What is the best redbook CD player for 6K to 8K?

Let's not forget the Accuphase dp-65.

"Brent, I am in fact delighted you joined APL and that you are heading the company's transformation into a successful OEM. I did witness a marked reduction in public customer gripes on the APL forum over the last few months. and am confident you will be able to address the few residuals over the next several weeks. I also understand the need to purge the forum from old diatribes that were at the time all but festering. On the other hand, myself working for a large company, I do appreciate that the market communications specialist attempts to 'move things in a positiv direction' are most invariably perceived by the outsider as 'spin', or at least as artful redirections, and that this alternative perception is not of necessity flawed."

Guido,

According to the first part of your paragraph, you witnessed "a marked reduction in public customer gripes on the APL forum" since Brent came on board. In the second part of the paragraph, you quote Brent's intention to 'move things in a positive direction' in the context of your experience that perception of 'spin' is not necessarily flawed. The juxtaposition of these notions in the same paragraph by an articulate person such as yourself raised my eyebrows. Surely, you don't think this improvement at APL resulted from Brent's 'spin' and not from his substantive efforts:)

Best Regards,
John

John, reality is always more complex than we'd like it to be. There is no contraddiction in what I wrote. Brent has wisely introduced standard business management techniques at APL. He has raised customer satisfaction by introducing clear scheduling and customer service methodologies. At the same time he has very rapidly removed most traces of gangrenous discussions on customer service issues from the APL fora to 'move things along', as he said. While consumers would like to think the contrary, businesses do not survive by 'peaches & cream' alone. A small amount of draconian marketing communications measures are occasionally required to refloat an enterprise, such as pruning surface evidence of mixed past record of customer sat.

TVAD, the controversy seems to have started by a generic remark I posted on 06/14, which was not at all mentioning APL, nor it was especially written with APL in mind. While other modifiers took the high road, APL took exception to my statement. That was their right and they exercised it. So did I exercise my own right to pursue the subsequent discussion. A healthy debate between manufacturers and consumers can only benefit the hobby as a whole. The exchange between ALEX, Brent and I has been quite placid and urbane, and I hope relatively informative. I only regret that the three of us ended up highjacking this perfectly good thread with our side discussion. What do you say Brent and Alex, should we now retire in good order, pay for broken bottles and stools, and leave this particular watering hole in peace?

Before someone calls in the Audiogon MPs, that is?

Guido, If the changes made in the APL forum content reflect the emerging new reality at APL, why use the word 'spin' and 'artful redirection', which are pregnant with negative connotations. Those are not the phrases that come to my mind with a straight shooter like Brent. Perhaps, you didn't mean to suggest any negative connotations. In any case, in view of your previous posts on this thread, your choice of words raised my eyebrows.

Gentleman, I believe that we are all good hearted and intelligent enough so we can remain good friends, like always. There is no need for clever words war because it will take us nowhere.

Guido, you have always been very good friend and also respected member of the APL Hi-Fi forum. I have always valued your feedback and input very much. Now you are in love with the stock X-01 and I have nothing against that. I am sure that one day you will audition a NWO player and then we can have more reasonable and productive discussion on this subject.

As far as APL customer service and satisfaction goes, Brent Rainwater has made enormous difference. To say Thank You Brent even 1000 times will not be enough.

I'd also want to say Thank You to all APL family members for their continued support and faith in APL Hi-Fi!

Regards,
Alex

Thank you TVAD, you are correct, the discussion started on 06-30, not on 06-14. My mistake.

Thank you Alex, I will drink to that gladly!

My recent barbules aside, for which I apologize, I am truly happy that Brent is part of the APL tribe. A creator of your caliber does need and deserve a business manager of the same stature for the company to thrive and grow.
And yes, I do confess a little pride for my 60Lbs bundle of joy X-01 Limited. What ;utterly amazes me is that as good as it is, I fully realize there is already something even better out there, stock or modified as it may be. And the trend of rapid improvement in the digital arena will continue for the foreseeable future. . . mind boggling indeed!

If the creature were not so darn heavy I would likely take my X-01 with me in my next trip to SF. I would love to use it as a benchmark while listening to your NWO-2 creation, which has undoubtedly exceeded the X-01 Limited's already considerable musical prowers. more realistically however, I will wait for an APL tribesman to materialize in Austin with an NWO-2 in his system for some cheery cross-auditioning fun!

Your admittedly cantankerous friend, Guido

Hi Guido ,thank you for all of your suggestions and constructive criticisms. I value the opportunity to fine tune the Apl Hi Fi operation and I take all input seriously.

Thank you Brent, much appreciated! Guido

Hey Redwoodgarden, any news? How did the search end?
Or is it still work in progress? Just curious what was your choice or what did you like out of the units you auditioned.

I suggest to give the ARC CD-7 a listen before you buy in this price range!
This player is very musical without any digital harshness, very good 3d soundstage and it reproduces the human voice natural and engaging!
It is my favourite cdp at this time and i use it with outstanding belles 28a pre and two belles 350 A Reference monoblocks, speakers are SPTech Revelations MKII.
A comparison between CD7 and EMMLabs would be interesting, i couldn´t do that at my home untill now but would be very interested in arguments from people who compared both directly in one session!
Enjoy music and take care,
Ralph

Ayre C-5xe of course

I have concluded that the best redbook player for me is not what I expected at all. The best sounding CD player is actually a universal player. The Esoteric UX-03 is in my price range (maybe a little over) and is the best sounding player that I've heard. It's built like a tank so I know it is reliable; and it also plays SACDs and DVDs which is icing on the cake. I know that in the future if I want to broaden my horizons, the option is there. I foresee that the only other player I'll need is a highend Bluray player which will play all media with the highest perceivable detail. This is only a pipe dream at this time. For the here and now, Esoteric UX-03 will fit my needs.

The best that I have heard live is the new Chord duo, Transport + Converter, so real that seemed unreal.For sure the software and the class A rig helps.
Regarding the moddings issue the difference are the persons as human being, bad and goods.I´m having really big problems with Audiocom UK http://www.audiocominternational.com/, after 9 months I´m still waiting for my DVD player I payed in advance to receive only smoke. Bad people don´t go to heaven and for people with no dignity, sooner or later the bad reputation will do justice...I hope. But there are modders and modders, so I´m not shooting free.

Congrats Redwoodgarden! Just in case you missed it, there is an updated version of the UX-3 called the UX-3 SE. You will find details at:
http://www.teac.com/esoteric/UX-3_SpecialEdition.html

On the Question of the Ayre C 5X, i asked a dealer recently, how the CX 7e stacked up against it on CD alone. He said at a recent session with customers, they could'nt hear any meaningful difference. I presume some of you guys disagree and think the C 5X is ahead on red book.

If you buy and expensive CD player you are making a mistake in overlooking USB DACs. I have a Wavelength Audio Brick and blows aways most of the $4000 players out there. Ayre being one of them.

Honestly, do yourself a favor and give a hard look to Wavelength Audio products, they are second to none. Computer convenience, with Audiophile sound.

I am always concerned when heavy and expensive equipment is running the risk of being blown away. . . must be global warming or something causing the problem.

A Meridian 808 is a player which plays a lot better than a 390. Listen to it and you'll understand

Leonx, what's 'better' in this particular case. Pls do expand. G.

Investing in "heavy expensive" CD players right now is like investing in an tape deck when CD's were new.

Jc51373 - We understand your affection for the brick and related products. Certainly something that I think I'd like to check out.

But for now...I am even more hugely satisfied with my Upgrade Company DV-50. I have had an EMM CDSA-SE here for more than a week. The EMM is a very nice player indeed, but I like my TUC DV-50 much better. I am most pleasantly surprised.

Dbld...Thats a nice player! best of luck with it.

Jc51373

Tape decks made in 1980 were better built, better sounding and more beautiful than the CD players made at that time.

27 years later, many of those tape decks are collectible.

trust your ears and answer the question for yourself. it's a matter of trial and error. listen to as many players as possible and buy what you like. the opinions as to what is "best" cannot be extrapolated onto another person. you have a unique set of ears, brain and preferences.

Mrtennis, that is exaclty what Dbld is talking about. He had to hear it to believe it himself.

Cwlondon- really? Let's test your memory..Name me one or two that were on the same scale as a CD player at the time?

And quite honestly, it is not an apples to apples comparison anyway, so making that comparison directly is not accurate. I was simply comparing the purchase of a CD player now.

A USB DAC is something that has really created it's own class. But it is similar to CD in the sense there is a transport (the PC) which is more stable and incredibly flexible, and also in the sense there is a DAC. However it is has become a seperate of it's own, completely carved out from the chassis of the CD player chassis. Something we all know the value of. I am not trying to impose any opinions here, other than saying the CD itself is (to quote a phrase) dead, dead, dead. For a multitude of reasons...One being it was nothing more than a transitional medium in the grand scheme of digital playback. The other reasons we are all aware of, online music, iPods, iTunes, convenience etc.

Who knows though, in a year or two we could be describing USB DACs in much the same way. But one thing is for sure, CD's won't be revisited and to spend alot of money on one now only says one thing. You're not familiar enough with a PC/MAC to take the plunge.

A Meridian 808 has a more natural sound. A lot more weight and control in the low freq. Also it gives more texture and resolution comparred to a ML 390. And it has a better individual focus and more depth.

I am very happy with my Unidisk 1.1.

Jim, thats a great player...But when you move into buying another player consider a USB (or whatever interface) DAC.

The 1.1 is a great player...But when you revisit the market to buy a new front end, it most likely won't be a CD player.

Jc51373, which Ayre player did you have when comparing your Mac combo to it? What differences were there in the two units?

Used the Cx-7e...I wasn't so impressed with the Ayre, it was a nice piece, involving. I thought it sounded a little hollow compared to what I have now. Sounded tingy and pitched at times, no warmth. But the biggest characteristic I notice from that player to the combination I use now is detail. I get so much detail out of the Brick I am simply amazed. Today I went to a dealer to audition the Super 8's in an effort to get a more efficient speaker than my 804's. They hooked them up to some serious equipment. Nagra Pre Amp, Nagra CD player, Moon amp and so on...I gotta be honest, and I am the first to point out a weakness in my system, in fact I look for them. But I felt like my current set up in most ways, sounded better than what I heard today. I was with my friend and he agreed that he expected more, especially at those prices.

I also auditioned the Dynaudio Contour 1.4, and they were totally outperformed by the Super 8's. But in the end I am like the warmth of my B&W's, I know there is better out there, but I love the sound signature of B&W, it is what brought me into hi-fi.

I couldn't be happier with my set-up, so much so that I am upgrading to the Cosecant. Not because I am unhappy with the Brick-it is awesome! But I wanted a little more bass, and power, and the Cosecant matches my equipment better. Not to mention it looks great. Should have it in a month.

"The digital player I have owned that rendered the most lifelike 3D holographic image is the APL Denon 3910. It was scary.

Other players I have owned include Exemplar Denon 3910, Exemplar Denon 2900, Empirical Audio EMC 1-UP SE, Modwright Sony 999ES, Marantz SA-14, APL Phillips SACD1000, Shanling T200."

Hi Tvad - Did you have the latest version Exemplar 3910 with the tube output stage (please pardon the rookie-like question)? And did your APL 3910 also have a tube output stage (what DACs/how many, and what type of power supplies)? If so, did you compare the two side-to-side?

It would be great if you (or anyone else who has compared them) can please detail your findings, specifically in the SACD and/or HDCD performance of these two players. I just ran across this thread, but I will also do a search in case this info was shared previously.

Thanks & regards!

Tvad - Thanks for the detailed info. I have always wondered the nature of the sonic differences between these two players. One follow-up question: Were these differences consistent for CDs and SACDs? Or was there a more pronounced difference in one format over the other? TIA!

I wish the modders would give their iterations designations. Without that, it makes comparisons very difficult. Makes it particularly difficult for someone considering a used unit.

I owned an earlier Exemplar and now own the "latest" one (well, it was "latest" as of about 1 1/2 years ago). I found the first one too "analytical" in the treble; but the second one just about right. I have no idea whatsoever what the changes were to the player, however, or whether Tvad and I had similar Exemplar units. Just wanted to add my thoughts.

John Tucker: can you tell us the different versions by date? Or by some other designation?

PS1......