what to buy first
@mhsmith, What HT Receiver do you have? What B&W Speakers? What is you source? CD? Analog TT? Providing some additional information may help folks offer a more informed opinion. Regarding "what to do": consider the end game. What do you want to have at the end? Will it be a 2-channel system? What will all of the source components be? Will you have an analog source, such as a turntable, as well as one or more digital sources? |
+1 reubent and gdnrbob.
Definitely demo as much you can, you'll save money in the long run if you know what you prefer. Don't trust anyone's ears but your own (or maybe your wife's), but be prepared to hear more (both good and bad) as time goes on. Once you have an ideal, it will be easier to plan it out in steps. Speakers will be the most noticeable change, but if your receiver is underpowered they may disappoint you at home until you upgrade your amp. Depending on your components and where you live, a power conditioner might give you an immediate improvement, or be a waste of money. Don't overlook aspects that are not 100% about sound quality. If you love playing vinyl, a nice turntable may give you the most enjoyment even with lesser components downstream. Conversely if you find managing your library annoying, Tidal and a streamer might put the biggest smile on your face. |
I agree you need to answer the questions posed by timlub, mhsmith and gdnrbob above before beginning your purchases. Once you do that, I would start with determining which speakers you want since they are arguably the biggest influence on how your system will sound and the speakers will also determine the appropriate amplification to best drive them. The best way to determine what speakers you want is to do what gdnrbob suggested; listen to as many speakers as you can while also identifying the type of speaker you generally like the sound of best or least - dynamic cone, planar, horn, electrostatic, etc. - so you can whittle down the abundance of choices to a smaller more manageable list of candidates. Closely related to speaker selection is whether you need or want to use subwoofers in your new system. Based on my personal experiences over the past 40 years, I consider the best approach in any room is to first get the bass performance to your preference so that the sound has a solid foundation and then progress to attaining good performance on all the frequencies above the bass. Typically, it is considered more difficult, by most who have attempted it, to get good bass response in any given room than it is to get good performance on frequencies above the bass in any given room. My knowledge has developed to the level that I've been able to attain good performance in my room for the entire audible frequency range and I believe I can assist mhsmith and others in achieving similar results in their rooms. I understand, however, that you can't currently afford to buy a complete system all at once. If you'd like to get your new system up and running as soon as possible, you may need to deviate from a predetermined optimum sequence of acquiring the components. I'm referring to things such as possibly delaying the purchase of your planned speakers and using your smaller B&W speakers instead so that at least you have some speakers to use while you save for your desired ones. Tim onc |
As many of us have found out the hard way, when it comes to hardware it is the loudspeakers that have the greatest effect. From planars to monkey coffins to open baffles there are no bigger sonic differences to be found in audio equipment. The funny thing is that in spite of the large sonic differences to be found, they all claim to be attempts to be accurate. It would be interesting to see whether there has been any convergence in high end loudspeaker sound in recent decades, because there are still All you can do currently is to decide which compromise you find easiest to live with for now. For me it was a case of finding a sound I liked (clean, quick and expressive mids) and only coming to recognise much later what compromises were involved in getting that sound with that product (nothing much below 70Hz). It will be a great help of you have a good idea of what you like est eg deep responsive bass, expressive midrange, clean detailed treble etc. You are unlikely to get all 3 at any price! Such a manmade device doesn't yet exist. So choose your compromises carefully for long term satisfaction. Amplifier differences are far smaller at least in my experience with NAD, Marantz, Naim, Creek etc. The Naim was the one which stood out with immediacy at the price of a mild tonal washout. |
Really good speakers are very expensive; I would stretch as far as I could on a preamp; Audible Illusions for example; I've had mine since they came out, and it's been trouble free. I replaced the electrolytic capacitors recently to freshen up the sparkle. Dollar per dollar, nothing has a bigger effect than the pre-amp. The most expensive speakers in the world will give you lousy music if you don't have the right electronics. https://www.stereophile.com/content/audible-illusions-modulus-3a-preamplifier-page-3 |
I have a marantz sr 7011 and bookshelf B&W 685. I am using a benchmark dec running off my mac mini. I don't have plans on getting a turntable. I would like to do tubes amp and preamp. I have an extremely large open room with 30 foot high ceilings and lots of glass. Window treatments are not an option. I have one area rug, but mostly tile floor in the room. I have read about the monitor platinum 5 speakers and on paper they sound like a nice set, although I have not heard them. I will use the receiver and speakers in another room eventually but I plan on using the dec and mac mini on my new system. Thanks for above responses. |
Interesting question. The Benchmark DAC/Mac-mini is a well-respected combination for a source. However, based on my experience with a Marantz SR5006 AVR, that is probably your weak link. Despite the power rating, it sounds very anemic to my ears. I would go for as good an integrated amp as you can afford right now. There are quite a few tube integrated amps advertised right now on A'gon across a very wide price range. If you give us a budget, we can make some suggestions. I agree that you should stretch as far as you can to get a good foundation and also agree that if you go for separates, then a really good pre-amp is the heart of a good system. For those who say start with speakers, I would reply that the Marantz AVR will not give you even a taste of what really good speakers can deliver. Speakers that are designed with tube amps in mind are going to be very disappointing when driven with that Marantz. And if your goal is a tube amplifier, then matching "tube friendly" speakers to the amp is critical, once you upgrade your speakers. If your budget can stand it, a decent sub-woofer with the tube amp driving the B&Ws might be a good idea. And consider replacing the jumpers on the back of the B&Ws. Cardas make some reasonably priced copper jumpers. |
mhsmith What should be purchased first? Speakers first pick the ones you like the sound of first in good Audio shops, as most shops will have them driven an amp that does them justice, as speakers can be hard or easy to drive. Once you’ve got the speakers, come back here and ask which amp/s will drive them best, as some of here will look at the specs impedance/phase/loading etc graphs of the speakers you’ve purchased and recommend the right type of amp/s Cheers George |
While different makes and models of speakers clearly sound quite different and some measure out better than others in instrumented tests, they can only work off the signal fed to them. The SR 7011 is a decent AVR, so it's likely that better speakers may give you sound quality that you like and enjoy better, i.e., more and deeper bass extension and possibly better tweeters. But i also agree with swampwalker above that amplifier quality can be just as important. And in my experience cables can also make a big difference, although many swear that is "fairy dust". I am currently running a Denon AVR-X5200, which is pretty high in the Denon lineup, but using a separate class A power amp, which is a Krell FPB-400cx. I do believe the Krell improves the quality of the sound over the built in amp in the receiver. If you know what amp you want to end up with, I guess you could use it with your receiver and see how it compares. |
The MA Platinums are incredible speakers; very neutral in my opinion. As I believe the Benchmark can function as a preamp--at least for digital-- getting a power amp rather than an integrated will give you more options in the future. You'll want a tube amp with a lot of power. Audio Research is a personal favorite. The Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP is reputedly excellent for the money and easy to tube roll to taste (I've only heard their entry level model). I'm sure others can give you many more options. |
I agree with swamp & George - The Benchmark DAC/Mac-mini is at least very good (DAC1) to xlnt (DAC2, and 3) - you did not say which one you have. Get speakers you like (say Vandies or Maggies) and then buy a tube pre-amp (say a used Audio research). The Benchmark amp is outstanding by all accounts and the tube pre- will give you the warmth and liquidity you want. After that you can try some things to reduce noise, but the Benchmark DAC is so well-designed that the usual tweeks for inferior DACs may no help much. So focus on room treatments after getting your speakers. A lower cost option is a stack of Schiit units |
+1 for speakers first. IMO every manufacturer has a 'house' sound and variations within that. Even if your amp or source is "isn't good enough" for optimal sound the speakers can deliver you now have an idea where to go next. Personally I don't look at specs because I've never seen a spec that will tell you how it sounds. For that reason YOU need to decide what speakers you want. For a suggestion I would recommend you listen to Dynaudio - Magico - Raidho - YG. They all sound different. Again YOU need to make that choice. For tubes I had Octave in the past and they make wonderful sounding amps that are pretty bullet proof. Best of luck |
