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What is turntable “liveliness”.

I have listened to turntables for sixty years. I bought my first high end TT about thirty years… it was revelatory. I do not swap tables often. I do a huge amount of research and then stay with one for fifteen years or so. My most recent upgrade was from a VPI Aries (heavy mass) to a Linn LP12 (light weight, sprung)…very nearly the very top level. Could we please not turn this into a religious thing about Linn… mine is an outstanding TT which compares favorably with any other $45K analog leg (TT, cartridge, and Phonostage)

The term lively comes up in descriptions. One of the differences in character I noticed between the VPI and Linn… which I thought might be considered liveliness was to me a bit of what I perceived as the images very slightly jumping around… the kind of thing you would think of when you see films of “The Flash” maybe vibrating in place. While I found this gave me the feeling of the notes wanting to jump out at me, I found it a bit disconcerting. I attributed it to a relatively light weight rig, that is really good at rejecting low frequency vibrations (it is a sprung table… known to be lively sounding) up to a relatively high frequency… but beyond that not. Something a really heavy rig would not be effected by.

 

To test my theory, I had a Silent Running Ohio Class vibration platform constructed for my turntable. The image smear, as I called it disappeared. There is no smear and it has great solidity.

Is this attribute “liveliness”?

ghdprentice

Showing 4 responses by ossicle2brain

ossicle2brain's avatar
ossicle2brain
106 posts
 

No such thing.  It's an old wive's tale.  Or worse an audiomyth.    Turntables don't matter much.  It's the cartridge. and the tonearm.  Try a different cartridge.  Or tonearm.  

Turntable sound might be the biggest money-hole crock in all of audiofooleya. Move the vinyl at a somewhat steady speed and do it quietly.  All a TT has to do.   Then the tonearm has to do it's thing for the cartridge.  

Oh, this talk about turntable sound has gotten me lively!  

But looking at a real expensive TT does make it sound better.  It better sound better.  

 

ossicle2brain's avatar
ossicle2brain
106 posts
 

So assuming a turntable has low noise and decent speed control, how can it sound any different than another with similarly low noise and speed control?  Using the same tonearms and carts of course.

 

 

ossicle2brain's avatar
ossicle2brain
106 posts
 

Turntables have no sound. If they do there is something wrong with it. If the definition of "turntable" includes the tone arm and cartridge then yes. To be fair I think that is what the OP is talking about and I’m just being argumentative as usual.

Literally all a basic turntable does is spin a record at a steady enough 33 1/3 speed with low enough noise like rumble and hum. If it sounds lively it may be spinning faster. Unlikely but possible.

The placebo and expectation bias is very strong when listening to a fifty thousand dollar piece of engineering art.

 

ossicle2brain's avatar
ossicle2brain
106 posts
 

Does a unmodulated groove or blank record make noise? Yes. It makes far more noise than any bearings on a decent turntable. In fact sounds like bearing noise. Or the ocean. The vinyl is never perfect. Then, is the album perfectly concentric? Is the hole precisely in the middle? It often isn’t. If not the speed is off.

In addition any small warpage of the vinyl causes sound changes.

I stand by my statement that any "turntable" (not the tone arm/cartridge which is light years more important to sound) that has a sound means that there is something wrong it.

In addition, between the imperfections of vinyl and the cutting etc the noise or sound of almost any decent turntable is not heard when the music is playing.

The placebo bias is strong with this turntable thing. The expensive ones sound better because we expect them to and they have great tone arms and cartridges.

 

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