What wire to use instead of Romex

@jea48

Next week I'm going to stop by a local electrical supply house that I've been to before and buy the cable myself. I should probably get a more accurate measurement in case I can purchase by the foot and save a few bucks versus buying a 50-foot run (if it's even available in that length).

I didn't even know about anti-short bushings. Thanks so much for the links. At first I thought it was more like a grommet to line the hole into the panel box. Seeing the video of how they're installed, it definitely makes sense to me to use them. I'll grab a couple either at Home Depot or the supply house, so long as they don't obscenely overcharge for them and if they're not already included with the cable.  I'll keep you and the others here in the loop. Have a great weekend!

"Because of HOA rules/regs, I cannot use Romex" It's this kind of ignorance that ensures I'll never live where there is an HOA. What business it is of theirs what kind of wiring you or anyone else uses if used correctly? 

A. Use the pre-made steel-clad with all three solid-core wires twisted

 If the HOA will allow it in the garage. Continuous unbroken run from the Electrical panel to the wall outlet.

Problem? I’m not sure where the Electrician will buy the steel armored MC cable. Maybe at an electrical wholesale house??? He may have to buy a 250ft roll, $$$

My guess is the electrician will say he can only get the aluminum armored MC cable.   

 Example  

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Southwire, 10-2 MC aluminum armored cable Website.

Quote:

 " THHN/THWN conductors rated 90°C dry available in sizes 14 AWG through 2 AWG, and a green insulated grounding conductor. The conductors are cabled together and a binder tape bearing the print legend is wrapped around the assembly. Aluminum interlocking armor is applied over the assembly."

End of quote.

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Go to page 12

Metal Clad (MC) is manufactured in both steel and aluminum with twisted conductors that help reduce AC magnetic fields. Although the steel jacket helps reduce AC magnetic fields, the twisting of conductors has the greatest effect on reducing these fields.

Another benefit is the constant symmetry of the phase conductors with respect to the grounding conductor which greatly reduces voltage induction on the grounding wire.

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Make sure he doesn’t buy AC/BX cable! You don’t want that stuff to feed you audio equipment!

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FYI, though Anti Short bushings are not required by NEC code for MC cable, I highly recommend you tell the electrician you want them installed anyway. If he says you don’t need them. Tell him, you want them anyway. They are cheap and it will take the electrician about 15 seconds to install one. 

Example:

Pretty simple to install.

 

@jea48 (and @ghdprentice @nwres @zlone @ditusa)  I did read from the two sources you linked. To be honest, a lot of it went over my head. Taking everything into consideration, would it be more advisable to:

A. Use the pre-made steel-clad with all three solid-core wires twisted
B. Use two solid-core wires twisted together with one stranded along side for ground and pull the three wires through flexible steel conduit

Oh, and should I specify THHN wire?

I also should mention that my HOA doesn't want Romex inside conduit in the garages, so that is not an option for me, While I THINK it's okay by code, I have been told that Romex can generate heat inside conduit.

10 AWG Solid Core Copper w/Insulated Stranded Ground.

MC cable is not made that way. All solid conductors or all stranded conductors. 

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Twist the hot and neutral together before pulling the wires and run the ground along side.

Nothing in the NEC code says he can’t twist the Hot and neutral single conductors together before pulling them in the conduit. If the electrician says NEC does not allow it get him to tell you the Article and section... Now the AHJ, has the final say though.

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Romex is perfectly acceptable too as far as code is concerned, but not a good idea to put inside conduit.

NEC code doesn’t prohibit pulling NM sheathed cable, (Romex trade name) in EMT conduit.

For #10-2  Romex in the garage area the electrician would use 3/4" EMT conduit.  

EMT conduit

Example, #10awg THHN/THWN solid copper wire   

  

I’ll just shrug my shoulders and smile when he shakes his head and/or rolls his eyes.

Who is paying who for doing the Job? 

What he should be thinking. If you got the money, I got the time...

What are you going to say if he tells you #12awg wire is used for a 20 amp circuit? Not #10 wire. Solid #10 ??? Stranded is all you need. 

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Did you take the time to look these over?

Some reading material for you:

An Overview of Audio System Grounding & Interfacing

 Read page 16, and pages 31 thru 36.

 Just go to page 31, 32, 33, & page 35. Note, page 35 in the chart shown, the hot and neutral conductors twisted together tested the best, followed by MC cable.  

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Integrating Electronic Equipment and Power

Why use MC cable over Romex? 

Why twisted twisted pair is better than MC.

Read pages 11, 12, &13. 

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FWIW, NEC code is bare minimum electrical safety standards. NEC could care less how your audio system sounds. 

Is the electrical wiring installation electrically safe? Code is satisfied.

 

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That will be an interesting discussion. 😀 Good luck, and let us know how it sounds when you are done. 
 

@jea48 @ghdprentice @nwres @zlone @ditusa 

The distance measurement is a down-over-across-farther down rough measurement.

Flexible conduit is allowed by code. My town's fussy code inspector saw what I was using for me EV charger outlet run and was fine with it. Romex is perfectly acceptable too as far as code is concerned, but not a good idea to put inside conduit. As I said before, the HOA wants any wires in the garage inside conduit, presumably for a uniform appearance as the garage is a shared area with four bays, one for each condo in the building (there are 86 buildings).

I fully expect to get a funny look from any electrician when I specify, "Metal Clad (galvanized steel, not aluminium) 10 AWG Solid Core Copper w/Insulated Stranded Ground. Twist the hot and neutral together before pulling the wires and run the ground along side."  I'll just shrug my shoulders and smile when he shakes his head and/or rolls his eyes.

Thank you all for the input. It's very appreciated!

Because of HOA rules/regs, I cannot use Romex. Wires in the garage must be inside conduit.

That also may be the AHJ (Authority having Jurisdiction) electrical code in your area as well. In Chicago IL only EMT conduit is allowed in residential housing. MC or AC/BX, nor flexible metal conduit is allowed. Going from memory in NY City, NY Romex is not allowed.

You need to contact the Electrical Contractor you will be using. He will know what you can use. Also have a copy of the HOA requirement for him to read.

As for using EMT conduit I would suggest you ask the Electrician to twist the Hot and Neutral conductors together before pulling them in the conduit. Pull the EGC, (Equipment Grounding Conductor) along side the twisted pair when installing the branch circuit wiring in the EMT conduit. The EGC could be #12awg green insulated solid copper wire if you use #10awg copper wire.(FWIW, the electrician may tell you you don’t need an EGC insulated conductor in the conduit. Per NEC the EMT conduit is an approved EGC. It’s your call... I would have him install the EGC insulated conductor anyway.  

 

Solid core wire only for the Hot and neutral conductors. Tell the electrician you want solid wire not stranded. He is going to resist the suggestion. Hold firm.

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The run from the main panel in the garage to my living room above is relatively short - maybe 25 or 30 feet.

Did you guesstimate Up, over, across, and down?  

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Some reading material for you:

An Overview of Audio System Grounding & Interfacing

 Read page 16, and pages 31 thru 36.

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Integrating Electronic Equipment and Power

Read pages 11, 12, &13. 

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Use an electrician for installation. But specify the wire. They will think you are crazy, every time I have done it they have. They will refuse to believe that different wire sounds different. I just asked them to humor me. Definitely 10 gauge. I think there is specialty wire. I'm sure someone here will specify it.  I used 10 gauge Rolex. Excellent improvement in my system. 

Depends on the local code requirements that your HOA is following. In some states, though not common, hollow (metal/Alum) conduit is required to be bent and set, then solid wire fished through. MC flex cables may only be used for certain lengths of runs. It all depends... If you don't know your local code requirements, as said before, consult your electrician first before picking products. A licensed electrician will know the code.

No help here, sorry. I was under the impression that solid core is code, though I am sure someone else can comment. I just ran Romex for my dual lines, but it is only about 15 feet.

 Solid Core copper conductors with insulated ground, not stranded. The electrician will know where to get steel-clad MC cable.

Mike

Thanks @zlone and @ditusa 

I'm definitely going to have an electrician do the install for me.  I'm okay with working on 110, but I don't trust myself around the main panel!  Looking at MC cables on Amazon and HomeDepot.com, they all seem to be aluminum-clad, not steel, and both stranded and solid core copper are available.

New Q1: Stranded vs Solid Core?
New Q2: Any tips on where I can find steel-clad? 

Thanks again!
Patrick

@roccity Wrote:

Is BX the way to go?

NO! Do not use BX for audio see below:

For dedicated audio lines I would go with Type MC Galvanized Steel Metal Clad Cable 10 AWG. It has better EMI and EF shielding versus aluminum armor. FWIW, I have four dedicated lines for audio, one for each monoblock amp, one for analog and one for digital. 😎

Mike

 

Dedicated lines are a great upgrade. Based on all of your questions and rules I think it might be a good idea to get some help from an electrician. Don’t overthink this, plain copper will do the job.