I use the McIntosh MC-2100 to drive my Apogee Duetta
Signatures. Transformer coupling eliminates most amp
matching problems. They sound super with the McIntosh
"transformer" outputs. |
http://www.apogeespeakers.totalserve.co.uk/scintilla.htm
Though the thread is a bit old, this is geared towards Muralman.
Aragon Paaladium true specs(not their conservatively posted specs):
8 ohms: 150 watts in class A operation, 500 watts in Class AB(listed: 125 watts CLass A, 400 watts Class AB)
4 ohms:80 watts Class A operation, 850 watts in class AB(no rating given for class A, 600 watts given RMS for class AB)
2 ohms:45 watts Class A,1400 watts Class AB(listed rating for 1000 watts RMS)
1 ohm: 25 watts Class A, >1500 watts Class AB(no listed rating. But Palladiums are recommended to be on seperate 20amp circuits if driving loads 2ohms or lower regardless)
.5ohms:15 watts Class A, >1500 watts class AB(no listed rating)
Though Ive heard a few folks state that the amp doesnt fully "double down" its output rating as the impedance drops, Id like to point out that NO AMP can double down its true output, no matter what the mfg. claims. Alot of amps state that they can to some extent, but in reality its not physically possible.
Each Palladium is a true differential balanced monoblock. Each block features a 2000kVA Toroidal with 140,000uf capacitance, 24 output devices that are rated for a total of 2400 watts per side maximum.Heatsink mass is also very similiar to the x600's btw muralman, and is LESS than 10% in total mass surprisingly which is in line with all the other specs on the amp in reality. The 8008BB is basically half the ratings listed above, the 4004mkII is also very similiar with less output. All 3 can drive Scintillas with ease. And I know of a handfull of folks driving Apogee 1 ohm speakers with Aragon products(Along with some older Krell models too)as stated earlier. |
One last thing too, I have heard of and seen 4004 amps overheat due to their heatsink mass being substantially less(about 50% less) than the newer 8008/Palladium models. |
Ritteri, I own Scintillas, like I have said before. I bought the X600 as an assurance I could not only power the Scintilla, but as well squeeze out the last drop of ecstacy these speakers are capable of.
The Pass X600 has twice the size torroidal as the Palladium, more output devices, Hexfets, and more power storage capacitance too.
Mine is definitely bigger :)
Despite these great amp's muscle, they offer just what the Scinnies need and nothing more. I know there have been others getting by on Classe, Aragon, and Krell amps, but I am interested in ultimate performance, not can do. |
|
Symphonic Line
Krell
Old Threshold
possibly Acoustat |
Muralman: You are 100% correct. THe X600 Passlabs monoblocks do have 4000kVA toroidals. But unless these monoblocks are running on 230 volts, its useless. If the X600's are running on 110 household current, its not going to matter if its a 2000kVA,3000kVA or 4000kVA toroidal. For the x600's to run their very best and put out their best dynamics they neeed 230volts. The palladiums were designed to 100% maximise basic 110volt 20 amp lines and no more. As for capacitance, the x600's have 180,00uf per side, about 20% more, but again its needed, especially if your on the heavy juice. As for the biasing for class A, the Palladiums actually put out a bit more than the x600's in this configuration across the impedance range. Dont get me wrong, the x600's and x1000's are one of my favorite pairs of SS amps, but there is no denying how close both amp pairs are in terms of power and SQ in reality. I would give the x600's the edge for powering a pair of inefficient 1 ohm speakers, but thats a really small edge, especially if your on 110volt juice. |
I've moved on away and above all of the above amps. I am now powering my Scintilla with the Acoustic Reality eAR 2 MKII amp. This is a diminutive digital powered by the ICE module. |
How about amps such as Bryston 6B and 7b down to 1 ohm loads?
Threshold S/500?
McIntosh amps with Autoformers in general? Which are best?
We are thinking of powering Acoustat 2+2 and Martin Logan CLS speakers. |
I've changed again. I am using H2O monos to power my 1 ohm Scintillas. |
Just thought I'd chime in on this thread after I found it during a search. Regarding the Aragon's ability to drive a 1 ohm load and, more specifically Apogee speakers - I distinctly remember the letter which Mondial wrote to Stereophile after they tested the 8008ST and complained that it blew a fuse into 2 ohms (@ 700WPC). Mondial pointed out that a famous museum (Smithsonian I think) was using Palladium's to power some Apogee speakers that they had on display that presented the most difficult load known...I can only assume that these were Scintillas. |
Actually, they are Apogee Divas. They flanked Mozart's piano, giving voice to recordings made on that piano. It is just that the Scintilla gave all Apogees a bad name as amp eaters. This is not so. |
Spectron Musician 2s drove my Apogees like a champ. |
Parasound JC-1's. Look no further. |
Coming late to the party, I have to ask... what is so special about the Scintillas, or Apogees in general? From what I can gather they are:
rare,
expensive,
difficult to drive, thus making them more expensive,
require heat-producing amps, raising your home cooling cost, making them even more expensive,
etc.
No doubt they are great; I am not looking for a fight. But are they that good that they supercede any number of really great speakers out there with fewer strikes against them? Please help me understand what makes 'em tick, using comparos to other good speakers that they would beat for about the same total system price. |
If it were true Apogees are expensine, difficult to drive, and require heat-producing amps...etc. I could see your point. ;-) |
I myself wouldn't choose any Apogee speakers over today's better offerings, however back in the day I believe they were something to be reckoned with. Regardless, there are other speakers that require stability and current that the question is valid for. |
Apogee made many models, some were amp eaters with the Scintillas maybe at the head of that list.
Other models like my Duetta Signatures are not amp eaters at all and can be used even with tube amps. When my big amp went in for service I used a little Krell Kav-500 on the Duetta Sig's with fine results...the Kav-500 is not a power-house amp by any means...120 watts@8ohms.
As far as how good Apogees sound...Like any other speaker line they don't all sound the same so any one model may be more to a persons taste than another.
Dave |
I can truthfully say the the Apogee Divas were the finest speakers that I have ever heard. Another guy in the listening room did not agree. So it goes in the world of high-end audio. ;) |
