jetter ^^^^ The two sides will never meet. Where some consider it a special person with a sense of adventure and curiosity to experiment with some of the more, "bizarre" tweaks, others just consider this the "freak side show" of audio.
But above all, its your money and you spend it however you like.
>>>>Actually there is only one side. I humor the tweakaphobes by letting them think there are two sides. Don’t tell anyone. 🤫
OK, I’m going to help you guys out. Here is a short list of iconic outrageous tweaks. 1
Tiny little bowl acoustic resonators, 7/8” diameter, silver, gold and platinum versions. Don’t ask how much they are.
Ultra Tweeters from Golden Sound, electromagnetic output 3 GHz, nothing below that.
Schumann frequency generator from Acoustic Revive circa $800, 7.8 Hz electromagnetic wave improves audio system as well as acoustic instruments like piano.
Walker Talisman demagnetizer for CDs, interconnects and LPs. I got mine ten years ago as industry insider, I think they’re $300 now, maybe more.
Cream Electret and Silver Rainbow Foil from PWB Electronics, everybody’s favorite witch doctor. I mention these two things because you can get free samples, just mention my name. These two products made the Stereophile Recommended Components List about 4 years ago. Guaranteed to blow your mind. 🤯
Last but not least, The Photos in the Freezer Tweak. Instructions upon request. Blow your mind. 🤯
1 My Teleportation Tweak didn’t make this list because it’s an Amateur list.
Another Saturday and I guess you must be using your special powers once again. But one would expect no less from the sorcerer with a pocket full of magic crystals and cocoa pebbles, sorry, I meant brilliant pebbles.
^^^ The two sides will never meet. Where some consider it a special person with a sense of adventure and curiosity to experiment with some of the more, "bizarre" tweaks, others just consider this the "freak side show" of audio.
But above all, its your money and you spend it however you like.
"...My experiment with stones and crystals were great tweaks with positive results but less evident one by one than with the resonators...My tweaking of mechanical vibrations were also evident but less so than the effect of the resonators,but I listen now to my resonators with an already tweaked system, electrically, and mechanically... Without these tweaks perhaps the effect of the resonators would have been there but less astounding in their evidence... All tweaks put my already good system to another level that is for sure..."
I wonder if you have heard of a British satirical magazine called Private Eye? It was originally founded by comedian Peter Cook and features a column called Pseuds Corner.
Your post my friend, I feel would be a prime candidate for submission. Perhaps some of mine too.
I have found that what I have on for clothes can really impact my sound quality. The best solution seemed to be none. That was it doesn’t color the sound. I also then deduced if I shave my body the acoustic vibrations of my follicles would not have an influence as well. All for free!!!!
It may be amusing to tear down and poke fun at weird products. But if it’s done to a genuinely great product out of ignorance, then it’s more destructive than fun. Is it any wonder that someone with actual experience using such a product may have a desire to set the record straight?
There is a fine line between between the quality of the components of a system and the listening capacity of the owner on the one hand (in relation with the mechanical grid,acoustic grid, electrical grid, information grid of his actual listening room) and on the other hand his final hability to discern what need to be implemented first and foremost...
But Geoff is right, in a good system in general tweaks are more easy to discern in their impact and value...But for example if your room is bad, even if your system is good you will not perceive so clearly good tweaks and the so called "snake-oil" and the placebo effects... Conclusion : some tweaks are more important than other to implement first...
For example put resonators even relatively bad one in a room and you will hear clearly evident change, great one or bad one, it is necessary to finetune the resonators for sure to make than very good...My experiment with stones and crystals were great tweaks with positive results but less evident one by one than with the resonators...My tweaking of mechanical vibrations were also evident but less so than the effect of the resonators,but I listen now to my resonators with an already tweaked system, electrically, and mechanically... Without these tweaks perhaps the effect of the resonators would have been there but less astounding in their evidence... All tweaks put my already good system to another level that is for sure...
mahgister, Don't think for a moment that I discourage playing about with the system. This should be fun. I go back to say 1963 when I was rewinding my slot car motors with #32 wire, balancing, polishing, and upgrading my Mabuchi's to beat the expensive Mura brand name motors. I got pretty good at it. I built my own frames from scratch as well just as I build amplifiers now.
The idea I wanted to express was not that you should not experiment. I applaud your initiative. That's a sane way to approach things, experiment and verify results.
What I did want to put on the table was the note that the original poster asked a fun question about the most ridiculous, bizarre, and laughable aspects of our hobby, a subject that should have been greeted with mirth, and while many joined in with the fun, a number of purveyors of the ridiculous, bizarre, and laughable descended on the tableau to let us know that the loony way is the way of the wise. The cabal of the crazy could not restrain themselves from educating us away from our transgressions.
Please, those of us who, dare I say it, have been doing this for over 40 years, yes I said it again, have had time and experience to sort the wheat from the chaff.
There are plenty of people still angry about Copernicus. There are Alchemists about still. Listen to them if you like. That's fine. Still, as I asked before, why do those revisionists who refuse to let skeptics think like skeptics insist so assuredly of promulgating the absurd as Gospel so vociferously that a fun thread becomes, well becomes what a lot of threads become.
Keep experimenting. Keep thinking. Keep having fun. That's exactly what you should do.
I read an article about pricey resonators one month ago....Very pricey.... I dont think: that is only and pure "snake-oil", people are so gullible etc...And I dont rant to expel some emotions about the general stupidity of the world except myself... Face reality, think and experiment; I decide to made my own resonators at practically no cost and it is the better innovation tweak that I ever experience and that give me my dream: an audio system of very good level... Forget that without all the tweaks + the resonators I experiment with except with substantial amount of ...
Simple: dont rant, think, experiment and communicate to us your experience for a better listening experience...
As has been written earlier, I find it hard to accept a little metal box that sells for $50,000 has the same amount of technology, testing, and time invested of a similarly priced Mercedes. Or that a record clamp is a technological marvel enough to cost $4K.
Adam Smith wrote that something is worth whatever you pay for it and I can agree with it, but many of the tweaks out now - the ones costing many thousands of dollars, seem simply like trinkets designed to assure those who can afford them that it's okay to afford them.
kqvkq I do have to offer my compliments to the original poster for a fun idea, it was inevitable that the thread would descend into argument. Why? Well, speaking as someone who has been involved in the hobby for over 40 years, I’ve watched the lunatic fringe rise from Auntie Enid and Peter Beltto, to well what it has become.
Why would the eye bulging types invade the thread to defend that tweaks and gizmos and Audio Jewelry are the bee’s knees? What do they need to defend? Can’t skeptics ridicule the craziness that inhabits audio in peace?
>>>>I hate to judge too quickly but it appears you’ve eye-dentified the wrong group as eye bulging types. 👀
Footnote: I almost stopped reading the post when I saw the poster “has been involved in the hobby for over 40 years.” It’s kind of a tip off of what’s to follow. 😬
The point of this thread is about overpriced tweaks.... Most of the selling tweaks are overpriced... Ridiculous? that is impossible to say if you do not try it...My opinion is replicate at low cost for yourself the basic principle behind tweaks that are evidently useful or tempting to try : tweaking an audio system against mechanical vibration, tweaking the room acoustically, tweaking the electrical system of the house, tweaking with unexplained experience that give positive results is fun I make it happen at very low cost....
If the point of this thread is dividing people in 2 entranchment, this is not useful...My audiophile experience is at the end precisely this: all the tweaks I replicate at almost no cost or low cost, that’s what gave me the true audiophile experience of sound and music at the end.... Final results : I will not upgrade anything like I was dreaming to some years ago...
If it was not for this studies I made about the usefulness of tweaks I will always go with unsatisfaction... Then that gives to no one any good to speak about evident too costly tweaks.... What is useful is what is your experience with them and how to replicate them at low cost... This is what interest me...All the rest is complaining rant most of the times and reading them is loosing times...My best to all...
"While I do have to offer my compliments to the original poster for a fun idea, it was inevitable that the thread would descend into argument. Why? Well, speaking as someone who has been involved in the hobby for over 40 years, I've watched the lunatic fringe rise from Auntie Enid and Peter Beltto, to well what it has become.
Why would the eye bulging types invade the thread to defend that tweaks and gizmos and Audio Jewelry are the bee's knees? What do they need to defend? Can't skeptics ridicule the craziness that inhabits audio in peace? Well of course not. If you have something invested in that sort of thing, ridicule is not what you savor. Common sense is the last thing that you want to see. Consider though, as audio as we know it shrinks as a hobby and home theater and smart speakers dominate, think about the case we make to the public at large and the younger generation for the survival of the hobby. We have a good sized and mobile group, intolerant of dissent, that posits the most outrageous and laughable positions imaginable. It's bad enough that current hobbyists find the positions untenable, think about how that group looks to people considering the hobby. Inviting to newbies? I think not.
Wonder why the hobby is shrinking? Who wants to be part of a group that people make jokes about? Who wants to be part of a group that people laugh at? My compliments again to the original poster for a fun idea. I'm off to finish my cold fusion reactor."
A timely posting with many good points, eg -
Why would the eye bulging types invade the thread to defend that tweaks and gizmos and Audio Jewelry are the bee's knees?
What do they need to defend?
Can't skeptics ridicule the craziness that inhabits audio in peace?
We have a good sized and mobile group, intolerant of dissent, that posits the most outrageous and laughable positions imaginable.
Who wants to be part of a group that people laugh at?
Thankfully, as always, the reader, experienced or not, should feel free to make up their own mind regarding the intentions and validity of each and every post/ article/ YouTube clip etc.
Another useless tweak worth mentioning is 180 gram vinyl. Looks good on the sticker but usually has nothing to do with actual pressing quality.
While I do have to offer my compliments to the original poster for a fun idea, it was inevitable that the thread would descend into argument. Why? Well, speaking as someone who has been involved in the hobby for over 40 years, I've watched the lunatic fringe rise from Auntie Enid and Peter Beltto, to well what it has become.
Why would the eye bulging types invade the thread to defend that tweaks and gizmos and Audio Jewelry are the bee's knees? What do they need to defend? Can't skeptics ridicule the craziness that inhabits audio in peace? Well of course not. If you have something invested in that sort of thing, ridicule is not what you savor. Common sense is the last thing that you want to see. Consider though, as audio as we know it shrinks as a hobby and home theater and smart speakers dominate, think about the case we make to the public at large and the younger generation for the survival of the hobby. We have a good sized and mobile group, intolerant of dissent, that posits the most outrageous and laughable positions imaginable. It's bad enough that current hobbyists find the positions untenable, think about how that group looks to people considering the hobby. Inviting to newbies? I think not.
Wonder why the hobby is shrinking? Who wants to be part of a group that people make jokes about? Who wants to be part of a group that people laugh at? My compliments again to the original poster for a fun idea. I'm off to finish my cold fusion reactor.
I have no idea what is in the Gate Frank. PerfectPath Technologies do seem to have an "overabundance of enthusiasm" for that product. They say one thing that I suspect is true;
I kind of do like Elizabeth’s idea of using toilet paper spools to elevate cables. It does work very well. I’m a bit surprised that someone hasn’t taken the idea, added a bit of cryo treatment, some fake graphene to the inside of the spools and a secret, special coating to the outside and presented as the next new hi dollar audio tweak, It wouldn’t work any better or worse than plane old toilet paper spools, but with a healthy dose of hype and a bit of slick marketing - could, no doubt, sell them for thousands.......Jim
A $5k power conditioner to improve the picture of a rear projection TV? Does this mean that I could breathe new life into my Philco fridge, Zenith radio (6 transistors), and Admiral TV (color) with one of these babies? Would that be $5,000 each, or could I get by with just one?
All documented improvements are made with just one "The Gate," so you don’t need more than one. TV improvement is a side benefit as far as I’m concerned. The major benefit as far as I see it is the improved sound quality of my audio system. You most likely will have to turn the temperature in your fridge down because it will be operating more efficiently. No, it won’t affect your battery operated radio. Duh!
fsonicsmith ...
Yes, modern refrigerators have thermostats. See the response above to glow_worm. I don’t have air conditioning, so I can’t speak to that. On the overall electric bill ... My electric bill fluctuates so much during the year, it is hard to keep track. With every PPT product tried so far, including TC and the Omega E Mats, I’ve noticed an improvement in TV performance. I use mats under my satellite box and under the DVR, and I have pasted all of the connections of the satellite box, the TV and the DVD player with TC.
I can’t answer your question about my wife’s hairdryer. I don’t have a wife. I used to have a wife, but she told me one day that if I brought home one more piece of audio equipment or one more vinyl LP, she’d leave me ... and you know ... goshdurnit! ... I kinda miss her sometimes.
mitch ...
What seems to be hyperbole to some, is actually an overabundance of enthusiasm for the astounding results attained by PPT products, especially The Gate. You should try one ... 90-day return policy, remember?
On the pelican case. Look, this case brings an air of quality to a quality product. Think of the jeweler who shows you a fine diamond. He doesn’t just throw it on the glass counter-top. Heck no ... he sets it on a nice, plush, black velvet pad in order to show the diamond off in it’s the best light. Besides, the pelican case is the ideal size and an added bonus that can be used as an additional carry on piece of luggage in which to store your adult diapers. :-)
You seem to feel that "The Gate" is being sold for "many multiples of what’s in it." Evidently, you have some insight that the rest of us don’t have. How about sharing with us, exactly what’s in "The Gate," how it’s built and the total cost of production to produce just one "The Gate." I, like you, are curious to know that information too.
Most of the times people lack the experience linked to an audio system functioning at his peak potential... they bought to upgrade without never knowing the potential of what they already owns... then for them tweaks are only marginal in the final upgrading effect, and they called snake-oil practically anything, especially what seems too costly...For me I dont buy any thing costly and I tweak myself...There is no snake oil if you experiment by yourself...And for me all my tweaks gives more upgrading effect than buying another dac or amp or speakers...My amp and dac and speakers are already top of the line(relatively speaking for sure)…. My best to all...
Anyone else find an inverse relationship between the amount of hyperbole used to describe a tweak type product and the actual performance enhancement brought about by the product? How about a similar inverse relationship between the packaging used for certain products and the value those products bring to a system. For example, why would a device designed to be installed in your breaker box need to be delivered in a watertight Pelican case? Finally, add a mystical connotation by sealing the case the item is in (i.e., opening this case voids the warranty) and "mums the word" about what is inside, and then you have a product that can sell for many multiples of what you put into it.
It's hard to fathom that a $5,000 gadget that causes refrigerators to suddenly freeze up and need re-calibrating (which defies that fact that modern refrigerators have thermostats), causes home AC units to run 20% less of the time, causes impressive savings on monthly electrical bills, and causes projectors and flat screens to suddenly seem like windows into reality has flown so far under the radar for so long without being reported in every major peer-reviewed scientific journal. What effect does it have on your wife's hair dryer? Does she blow her hair dry 25% faster? How about your Christmas lights-do they go from boring to Chevy Chase in Christmas Vacation with pilots spotting the house from miles away? Utterly amazing. But it must be true, because there's a 90 day satisfaction or your money back guarantee goshdurnit!
Any manufacture or dealer that offers a 90-day no questions asked return policy is okay in my books. Why trust the marketing spiel when you can try it yourself.
Rule no. 1: It’s never a bad time to promote the products one uh, promotes. Smooth, Frank, very smooth. I especially liked the way you worked in the 90 day guarantee. A true professional!
"OregonCaliorniaPapaDoc-I will ask you one last time-what did you pay $5,000 for?"
One last time? I don't recall you asking the first time, nor do I recall ever soliciting your advice about anything at all. However, since you've made the assertion, I'll tell you what a person pays $5000 for when purchasing "The Gate."
The money pays for an improvement in sound quality not attainable in any other way. It virtually transforms one's listening experience. As a bonus, because it affects the circuitry in the entire home, it also improves theater systems. At this point, my 73" Mitsubishi rear projection TV's picture is absolutely stunning.
I honestly believe that one could spend many times the amount needed to purchase The Gate on other equipment such as amp, linestage and speaker upgrades and still not attain the heights brought about by installing The Gate into one's system. This device makes improvements I've not heard before in over 40+ years in the hobby. The silence of the system is uncanny. This results in a clarity never before attained, instruments with drastically improved tonal quality, and vocals with organic realism.
"Since you have such confidence in the value of your purchase, why not unwrap the package and find out what the heck you paid for?"
I'm afraid that you'll have to come to grips with the fact that there are those of us out here who couldn't give a rat's behind how something works .... only that it does. Seriously, I don't care.
"A bundle of nano-fibers or a bundle of cat hair or a large Russian vintage oil and paper capacitor wrapped up in squirrel fur?"
Obviously fsonicsmith, not only have you not heard the advantages of The Gate, but you haven't seen one in the flesh. Therefore, you haven't taken one apart to see what's inside. As a result, your above comment has no relevance to the conversation, and like you, has no credibility on the issue to boot.
My suggestion to you (and yes, I understand that you didn't ask for my advice), would be to contact Tim and work out a plan for a 90 day, money-back guarantee on any of his products (except the Total Contact) and try them out for yourself. If you find them to be bunk, then come back in here, or the Gate forum and say so. If they improve your system as I and other's have stated, then be man enough to go into the forums and admit to your utter silliness.
@tobor007 Anyone, being skeptical of snake oil, bust cream, sea monkeys, and magic outlet covers, yet still has to try them just to be sure, pretty much proves the whole point of this thread.
Just a few things I find a bit outrages, maybe even laughable: $25K cables $250.00 outlet covers $5K isolation cones $4K magic record clamps Not all, but most all, products claiming to use Graphene
TOBOR007 63 post 63 posts06-13-2019 10:21amI would say if you haven't used some of the extreme high end tweaks like audiophile rocks, please don't judge them. After all, I remember the once thought snake oil products such as snake oil, bust cream and sea monkeys were thought to be somewhat suspect. Perhaps, like many people, I was to quick in judging these products without trying them.
I think that you speak wise words...For the stones and crystals for example it takes me more than a year of experiments to use them and that transform my audio system...With other important method like treating the room adequately and using also Helmholtz resonators, without speaking of the control of vibration and cleaning of the electrical grid, nothing I had compare with before and after that...
The truth is almost everybody here had never listen to their own gear at his peak potential and many are unsatisfied because they dont know how to install and prepare, and treat, and clean and control all the components they own already and are unconscious of the many parameters that makes the difference between a good system and a better one using the same pieces of gear...That is my experience after 7 years of reading forums and reviews and experimenting...My best to you...
I would say if you haven't used some of the extreme high end tweaks like audiophile rocks, please don't judge them. After all, I remember the once thought snake oil products such as snake oil, bust cream and sea monkeys were thought to be somewhat suspect. Perhaps, like many people, I was to quick in judging these products without trying them.
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