kinsekd wrote: "I've never been able to listen to Bob Dylan without getting a headache...Same goes for The Grateful Dead. Maybe I wasn't doing the right drugs or something."
Are there WRONG kinds of drugs to take while listening to The Grateful Dead?
I guess my post mentioning the Dead was deleted because of a naughty word i used to describe Celine Dion so i'll say it again: i never liked the Dead until i saw a concert, then i 'got it.' but the music you hear on their cds and lps (unless live) doesn't have anything to do with their live stuff which is what everyone is referring to when they say they are Dead fans. i dont understand the short studio cuts either... i wish someone could explain this to me. the dead sings about being on the run from the law, having kids around the country from women they knocked up, being in jail... this doesn't go with the vibe i got at the concert at all. |
Jax2-you are right to call me on that Movie thread but that was also born out of frustration out of what I saw as a completely pointless thread (most overrated album if I remember right).
What I thought I did was take a very humourous stance on movies I hated..I meant it but I thought I added something different..I guess part of my problem on this thread is seeing so many artists I admire being slated...
That's not a problem in itself but I think it would be pointless to write why I think that artist is great to a person who has clearly such fundamental problems stretching themselves to "understanding" that music.
Music is my passion,we can't like everything for sure but to not "get anything" strikes at my core,I need to at least try to understand music and I'm actually arrogant enough to state there's nothing I didn't get or realise on some level is giving someone something......I might not like it the way I don't particularly like strawberries.
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Ben- It is our differences, as well as our similarities, that makes life so rich and keeps things interesting. If we all liked the same things life would be pretty boring I think. In spite of your thinking this was a "dumb" thread (I get cranky too and have had similar knee-jerk reactions to things when I am, especially when it strikes at something at my core as you so eloquently have confessed), you have made some interesting contributions yourself and I would guess you may have gotten some 'value' from the insight necessary to write what you have. I guess I'm simply suggesting that is not a "dumb" thread at all. Perhaps if you apply the way you approach music (per your last paragraph) to how you view others points-of-view (simply try to understand them, recognize they may be different than yours, and also realize that you may also have much common ground as we all do) you may open yourself up to a whole new world of possibilities, as you do with the music! You don't need to change people at all, nor defend yourself or anyone else ...appreciate them for who they are, just as you are able to be so open to such a diverse selection of music.
Thank you for your candid thoughts...and I am not at all being sarcastic. I appreciate that they make me think about this stuff too.
Marco |
I'm surprised bombastic, pretentious, and constantly straining to be hip Bruce Springsteen hasn't gotten more votes. I get a head and throatache just hearing/seeing him. Does anyone else think it's funny people like Springsteen (and many others) who have been powerfully rich, pampered, and insulated for decades still write tunes about the "common man"? Where do they get inspiration, from one of the lackeys who makes sure they never have to see a red M&M? |
There is no music that I don't "get." It's all music. It's people that I don't get.
Greatest, in my mind:
Dylan (popular/rock)
John Coltrane and Kenny Dorham (jazz)
Other: Martin Stephenson and the Daintees |
Tomryan-Sprinsteen has approached that subject himself on the Human Touch/Lucky Town records-there's a line about "a rich man in a poor man's shirt"-he's well aware of that dichotomy within his work.
He's pissed me off in recent years with his record releases-10 Tracks having two songs not on the 4 CD box-set Tracks struck me as bleeding the fans dry.
He's not the man he used to be as regards that.
As for bombast,I'm sure live there is still a lot of that but as regards his music he's done very stripped down records reflecting his musical roots of country,blues and folk music.
As a writer he has carved out a niche and is probably the best living songwriter about reflecting the struggle of everyday life,it's failures and it's darkness and that is a pretty universal message-that's why his music has travelled so well around the world,sure it's about America on the surface but beneath his work is about humanity.
The mid-80's image of Born In The USA Bruce is something he'll perhaps never shake off.
As for his inspiration I'm sure it comes from everywhere,his own local community was devastated by 911 and all he had to offer (apart fom his charitable donations which he is famous for)is his music.
I don't like everything Springsteen has done but I don't think he ever wrote a word he didn't mean.
And that's more important than whether he's a multi-millionaire or not. |
Jax2 to answer your thoughtful post-I agree with every word you wrote and I think anybody's opinion is as valid as my own and sure differences of opinion are part of what makes the world go round but.........
I still think it's a dumb thread because some people clearly just don't get or like some music.
That ranges from The Beatles to Opera.....that don't dislike it for any reason than that they don't and that's my point-take a big enough straw poll and you'll get every band or musical form named.
If somebodys got an individual take or some insight then fine but otherwise it's just a list and a never ending one at that................. |
Most gazillionaires have a time honored method for keeping in touch with the beat on the street: they quiz their chauffeurs! :^) |
cpdunn99 - what don't you get about Coltrane the man? that's a very interesting comment. i'm very curious. i might agree even! please let me know. (do you like his music but just dont get him as a person? his philosophy of music, the way he lived his life??) i really am interested, not looking for an argument at all. |
Campbell speaks the truth again. have you been meditating or reading the krishnamurti again? i also think springsteen is sincere. Bono is another story all together.
rock virgo referenced limos in regard to these super rich musicians who started in poverty: springsteen once said he doesn't like riding in a limo. he said it's only fun when you know you're not supposed to be in one. that's thinking a long time back for him but at least he still gets it.
Tom waits is someone who really HAS avoided the pitfalls of success and remained humble, always experimenting with his music, pushing himself, unconcerned with public reaction and certainly unconcerned with the way he dresses (joan rivers wont be asking him from what designer he got his tux from anytime soon.) |
Opera for sure. I really cannot see what there is to listening to something I need a program to tell me what is being said. I can appreciate the range which some of the singers can hit, but I cannot see anything on it besides that. Most C&W I do not like either and the syuff that is out today is R&R Country. I could appreciate Hank Williams that was Country to me.
FOr Rock I have not come to understand much of Radiohead ,but I have just started to listen to it.The Dead I really do not see much in,but there are a few songs I can appreciate. Never got into the whole Dead scene though ,guess it just went right over my head without stopping to say hey Dude!
Dave Matthews has a few good tunes like "don't drink the water", but the rest go nowhere to me.
The ENYA thing is really stupid to me! Sounds like Mumbles and a woman having an orgasm on drugs! Maybe 1 song I can tolerate. The Cranberries remind me of Enya , but at least they have a voice with words. Kinda having an Orgasm with words.
Some of this stuff I will still try to listen to the stuff with the exception of Opera.
I could make a whole list, but I will stop banging the drum! |
I rest my case................. |
Please Viggen, give Orff's "Carman Burana" a try. It turned me into a hunter of those rare pieces of musical, non-vocal domineered, opera. (Ooops, I said that word again)!
Having said that - Sorry to have driven so many to write so much.
Many of you have brought up The Greatful Dead. I agree. I don't get it, BUT the "Shakedown Street" is a great album especially for it's "vibe". |
Interesting about Nirvana and Kurt. If you like rock, as something other than entertainment value, or some form of mind numbness ( T. Adorno, Aesthetics Theory), Nirvana, had
some interesting things to say, with some blazing chordal progressions, white heat kind of music. Maybe in some very limited way the last of the great rock bands, that had roots from the 60s and 70s. Having said that, I do appreciate the White Stripes, and the Yeah, Yeah Yeahs, as a take on garage band music of the 60s with a tinge of punk.
After Charlie Patten and Robert Johnson, there is not one artist I like for acoustical blues.
After Muddy Waters( the best concert I every saw) and Howlin' Wolf, there is not one artist I like for electric blues.
After Bo Diddley and Buddy Holley, most of the 50s music is
horridly unoriginal (Maybe Fats and Chuck B.), and even their music is highly uneven.
After the Yardbirds and Rolling Stones, most of the 60s music is a take off of their styles.
After Led Zeppelin, most of the 70s stuff is absolutely wretched.
After REM, most of the 80s stuff is bland and boring.
After Nirvana, most of the 90s stuff is unlistenable whining.
I cannot say anything affirmative or negative about the 00s.
It is not that I do not like other artists, but most of is not important or not very artistic, in a aesthetic way. In a very perverted way, I could listen to the Beep Beep song
by the Playmates, it was funny and entertaining.
There is only one pop group I cannot stand in any shape or
form and that is the Beatles.
Country music: After Hank Williams Sr. what more could be said or done, about drinking and lovin'.
Bluegrass: After Bill Munroe or Flat and Scruggs......
Jazz: After Louis Armstrong and Charlie Parker........
Classical: Stravinsky was the biggest fraud.
Now that I got that of my chest: Pick up some Alfred
Schnittke and play it loud or G Ligeti and play it even
louder! Probably the most dissonant, incredibly dense
harmonically structured music I have ever heard. I want
more, makes Webern and Schoenberg look like gushing romantics that they were. |
What is PJ Harvey all about? I don't get it! I tried to like K D Lang too, but it didn't take. Must be the intial thing... |
Nrchy - You plucked out two ringers that I was trying to think of myself. PJ just grates on me and I've tried several albums on numerous occassions. KD's got a great voice but I just can't get into her songs for some reason.
Tomryan - I'm still laughing about the Red M&M's! Reminds me of that great Kevin Spacey film, Swimming with Sharks. I do happen to like some of Springstein's music though. Just shoot me.
Enjoy Nirvana at times in small doses, as I do some other 'unlikely' bands when you consider my broader tastes. In those realms I do really enjoy Tool and Filter in small doses if I'm in the mood. These kind of unlikely preferences keep me way open to all kinds of music. I'll always give something a try, at least a few times.
Not a fan of opera overall, but have heard and been drawn to many gorgeous passages of opera music, and performers whose voices defy confinement. How could you not be moved by someone like Cecilia Bartoli?!
Marco |
Kublakhan,
I didn't take your comments to mean you were arguing or debating! Not in the least. I don't know much about Coltrane, the man. My comment about "it's people I don't get" was meant to be a little tongue-in-cheek and to refer to people in general, not anyone specifically.
As for Coltrane, I know and love his music. All I know about him otherwise is that he had a heroin problem for quite a while, but that he became very spiritual later. |
Opera, country, angst-ridden music. I listen to music for enjoyment, not to hear someone whine, cry, moan and groan about everything in life. That's probably why I like a lot of instrumental, rock or jazz; they spare me of the miseries. |
You didn't care for Diane Schuur and Maynard Furgerson??!!! I don't get it. If you have set parameters concerning music..it would be out of most parameters... but for me... I loved it... and I don't know either one. |
frank195, Diane Shure was awful, but that's just my opinion and I'm realistic to know that "one man's treasure is another man's trash." I really dig Maynard, but this was a mistake. Anyway, my Dad liked this CD and he knows more about music than I'll ever know. |
Leonard Cohen, Tom Waits and Jtinn and the Tenor Boys.
Music for bipolar disorders. |
Opera has never done it for me. Operatic sopranos set my teeth on edge. I never had much of a taste for melodrama, either, and most libretti drip with it. |
Goerge Gobel, but he's still my all time fave.
Who says that you have to get it to get it? |
Well Jc that two against one |
I'll second the following:
Dave Matthew's
Jazz
Kiss
Aerosmith
RAP- terrible, is that even a music?, what a profanation, and look at the kind of money all these "artists" making.Speaks a lot about current tastes in music.
I'm wondering if Rock'n'Roll evoked the same kind of feelings in the 60's and 70's.My guess is not- I grew up on classic rock, still listening to it today. It stood the test of time. Will see about N'Sync, Britney Spears, Dr. Dre and the likes in another 20 years.
Continuing the list:
Yes - never couldn't quite get it,too pretentious for me, but i do agree they are a great musicians. Love Genesis and Jethro Tull though.
Creed- what a nauseating creation, just like a syrup, only worse. |
I wonder if this question shouldn't be: What bands are out there that just have no substance, but reviewers still have to try to justify their existance??? Maybe we try to read thing into people or bands that are just shallow and meaningless.
It's like calling crap 'art' and expecting others to agree. |
Ya know Nrchy, Its kinda funny that you said that, there is an artist i was reading about a couple weeks ago who recently sold to the smithsonian a can filled with his own feces.
somehow managed to pass it off as art.
hehehhehehe |
I have to "re-nominate" Radiohead. What the hell is all the hype about ??? Between these guys and a band called Porcupine Tree, i've wasted too much time and money trying to see what others and reviewers see / hear in them.
This gives me an idea. Rather than just trying to sell discs outright, is anybody open to "trading" discs that they don't like for discs that they like or just want to check out ? If we can find a way to post lists of what we want to "dispose of", we may be able to set up some type of system that allows us to exchange discs between us from within our collections. Not only would this expand our musical horizons, it might allow us to "clean house" in terms of helping us to get rid of discs that we never listen to and give them a home where they are better appreciated. Sound reasonable ? Sean
> |
Sean,
I like your idea. Just wonder if the goons at the RIAA would try to stomp all over this like they have the file swappers? |
Sean,
That is a GREAT idea! Sort of an Audiogon "trading post." I can think of at least a dozen CDs/LPs I've bought this year that I would like to trade. I'm all for your idea. It may be worth creating a new thread in case other potential advocates don't check into this one.
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Well, I think I'm gonna be lambasted for this one...80 posts and noone has mentioned this guy...everyone must like him but me.
Neil Young. Ack. |
I agree with you sean, i dont see the big deal about radiohead, and im smack dab in the age group that is supposed to get it.
I think it is more reserved for those "Metrosexual" types, not so much guy guy's like me |
Would that make you "Rurasexual"? |
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Rurasexual? dunno..
metrosexual male is basically your typical GQ guy who spend lots of time in front of the mirror and use fasemasks and mudbaths, and manicures and pedicure...
im not sure who coined that phrase, but basically "Pretty boys"
I read about it in the newspaper the other day. Guys who use alot of facial scrubs and the stuff your wife probably has in her closets of bath supplies. They are all about fasion, and what shoes go with what and whatever..
I have a couple buddys like that. Seems kinda girly but they always look thier best. i know some women who like that sort of thing, i know alot who dont as well.
Not my bag of tea, but to each his own eh? |
Yeah I read about that as well...very sensitive types concerned about appearance more than anything. I figured I'd coin a term oppositional to "metro" by using "rural".
Didn't go over too well ;) |
Celine Dion - has anyone brought her up yet? Sweet JESUS! Her style isn't something I would like regardless but what's up with her popularity? I mean...what the $%&!? |
Joew
oh yeah.. duh huh? gotcha.. :) |
I don't understand Maplethorpes' "art" either. If he donated a jar of his blood and organs then I'd be impressed. |
I am glad I only wasted $3 for a Radiohead CD. The rest I traded CDR's for.
What about Trading CDR's? Why not start a thread relating to it. I have over 300CD's from Trading Music and it has saved me alot!
Are there any idea's?We would have to send each other list through private Emails for it to work!
JMO |
Celine Dion-Yeah,I was stupid enough to get TITanic and 2 others I think because of a remark from a friend,but I only spent like $2-$3 each for them.
KORN and Hansons are a few other worthless CD's I have.
Matthew Sweet I do not much from!
There are others that ake up room in my collection! |
I don't get the Diana Krall thing either (and believe me, I've tried). My wife's a huge fan, so we've got the cd's, been to the concerts, etc. etc. and yet I still don't get it.
Nice legs, 'tho.
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Diana Krall, she cannot hold a sound for more that 3 seconds...really gets on my nerves. Furthermore, all photos of her (and her Ads for Chrysler) are trying to make her look like a feminine, sexy woman. Pardon my expression, but, I think she has as much grace as a football player. I bought a cd, I got another as a gift, and my ears bleed everytime.
As for Celine Dion, her English singing is typically ''trhough the nose'' sounds. Try any of her French cd's, especially ''D'eux'', and you will discover an absolutely fantastic and stunning voice, more ''in control'' than most any contemporary artist. It just so happens that most French pronounciation and words come from the throat and chest, totally different from the english singing. Sort of like Patricia Barber, except that Dion can soar into the sky and not stay on the first floor like Barber's voice... Her current (Dion) ''techno pop'' songs are a discredit to her voicing abilities.
cheers! |
Great thread.
I don't get:
Dave Matthews
Phish
Lyle Lovett
And I'm a hardcore Deadhead, someone who's "supposed" to like all three of the above. Yes, the Dead I got. Big time, but not really before I saw them live (Colt Park, 1975). Someone above noted the distinction between the live Dead and the studio Dead. Not even close to being the same band. I always assumed that they did the studio stuff to keep the mainstream world and record industry happy and the concert promoters (other than Bill Graham) fed with pr fodder. I have about 50 Dead recordings in one form or another, but haven't listed to a studio recording in years. To me, the Dead have ALWAYS been a band to listen to live or not at all. With the new Dicks Picks (since no. 17 I think) coming out in HDCD, it's a whole new world from 6th, 7th or 8th generation cassettes.
IMHO, most people who either don't get the Dead or don't like the Dead, when pressed, seem to be most turned off by the Deadhead "culture," and know very little about--or worse have never heard--the music. I've turned a few friends from detractors to fans when I dragged them to a show. And it didn't even require drugs! |
Dcwinton, how can you like the Dead and not like Phish? The first time I heard Phish I thought someone had cloned Jerry's DNA. |
I know. Strange. But I find them very gimmicky and a bit too clever for what I think their level of talent can handle. Sort of like Foreigner trying to play Pink Floyd or Steely Dan. I wish I did like 'em, because it would make my social life easier, and my family life too as I turned my four nephews into Deadheads and they all became Phish and Dave Matthews fanatics. My loss I'm quite certain, but there's no accounting for taste. |
For me, the difference is the songs. |
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Dave Matthews, Most any Jazz (maybe I will like it when I grow up) Madonna, Celine |
Dcwinton,
Interesting comments on the Dead/Phish comparisons. I am a long time Dead afficionado (since 1973), and done the whole taper thing, amassing thousands of hours of material. Dick's Picks and the From The Vault series are HQ godsends to fans. I've seen Phish 30 or 40 times since 1993 as well. Page O'Connell and Trey Anastasio are very gifted musicians and the interplay between the two of them is electrifying at times.Give a listen some time to "Live Phish, 12/14/95 Broome County Arena". The tapes as well as the commercial release are widely availble (email me off list for a copy).Set 2 is almost 1 hour of unbroken exploration. I agree with your gimmicky remark though. To my mind, I find Jon Fishman (Drummer)and his clownish stage antics distracting. I don't think Mike Gordon's bass playing is in the same league with Page and Trey. What has killed the Phish concert experience for me are the fans. Too much begging for free tix, stealing, obnoxious seat surfing, nitrous use and other boorish behavior.
The media has pretty much made the "if you like the Dead, you must like Phish" thing into more than it is. Dead and Phish both allow taping, both handle their own ticket sales, both have legions of loyal tour heads, both are/were masters of live improvisational style, both have far more enlightened moments live rather than on the obligitory studio stuff. Too many "Touch Of Grey Heads" who came late to the Grateful Dead party (since Aug. 9, 1995), don't have them to groove to, so instead they try to wrap themselves around Phish as the second coming of the GD rather than allowing Phish to stand for their own style of musical communication. Witness Phish's own 2 year self imposed hiatus to slow the train down. I do appreciate Phish and what they can do on stage. Some nights have been absolutely other worldly. But like you, I stand firmly in the you-can-dig-the-Dead-without-digging-Phish camp. |
