What is turntable “liveliness”.

In Pindac, TA means ToneArm

@pindac

Thank you for your thought provoking post. I need to think about what you have written.

Also, what is a TA? 

Thanks for all your comments. Anyone familiar with the term “ lively” as applied to turntables?

@ossicle2brain 

Thanks for your comments. To answer your question, I think you need to spend time with some quality turntables maybe at a couple levels. The difference is like day and night, once you have heard the profound difference in sound, you will turn the question around and start examine the design elements that create these differences. 

FWIW, to appreciate most of the nuances of a TT system one must develop some serious listening skills, especially if you are dealing with high quality TT's and arms. Cartridges and phono stages are quite a bit easier to differentiate. IME audiophiles with those skills are few and far between, many are just plug and play types buying endless tweeks endorsed by merchants or reviewers! Or so it seems. :-)

That is for you to find out after you have compared a variety of TTs in your home system.  Speaking for myself, if you don't already "believe", it would be a waste of time to convince you, but I do think that your own experience will eventually teach you.  The trick is that you need to compare two like turntables (drive system, speed constancy, etc), perhaps two identical turntables, mounted differently from each other, in order to get the point.  So, a Linn LP12 is not a good starting point, because it is quirky in so many possible ways other than what we want to focus on.

So assuming a turntable has low noise and decent speed control, how can it sound any different than another with similarly low noise and speed control?  Using the same tonearms and carts of course.

@ghdprentice If you are able to detect a reduction in smearing, which I usually refer to as being able to detect Micro Detail, Micro Dynamics and a Envelope of a Note or Vocal. This is a valuable place to be when wanting to know how resolving the Vinyl Source is.

This detail production is extremely valuable and when perceived as being present, is a justification for the monies outlaid on various upgrades over time, or the extensive investigations and trials undertaken to create the perception.

During the development of a TA, I was party to, there was always a earlier guise at hand to compare the progressive works with. It was quite amazing at times, how a older guise, that had already seriously impressed and been instrumental in creating a change to ones own equipment in use, could be perceived as being quite wanting, as it was noticeably smearing details and the envelope, when compared to the latest design under trial. 

Note: The experience of producing impressive resolution is commonly found by working out the best mechanical interfaces and when something new and quite attractive is found, for most much of the investigation for betterment stops.

The Signal Path is a fragile necessity, and when the mechanical interfaces are close to optimisation, the Signal Path will be the failing for the realizing the full potential of what is already achieved for the resolving qualities of the source.

I have encouraged other to and have myself  worked with the Signal Path, from Wand Wire, through to Pre-Amp' and can assure anybody, that as a simple effort, exchanging the RCA Connection to Low Eddy Types on both Cables and Amp' Chassis, will allow much more to be perceived as a imagery, in relation the sonic produced, a veil 'will' be lifted, if the mechanical interface on the source is optimised, a treatment of the Signal Path will produce a Night and Day difference and the discovery will not be wanted to be changed.

Extend this experience to trialling different Wire Types and the personalisation to attain a sonic that really meets ones unique preferences begins.

My suggestion for a Wire Type and being a vociferous advocate for these wire types are well known within this forum.  

Yes. Turntables matter enormously as does the arm and cartridge. I am very aware of that as are most of responders. I have heard many turntables from $1K to at least $75K. 

                                 What @lewm said, +1

                                      It's a, "system".

                                     Holism matters!

I have been through Belt Drive, Idler Drive and Direct Drive TT's, of which I have come to settle with DD as my 'go to' design.

Additionally I have heard my TT in quite a few different systems where there have also been BD, ID or DD as the resident TT's.

I have no prejudice against other Drives, I have been impressed during my own ownership and through experiencing those owned by others.

I would say a ID TT, has it's feet firmly bedded in the substrate, and can be a experience, where the Bass Range can be very present, to the detriment of the MId's and Highs. I have experienced this to become much improved by the use of a off board Speed Controller, and have heard a range of Speed Controllers that are able to be quite perceivable on how they impact on the perception of Bass being present. 

Today I firmly believe the 'structure/materials' used for producing the TT and the method used to support the TT in the home environment are quite capable of impacting on the produced sonic for the better or the worse.   

Experiences have shown a certain design for a TA, that is quite a common design/geometry, can substantially inhibit the sonic and produce a subdued sound, that is seemingly on a leash/constrained. This in itself could create plenty of descriptions as an explanation for what an alternative and less constrained presentation from a different TA>TT can sound like.   

Disagree. Turntables make a big difference, but never to the exclusion of the effects of the tonearm/cartridge match. My listening experience suggests that the tonearm and cartridge should be considered as one. As a result, within limits of course, you cannot say this tonearm is better than that tonearm (if both are of high quality) without also stipulating the cartridge. Likewise, where two cartridges of similar excellence are concerned, a comparison is not believable unless they were auditioned in the same tonearm. On that background, the turntable has many additional important effects. The timekeeping function, just to begin with, should not be trivialized, because less accurate turntables are adding colorations due to their speed instability. In addition, the shape of the plinth itself and its build materials and its isolation from environmental perturbations have a significant effect on every aspect of the listening experience. 

No such thing.  It's an old wive's tale.  Or worse an audiomyth.    Turntables don't matter much.  It's the cartridge. and the tonearm.  Try a different cartridge.  Or tonearm.  

Turntable sound might be the biggest money-hole crock in all of audiofooleya. Move the vinyl at a somewhat steady speed and do it quietly.  All a TT has to do.   Then the tonearm has to do it's thing for the cartridge.  

Oh, this talk about turntable sound has gotten me lively!  

But looking at a real expensive TT does make it sound better.  It better sound better.