them BETTER than they were new - again using exotic cantilever materials and stylus shapes - if the basic motor is intact and properly functional. I imagine that if vinyl continues its resurgence, that we will again see great advances in the MM world, Right now, it looks like only Ortofon, Grado, and Audio Technica really care to bother with making quality MMS and advancing the art - and their latest offerings are undeniably superb. In the 80's there were dozens of fiercely competitive manufacturers - no wonder we have gems from that time.
3. Finally, as has also been mentioned before on this and many other threads and sites, it's the MUSIC which drives us. I am recurrently amazed at how wonderful analog sound can be when done properly. It's never quite the same as live (I went to the opera last weekend and sadly, my system is still a pale imitation of that experience of live, unamplified music.) But when everyting is just right, reproduced analog (OK, and sometimes even digital - don't hate me!) sound can be truly arresting and almost able to transport the listener to another state of reality.
That's what I think we're all looking for - the majic. |
Funflyer. Thanks for your input. I agree with you that the thread has become a little too focused on minutiae, and perhaps I am a major culprit in that trend. Please know that I am totally aware of it. To some degree, I went ahead with my posts to keep the thread alive, because Raul seemed to go off on a tangent in his preoccupation with the Technics EPC100C, for which he started an entirely new thread, in fact. This is Raul's perfect right, but the rest of us were deprived of his weekly or monthly "discoveries", which were previously the life's blood of the thread. In fact, thanks to Raul, we have a huge backlog of cartridges to talk about in greater detail, not just the Azden P50VL. I wonder what happened to the AT20SS, the Astatic, the Grado Tribute, the B&Os, the AKG P8ES, etc? How do they compare to the Empire/Azden/Ortofon cartridges of more recent interest? The thread could go on forever with that much fodder. So if my recent posts were of little to no general interest, I apologize. But don't go away. Stay with us. I personally am still wrestling with the question of whether the best of these MM/MI cartridges are indeed competitive with the best of the MCs. Too bad that it is very expensive to buy exotic MCs with which to make comparisons. |
Dear friends: +++++ " http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgcart&1277130372&/Grado-XTZ " +++++
Recomemded!!!
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
I forgot to mention that this Grado is the close/nearest quality performance cartridge to the Grado Amber The Tribute that is a Grado current model and that cost 2.8K dollars! and a top quality performer.
That vintage Grado is very hard to find.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
I think "Amber" is the name of the Australian vendor who still apparently has some NOS Grado Tribute cartridges to sell. At least that is what I came up with after I did a search using your terminolgy, Raul.
My TLZ, which was the Grado top of the line prior to the XTZ, is due for a re-evaluation, now that I know how to align a cartridge in my DV505. Back when both cartridges were in production, I don't think there was thought to be much difference between TLZ and XTZ, and in fact the XTZ stylus will fit the TLZ body. |
Dear Lewm: It seems to me that Grado makes The Tribute expresely for Amber, like a current model.
About the XTZ ( top of the line ) and the next down step in the Z line the TLZ maybe you are right about how near is its performance each to other.
If that is true then this TLZ ( for the price ) is a must to go:
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgcart&1277073392&/Grado-TLZ
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Re the Amber Tribute, your theory makes sense. Please stop tempting me to buy that XTZ; I already have the TLZ, darnit. |
Dear friends: Those looking for a top Stanton cartridge here it is at low fair price:
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgcart&1277302260&/Stanton-881-mk-II-S
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |
Dear Funflyer: Well that the Azden performs so well in that secondary system tells a lot of things on the Azden " pedigree ". On the 1080T I don't have that " larger than life " cartridge performance characteristic you experienced, good cartridge too.
You have very good cartridge " arsenal ", I hope than in the future you can find an Astrion body is IMHO worth to have it its main cartridge characteristics differ a little over the XLM you own. Btw, the AKG Supernova is an AKG P25/35 MD with VdH stylus, I have both and preffer the non VdH model.
About how the thread " it has ended up " IMHO the thread was and is building by all of us and not by " 3-4 private discussions Agoner's ", now this is an open forum and an open thread where through the time we already had discussions on different topics and some times not mainly on cartridges. As I say a thread is a " building " by all of us ( inluding you ) contributions. The people decide by it self when post here but we can to push about or in what direction/topic could have to go the thread. I can give you an example, I posted 10 days ago trying to follow what Halcro and other persons opinion on cartridge distortion importance and till today no one of you cares about, I mean not that do not care but that don't post trying to share their experiences or trying to make a wide distortion subject discussion. Here it is the post:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1200430667&openflup&2036&4#2036
can you tell me why no one ( including Halcro ) makes/made a comment about?, btw that post is open to discuss.
In the other side, the thread is a long one and " energy " over time change.
Lewm point out that I even start a new thread about the Technics 100C but my target more that talk about the cartridge ( where exist a formal review. ) was to know how the people react/think on " the best " audio item figure/assertion.
Anyway, every person contribution on the thread always is welcome as a fact what IMHO we all need are those other people contributions that can enrich our each one know-how.
Regards and enjoy the music, Raul. |