I know there has been a lot on this manufacturer, but I just discovered them myself(today). I have never read so many positives while at the same time read so many negatives on any on amp(or any product for that matter). At the same time they are getting huge pats on the back from two different magazines? Could some owners of the Dk vs1 mk 2 offer there opinions that still own them, I maybe looking for an intergrated hybrid that has some power and this is the only one that seems to fit the bill in my price range. So...why the extreme positive and negative?!
hmmm...seems like I have heard that one before...what's the deal?...can't they get their QC under control? *Especially* for ones that are being sent out for reviews that will subsequently be public information?
Or, Ellery, maybe the sample DK sent to Stereophile was a problematic one and hence the poorer then expected measurements? And therefore this is the reason why the reviewer thought the DK could compete with amps in the $5k - $7K range, but not with amps over $10K as claimed in many other reviews? You see, the measurements correlate with sound quality beautifully...
speaking of "measurements"...Stereophile didn't seem too impressed...but then again...it's never to late to change your tune Audioari1...you can now switch over to the measurements don't mean S#%& camp.
Sorry Dgplo but i sold my Plinius 100-mk3 with a ML-32 ref and even a very good tube pre as well, as the DK was better in my opiion as well as others that heard it.so i totally disagree with you but it's all what people like.
best integrated on the market? look at plinius and chord, 2 companies which make integrateds at rought the same price as dk. Their amps which have a much more open sound in the midrange and a darker background than the dk...
Actually, music is a very complex waveform and so the ability of an amplifier to reproduce it is closely related to its ability to reproduce squarewaves. In essence we do isten to square waves.
Well, Audioari1, I half agree with you in terms of the square wave. Your comment on the Halcro is more in line with how I feel. I'll leave it at if an amplifier reproduces a square wave beautifully I can say that it defintely reproduces a square wave beautifully. Again, I don't listen to square waves...
Now, you keep on talking about "the" Jadis amplifier. I am asking you WHICH ONE? Not to back you into a corner, but you really need to convince me that you have actual experience with a Jadis for me to take this comments seriously
The DA30 that I own does not blow you back, but with my speakers (Coincidents and Frieds), I can push 95 dB out of it. Not exactly rocking, but louder than most audiophiles go. For that, I will say you are correct. The DK should wipe it up in terms of power and slam. Still, it's quite an authoritative little amp prior to running out of steam.
With my JOR, I listened at my normal volumes of 95 dB at my chair, which is over 105 dB at the speaker cones. With NO strain whatsoever at the amplifier. 110 - 115 at the speaker cone was probably where it began to go into what we call "tube blow" - where the sound gets wooly.
And, finally, with my DA60, I have no measured it yet, but I can tell you, it will play as loud as the biggest of headbangers demands, and I have not pushed it yet.
I feed my amplifiers a steady diet of Metallica, NWA, The Cure Mixed Up, Kraftwerk, and whatever else you care to name outside of classical music, and consistently produce 120 dB at the cones of my speakers with no issue whatsoever. I do this regularly whether I want to listen loud or not, as Bud Fried convinced me it is good for a driver, as it lowers its mechanical Q. I'm not the typical audiophile. I don't go any higher than that, but if you need more, please let me know.
I misunderstood me. I never said that the square wave behavior of an amplifier should form the basis of a buying decision for an audiophile and a music lover. The square wave response is only an indication of competent engineering and a good quality, well manufactured piece of equipment. It should serve only as an indicator that this particular component is worth checking out, simply because there is a high degree of chance that it might turn out to be a terrific performer. But of course, if after some listening the listener doesnt like the sound there is no reason whatsoever that he should buy this component. As in the case of Halcro, the company has terrific measurements but not everyone likes the sound of their equipment.
On to Jadis. I never said that Jadis was a bad amplifier. I said that the particular audiogon member who was looking specifically for an amplifier that has great bass, dynamics, lots of power, and good midrange reproduction at the same time. I think the Jadis is sublime at capturing certain types of musical pieces, particularly small scale quartets and closely miked female vocals. But I am sorry, it WILL fall appart on say Mahler Symphony #5 played at realistic volume levels or Tchaikovsky Overture 1812. Or any kind of high energy rock music, the Jadis simply will not keep up with the DK. Have you ever tired playing Metallica through the Jadis?
But ultimately I think the Jadis is an awesome amp and depending on the speakers and listening preferences it may just be the ticket for a serious music lover.
Audioari1, I'm still waiting for you to address my questions to you in terms of you trashing Jadis integrateds.
I understand and can appreciate your fondness for the DK product. While not in the camp that is anti - DK, I will also say that whatever measurement is thrown out as being relevant, it's the way a component reproduced MUSIC, and not things such as square waves, that means the most to me.
I don't listen to square waves, so I am less concerned about them then perhaps other people. If I'm choosing between two products, one that does a terrific job on a square wave then another, but the latter sounds better when I put music through it, I'll buy the second 1000 times out of 1000. Whatever people think of me for that is fine.
Now, back to Jadis. You disparaged the products in comparison with the DK. That's fine, if you have actually heard the Jadis amplifiers you listed, we just chalk it up to my audio mantra, "that's why they make vanilla AND chocolate." However, please tell me the actual Jadis pieces you have encountered, and what their issues were. Please understand that there are members on this site who do not sit back while products they respect, as you do with the DK, are pooh poohed. I listen to a lot of audio products, and have my own ranking for them. Most of the time, I understand personal preferences, but statements like the DK walking over the Jadis products you listed I think need to be fleshed out.
I owned an Orchestra Reference for 6 years, and currently own a DA30 and DA60. In the period that I have purchased the two I own now, I could have bought a DK, and while again, I like the DK, you see where I put my money. Briefly, in my own biased opinion, the list of products that play music better than Jadis is an INCREDIBLY small one. I admire the DK, and Larry Staples and I are friends (what a good man), but I'm sorry, I have to tell you I think the DK is not on that list. It's not trashing the product by any means, as I don't really encounter products that do beat the Jadis.
charlie101, I would bet a lot of people feel sorry for you. Have you ever had anything to say that was remotely positive on any audio subject on this website? I think everybody know's your opinion on this amp, there really is no need for you to post anymore on my thread. I would like to hear from people that have real world EXPERIENCE with the dk, and again if anyone has heard my amp(cayin ta-30) AND the dk, please give your opinions!
Snofun, my post was actually meant for Charlie101. In regards to specs, they definetly stand for competent engineering. In this industry there are people who will convince you that if you rub your interconnect a certain way that your system will sound better. So this brings me to my question Charlie, how do you determine that the amps on your list crush the DK? It is all based on whim, and this is completely subjective.
Finally, in regards to uninformed/uneducated audiophiles you are the best example of that. A flat frequency response definitely does not determine the quality or performance of a speaker since even the cheapest 50 cent drivers can be equalized to be flat. However, in order for an amplifier to put out a perfect square wave this requires it to act like an almost perfect voltage source, with an incredible fast rise time, and signal tracking accuracy. This does translate into better sound.
I challange you to find a cheap amplifier with a good squarewave response. You will see that all cheap and low quality amps have a terrible square wave. This is the one spec that really does tell you a lot about the quality of a component.
I still haven't trashed the product, notwithstanding your histronics. In fact, from what I see, I've said here and elsewhere that it's a good value new, and a superb one used. My reservations regard an ill conceived and absurd shilling campaign, of which you seem to be one of the principle proponents for many months now. DK is not the right answer for everything - honest, just get over it. Oh, and by the way, if you find yourself in Manhattan sometime, send an email and come by the office - best view in the city without question and other perks that'll boggle your mind. Well, maybe not your mind.
>>you definitely get the specs that you paid for, and this means that you are getting an almost perfect reproduction of the input signal<<
This examplifies how little you know. There are many speakers that measure perfect 20-20K and sound like sh**. Specs and statistics are for losers and uninformed/uneducated audiophiles. Know what I mean Vern?
Beyond the subjective listing tests and parts quality, there are also the measurements. The DK is an amp that measures better then most separates in the $10K - $20K range. Starting with the square wave response, have you looked at the traces? Perfect at 1kHz!
So while you can trash the sound all day long based on your "subjective" evaluation, you definitely get the specs that you paid for, and this means that you are getting an almost perfect reproduction of the input signal.
All of your attempts to trash this product can only be viewed as an alterior motive to accompish something that is beyond the scope of these threads.
Michael - I don't know anyone who said or implied that dk was above....
You must have missed these from one long time dk promoter -
"It is simply the best integrated amplifier on the market period. I think the VAC is the only contender that will sound better then the DK,... as it should be since it costs $20K"
Funny stuff indeed, and unfortunately so predictable. And some wonder why these threads go bad quick.
I don;t think that anyone said nor implied that D K was above and beyond anything out there. However comparing it to my top of line Gryphon seperate series which ran me $40,000, I can say that my experience with it at the show for 4 solid days was very positive and feel that the product is indeed a real value for the it's cost. We threw every type of music at in including some very difficult classical. You know why classical is not played at the show's much? Becasue the equipment cant do it well, so you get mostly slam, bam, wow music. The DK handeled classical quite nicely along with the WOW music. It's performance was stellar....Blah, blah, blah. That's all there really is to say.
Regards to all, Michael Wolff
PS: I find it very rude and offensive that some people think that all manufacturer's and members of the trade are here only for one thing...
when you say experience, do you mean posting nonstop negative comments? Or, do you mean experience as in listening to music? And where do you get this so called excitement from my comments? Look at my original post. So when you speak of experience I guess you MUST mean listening to music, I have plenty, I play three different instruments...my ear is very good.When anybody has said ANYTHING good about the amp you have promptly chimed in with something negative to say, whats your motivation? I started this thread because it seemed like a good deal on an interesting amp that had some strange feedback, still...strange feedback? I have been into audio since 1987 installing custom home audio that would sometimes get over a hundred grand back then....maybe a little experience, Charles.
Yes I've heard 2 different amps. Ordinary stuff-nothing more. I don't get your excitement unless you're new at this. If that's the case, with a little more experience you'll realize there's life beyond DK.
In my opinion,I enjoy the input of the manufacturers on the forums.If they get some free advertising,good for them. So Mr Wolff,Mr Staples,Mr Palkovic...etc ,you are most welcome....
Tvad, I agree but the power conditioner thing was a cheap and uncalled for shill. Your inquiry had nothing to do with that. Don't assume that new posters don't know the cast of characters either.
Charlie101, Do you mean the the musical, natural, and free from electrical component Viola power unit which I called the handy dandy box? Why I would never think of taking advantage of free advertising. :)))))))))))))))))))))
I'm not anti-advertising. I simply don't believe dealers and manufacturers should be using these forums to shill their products. Place an ad on Audiogon, use your website, do the shows, use the magazines, etc. if you want to promote. Hey it's my opinion; yours may differ, fair enough?
Tvad, actually the intent of our room this year was to demonstrate what wonderful sound one could get with what you might refer to as mid-range priced gear. We were using a older Music Fidelity CD player, the speakers were two way monitors a manufacturer called Olympic Audio. Very nice sounding speakers for $3,000. No capacitors used in the circuit and the stand was used as a port. Very nice sound. And of course there were some wires which I supplied along with my new handy dandy power filter, conditioner, box.
So that all will know... Daniel Khesin is no longer involved with DK Design, (now LSA Group)in any capacity. Also, I note some inquiries about our new products--if you have any questions please email me--all inquiries will get a response. Thanks for the kind words. Best, Larry R. Staples LSA Group President/Designer
""I listened 1/2 hour in store with theta cd player and 3 different bookshelf speakers. I think it sounds pleasant, not accurate...I guess thats how tubes sound.""
Does this mean that if you listen to a cello live its not going to be pleasant because the sound wasnt distorted by the tubes?
Probably people who feel it is more than it actually is. DK happens to be a normal, average, run of the mill audio manufacturer selling fair products at fair prices. No more and no less. No magic and no snakeoil. Good for them.
Here is an excerpt from a review of the DK VS-1 Mk. 2:
"The VS-1 MK 2 looks cool, but how does it sound? A few years back, I had the pleasure of reviewing the Gryphon Callisto 2100, and thought it was the best integrated ever. Its $5700 price was way out of my range, or it would have been on my shelf. The VS-1 MK 2 does everything the 2100 did, and more. In terms of dynamics, it positively threatens to jump off the rack. It immediately reminded me of the Callisto in this regard, but goes it one better, portraying more depth and musical dimension. This leads me to its second distinction—soundstage and imaging. The VS-1 MK 2 is the best amplifier I have heard in this regard."
So what will you say now Charlie Charles? Who has more credibility, you or a professional reviewer? How do you say with such certainty that those other amps will crush the DK? Maybe you need to sharpen your listening skills?
We used an older DK integrated amp in our room at the show. I was very suprised as to the performance of that unit. It just creamed a pair of nuforce amps. So much more musical. I understand the new DK integrated have been taken to a much higher level I would definetly try one if I was in the market.
If I were Larry Staples I'd change the name of that unit to "Acme" or something
Bingo. Despite the fact that they have an honorable gent a the helm, and have made genuine investments in the product line, the public continues to see DK as Jerry Lewis attempting to go serious. The only way to shake the previous mess is to re-brand the product. Just my opinion.
Hi Snofun3, I did read those old threads as I had gotten a mk-2 to try and wanted to see if anything was written on any of the sites.You are correct about how hideous and angry it got.Then again it seems to be the going thing these days.The only point I was trying to make is everyone likes something different and that doesn't make one product sound better than an other one.I have heard and owned some very expensive equipment over the long haul and find it refreshing to (albeit late) in the expense game.It's too bad that some people consider a person as a shill when they are excited about a product and are trying to be honest and helpfull.As I said before I don't believe there is a best in anything.Regards,Bob
Sean, sure got "catty" out there quickly,huh? What's with you guys anyway? Sheeet, be nice! Back to your original question friend- As an owner I say again, The DK does a great job. That's all. TURN ON, TUNE IN, ENJOY THE MUSIC!
I haven't followed this topic and have never heard dk products. What I have gathered from this thread is that creating a "BUZZ" might not be the best way to market high fidelity audio equipment.
If I were Larry Staples I'd change the name of that unit to "Acme" or something. The earlier DK lunacy has defamed what is actually a pretty good product by most accounts.
So with all of these considerations, the correct question is, whats right with DKs marketing?
Let me guess - you are in either marketing or advertising.
In my opinion, even those of us on the sidelines with no dog in the fight, were disenchanted with the approach DK took.
Clearly DK has succeded in this industry and you are most likely jelous of their success. As far as I know, the owner of DK sold the company to LSA Group and made a fortune. While you probably have a miserable job.
Bobf - Check the responses again - not much in the way of DK bashing, but a fairly open exposure of a shill campaign which was DK's previous owner's stock-in-trade. Some here appear destined to resurrect it apparently. Unfortunate that AGon deleted so many of the old threads, as they were a riot of absurdity. True that I like the Levinson integrated more, but the DK's a good piece - it was just a shame that the shill campaign was so blatant - it completely took away from what positive attributes the DK has.
And oh, Audioari, sure, the outpouring of comments regarding the piece is because of the success of the marketing campaign. Enjoy the delusion.
Hi Snofun3, With all due respect I don't know why your bashing the DK so fervently.Anyone that has come to my house thats into audio or not in the last 30+ years has not heard my system sound as good as it does now including myself.I have had numerous equipment from all Theta from the first to the 5b to AR all tube to Sim W-5 to my last which was the ML ref32 pre with a Plinius 100mk-3 and that all went after trying and getting the DK sig MK-2.So I guess it's all in the ear of the beholder or holders and there are probably better and worse but some of us understand that without ripping other peoples likes.Regard,Bob
1. You are implying with 100% confidence that DK forged all of those threads. Well there are lots of people in this thread claiming that the DK is an awesome amp and many of them have been members for along time and post on many other topics. Your argument does not hold up. Finally, how can you prove that threads and posts by new members are not valid. Sometimes, many new people go out and buy a product and post their experiences for the first time. 2. How do you know the wanted ads were false? 3. Whats wrong with dozens of repetitve ads? 4. How do you know that this dealer in Nevada was a creation of the owner of DK? What proof or evidence do you have? 5. The membership could have put DK to the test and DK could have politely declined. THere are dozens of other very well known manufacturers who make BS claims and yet I am sure they will decline to have their products officially reviewed by Audiogon members. 6. Clearly DK has succeded in this industry and you are most likely jelous of their success. As far as I know, the owner of DK sold the company to LSA Group and made a fortune. While you probably have a miserable job. 7. Most of the DK bashers have never heard the product and I suspect that some are competitors who lurk in these forums. 8. As much as you think that DK's marketing strategies were outrageous, they built up a network of 70 dealers and huge network of international distributors just shortly after opening doors. It usually takes other manufacturers many years to build up this kind of distirbution. 9. Fianlly, with the size and scope of DK's business, I seriously doubt that the owner of DK would be sitting here posting fake threads as this would not in any way impact the companies sales. Remember - this forum is for geeks and seriously disturbed audiophiles.
So with all of these considerations, the correct question is, whats right with DKs marketing? And how can other people learn from their success?
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