Which AV Receiver?

Get the Denon AVR-X2500H. Available for $399 with FREE shipping from eBay seller "wwstereo" of Hatfield, PA. List price is $799! Ten available!

World Wide Stereo is an authorized Denon dealer. Use the money saved to get a pair of smaller Klpsch to use in the rear!

The Denon 2500 has 7 channels @ 95 watts. Plenty of power!

Give this place a call. I’m sure they will be glad to help you out. BTW, they sell Klipsch!
https://www.crutchfield.com/shopsearch/home_av_receivers.html#&nvpair=FFCategory|[rank10400]Rece... %26 Amplifiers

Thanks.

Is it worth going for the new Denon AVR-X2600H. I’m UK based by the way. I can get this one for £499.

Is this powerful enough for my Klipsch towers? Or should I look at a higher end receiver?

Get the AVR-X2600H. Plenty of power! No problem with driving your Klipsch speakers! Spending more (2X, 3X, 4X...) will not get "better" sound! Like I’ve said get a smaller pair of Klipsch speakers for the rear. No need for a center speaker (will only degrade the sound). 

The rear speakers should also be Klipsch RP series!

Thanks for your advice roberjerman. 
I will leave the center speak and rears for now and set up the towers and sub with the X2600H.

When I’m ready I’ll do the rears instead of the center. Or is it worth adding both? And yes, will probably get RP series.

Out of curiosity, what will 2x, 3x, 4x get me on the AV receiver?

The guys in the Amp forum recommended an AV Receiver but I don’t know anything about AV Receivers.

Here's everything you need to know about AV receivers: they are crap! Pure, unadulterated, crap. Here's why.

In audio we always face this choice: quality, or quantity. Quality costs big money. Quantity, not so much. This applies to every single bit of it right down to the transformers, caps and resistors in the box. Every single one of which can either sound good (quality) or measure good (quantity). 

So into your receiver box for $399 they have to somehow stuff enough parts for seven channels- seven amps, seven power supplies, seven sets of terminals, plus a dac or processor and God only knows how many inputs. All crammed right in close to each other, in defiance of the fact every one of these things puts out noise that pollutes and ruins the sound of the others. No wonder AV receivers are such crap!

Not to mention, you go the AV receiver/Home Theater route, now you are stuck somehow buying four or five or seven or whatever number the marketers have cooked up this week speakers. So no wonder all the HT speakers sound like crap! They are all being made for and sold to people who care more about quantity than quality.

You can try all this, compare, and this more than anything else is what I recommend: go and listen. If you do then I can guarantee this is what you will find-

ANY two channel integrated amp you can find in your $300-1000 price range will blow away THE BEST AV receiver you can find at any price. Will not even be close. You will hear the difference immediately.

At that point then either you will say stuff it I don't need all those extra channels, they are only gonna force me to listen to crap, or you will say gosh yeah this sounds just mesmerizingly intoxicatingly better but I'd rather have seven channels of crap and a crappy sub to go with cuz won't all my friends and the noobs on the interweb forums be impressed?

Your call. Choose wisely. 

@millercarbon - dude, get off your soap box already!   The guy has a budget of $300-1000 and he wants to add a center channel eventually (which is critical for proper directional sound in movie viewing).  A push to 2-channel integrated is not going to give him what he needs (and yeah, I understand 2-channel integrated is going to sound better for stereo).

And, he listens to music. So stereo. And, he does have a low budget- which as I pointed out you get a lot more for your money buying stereo vs multichannel. Also the center channel is only "critical" for people sitting way off axis. Which as roberjerman also pointed out is not even necessary and will even degrade the sound. So he goes even further than me.

Soap box? Honestly auxinput I have to wonder if you even bothered to read my post. Was there one single FACT in it you are able to find fault with? Is one word of it factually untrue? Of course not.

The ONE recommendation I make that stands out loud and clear is not buy this or buy that, but GO AND LISTEN! In other words, here’s a lot of solid info NOW GO MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND!

Something you should understand. Having made up yours to the point you never even bother reading any more.

millercarbon thanks for your input and for tipping the scales the other way and getting me thinking. To be fair to auxinput he helped me setup at my parents place and convinced me to go the integrated preamp/DAC option over AV receiver for my Yamaha studio monitors which are being used for similar scenario as what I’m after now for my own house. 
You made a lot of sense with the quality vs quantity. I am definitely only concerned with quality. If I have to ditch rears and center than so be it. I already have the sub though. Having good sound for movies will benefit my wife and I but having quality sound for music is what I really want (personally). 
So taking into consideration my budget, are you able to recommend some preamp and amp models which I can look into that will bring out the absolute best of my speakers (for my budget)?
Over here in the U.K. where I am it’s difficult finding somewhere which stocks a lot of kit in store for me to listen to so would appreciate the recommendations here. 

Here is a Rotel A12 integrated amp with DAC. 120 wpc. £700 + shipping. Available from UK eBay seller "emlu17-4". Located in Halifax, W.Yorkshire. NEW IN BOX - never used! Silver finish!

Thanks roberjerman.

I am trying not to ask but I’ve just read about the A12 and I’m a little confused.

What does it mean by integrated?
Is there a preamp and DAC built into this amp?
Is 60 watts per channel enough power? Is this suitable to handle/power the RP-8000F towers at 8 ohms?

Are there any downsides to an integrated amp? Applying what millercarbon said above would suggest that there would be reduced quality?

I remember you laher.  You said that you couldn’t use a center channel at all in that situation and wanted a real simple solution which is why I put forth that audio-gd DAC preamp.  You also wanted power monitors and that was the Yamaha studio monitor suggestion.

However, for movie and tv audio, there is going to be a loss of clarity and coherence if you don’t actually have a center channel.  It’s actually harder to hear dialogue clarity in a 2 channel system, but if you don’t care about that, then a 2 channel Integrated will always sound better than an HT receiver for stereo music in your budget.

an “integrated amplifier” just combines a preamp and amplifier into one device.  Sometimes they also have a built in DAC.  That Rotel A12 is an excellent suggestion and hits all your requirements and it has four digital inputs.  However, it’s not actually 120 Watts per channel like robojerman said.  It’s really only 60 watts per channel so it’s kind of lit on the amp side.  That being said, those klipsch are 8 ohm speakers and extremely efficient at 98db, so they shouldn’t be that difficult to drive.   Just keep in mind that you will not be able to get a center channel with this integrated amp direction.

Good memory auxinput, I know you post a lot so that’s very impressive.
Yes that is at my parents place. I am
happy with the setup so thanks again. Just out of curiosity: I’ve removed the sub (Klipsch R-12SW) and that’s going to be used for my setup we are now discussing. So at my parents place is just the Yamaha’s. What would it take to add a center speaker to their setup? Would I need to add in an amp? Or is it better for them to get an AV receiver?

So for my setup, thanks for taking the time to explain what an integrated amp is. Is there no possibility of going this route but allowing for a center in the future? 
As for the Rotel A12’s, should I not be looking for something with more power per channel? What do I need for those Klipsch towers to bring out the best in them? I know you said that 60 watts is sufficient enough but I guess if I’m gonna spend I want to do it right and go for the best I can. Is there any other options which you could recommend?

I’d advise getting the best Marantz AVR that you can for $1k, if that is your budget. Marantz revs models yearly, so the $1k list price AVR will be available for $600 at some point - that’s what I did for my main H/T system (SR5012). Similarly, the $1.5k model (or whatever) will probably be available for $1k at some point. As I recall, the differences between these levels are primarily associated with the number of amplification channels and supported decode logic for Atmos or regular Dolby surround, and to lesser extent with wpc. I only needed seven channels for my setup, so the 5012 was perfect for me (by now that model is probably called the 5014 I’d guess).

I believe Marantz and Denon are sister companies and have similar product lines, but some dealers will tell you that Marantz gets slightly better component parts than Denon and that at comparable levels to go with Marantz (that said, I’m sure there are others who advise just the opposite). I can’t speak to Denon, but have been very happy with my SR5012 powering a 5.1.2 Atmos system (B&W front stage; Speakercraft height speakers (in-ceiling), Paradigm rear surrounds; Energy sub).

My other relevant experience is with Integra, the upscale sister company of Onkyo. I have the DTM-7 stereo receiver as the H/T hub in my 2.1 channel secondary system.

It works well also, but if your AVR is doing double duty for music and H/T, I prefer Marantz for at least two reasons. #1, Heos is much better as a streaming music controller than Playfi is in my experience, and #2 I prefer the sonics of Marantz as compared to Integra. Why is it better, IMO? It sounds fuller, more musical, less forward, and just brings out the emotion of the music better, IMO. I say this even though I currently have better speakers with the Integra system 2 than I do with the Marantz system 1, and it still sounds better to my ears.

So yeah, Marantz is my recommendation. Good luck.

Thanks kren0006 for your input on Marantz. I was looking at the Marantz SR7011 but only the Klipsch forum was advised to get the NAD T 758 V3.

Are you familiar with each? Could you comment on the differences in sound quality, features, specs?

You mentioned Heos being better than Playfi. Do you know what NAD uses?

The way you describe the sonics of the Marantz over the Integra is exactly what I’m looking for. I’m hoping you know about this NAD to be able to comment on the comparison.

Hello..
you takling about new AVR reciver, i have Yamaha RX- A2060 Vantage now.
Before that Denon 4308.
i think you can buy this in eBay no in god prices.
Dont forget  Black friday :-)
Yamaha i get in may places in copules of years a go for 1000..grand
the best with yamaha is the realt good app an the marveles good app. And the sound is like other, like... Denon-NAD-HK-etc.
After that i have buy Parasound Halo A21+ In the first stepp to Get the realt good sound.
https://oslohificenter.no/stereo/effektforsterkere/parasound-halo-a21

This is my first time on this forum.
Best regards from Norway
binders

Hi laher,

I don’t have specific experience with that NAD model, but I believe that it has been around for several years, and 7011 has also been around for about 3 years I think. I owned an NAD T770 AVR for 18 years (purchased in 2000) and it performed well and sounded good for Dolby Digital and 2 ch music.

A big difference between your choices looks to be that the 7011 is 9 channels, while 758 is 7 channels, so depending on how many surround channels you will power/decode, that could be important.

I’d expect the NAD to be more conservatively spec’d regarding amplification than Marantz -- that is, NAD claiming 110 wpc probably hits harder than Marantz claiming same, if you like to play loud or have to drive difficult speakers (I’m not sure whether your speakers are hard to drive, but if Klipsch probably not I’m guessing). NAD is 110 for 2 ch, and 60 for surround; Marantz is 110. Either probably okay for most everything.

I would expect the Marantz to have a warmer sound than the NAD. Several NAD amps that came after the 758 had the reputation in reviews for having a somewhat bright sound, but again I’m not sure if the amplification circuits in those amps are different than what is in the 758.

If I had to classify them as companies or brands, I’d say generally that Marantz is more focused on home theater than NAD is, and NAD is more focused on music than Marantz is, but that is a generalization. Meaning, a majority of Marantz’s product line seem to be focused on home theater (although they are getting more and more into 2 channel recently - prior to this summer they only had multichannel receivers and 2 ch integrated amps, but now they have more 2 ch offerings (see 7000n and a couple others I forget now). By contrast, most of NAD’s line is geared towards 2 ch music.

NAD uses BluOS as it’s streaming control service (NAD is a parent company of Bluesound), and BluOS is very good as well (my third system uses a Bluesound device). I’d call BluOS and Heos similar in effectiveness, although I think BluOS is probably more full featured and probably higher regarded within the industry, but that’s just a guess. For me they both work well. BluOS is arguably a leader in stream management though, so maybe they get the nod.

Hopefully that helps. I’d seek out 758 reviews and see if the sound is described as bright or forward, because if it is I’d be hesitant to pair with Klipsch. But if not, then probably a great choice (except that the model is pretty old, as mentioned previously).

Both appear to have some room correction. NAD has Dirac; Marantz has Audyssey. I think that Dirac is regarded better, but there are different versions of each so check that out.

It looks like the DAC chip used in 7011 is AK4458, which is same that I have in my SR5012. It’s a mid-level dac chip but I like the sound of it. The NAD appears to use a very old dac chip that I’m not familiar with. I’d give Marantz the edge on this point.

Bottom line, I think either would probably be pretty good. If it were my money, I’d go Marantz, but just barely.

Marantz -NAD -3-0

Come to think of it, however, my guess that the NAD may be a bit bright may be off-base, if the 758 is a class AB amp as opposed to the more recent class D NAD amps that had the reputation of some brightness.

Like I said, I haven’t heard the 758 so I’m only making educated guesses.

To be honest, I would have seriously considered the 758 a year ago when I got my SR5012 on clearance, but it was almost 3x the cost so I went the cheaper route and didn’t spend too much time considering the 758 because at that time I didn’t want to spend $1500 or $1800 or whatever it was on my AVR.  My budget at time was also $1k, just got lucky that $1k SR5012 went on clearance for $600 at just the right time.

Here's a thread discussing those two same amps - can't vouch for correctness of things there but relevant anyway:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2967780-should-i-swap-marantz-sr7011-nad-t758-v3-just-access-dirac.html

Thanks kren0006, really appreciate you taking the time to give your input. 
That forum is quite interesting, they talk about Dirac being better than Audyssey  I’m in a Klipsch forum too and few have spoken highly of the NAD over the Marantz too. 
After what you said about NAD’s, I am concerned about the potential for the 758 to sound too bright as this is definitely not what I want. I’m not able to test this out in any shop, so without finding someone who has heard the 758 it’s a bit of a risk right?
The amp in the 758 is a class AB for certain? And this does not produce a bright sound?

Having BluOS is definitely a plus by the sounds of it. You mentioned the DAC in the 758 is old, but do you know if it is mid level?

You mention that the NAD and the Marantz are old, is there a newer better model of each?

Yes, amp in 758 is class A/B, so I would disregard my previous suggestion that it may be brighter than ideal, as that was based on an incorrect assumption that the 758 may use same class D amps as later NAD amplifiers.

That's not to say the 758 may not be bright, but if it is it won't be for the reason I suspected.

I cannot find any information on which dac is used in the 758.

Yes, there are newer marantz models.  Here's how marantz model numbering works:
7xxx is better than 6xxx which is better than 5xxx

As to the last two numbers, 
14 means current year
13 means 1-2 years ago
12 means 2-3 years ago
11 means 3-4 years ago

They don't always rev each line each year - for example, 7013 is most current in that line, while they have 6014 and 5014 out already, but 8012 is the last model in the 8xxx line.

The Marantz receivers would only be recommended if you want a warmer sound with rolled off highs.  The NAD would ultimately do better for HT clarity and excitement.  Your klipsch speakers are not necessarily bright.   But, like I said, also look at Arcam.  The Arcam is a type of Class A amp and will have excellent sound quality, but will have a very smooth and slightly liquids sonic signature.

Save a little more money and grab a Anthem MRX520, no other brand comes close to their room correction software and it's full featured. 

You won't go wrong with Marantz or Denon for HT, as they pair well with Klipsch. I would suggest going to the Klipsch forum with you question(s)and reading the forums, you'll get a hockey sock full of information there. 

cheers, and Happy Thanksgiving to our southern neighbours. 

I use a Denon for ht and because of a temporary move also for stereo. Contrary to what some holier than thou people say, in Pure Stereo mode it does a respectable job for music. And this is with a 5k pair of speakers. Is it as good as Bryston or similar, of course not. But I believe it will suit your purposes just fine.