Sorry for getting off topic.
In the famous words of Arte Johnson: (this is all) "Very Interesting. But stupid!(?)" |
Seriously though, the Mars rover sent back pics recently of what appear to be sedimentary rocks formed by liquid flow (likely water) on the surface of Mars. Now that really is big in terms of increasing probability of life on Mars in the past and outside of earth in general! Can't wait to learn what is discovered there next..... |
I'm crawling back into my cozy neophobic hole now for a while...
I'm sure that black hole has some effect on my sound and there is nothing I can do about it...... |
As an audiophile, I think if its a cheap tweak or a free one, out of interest surely it's worth 10mins of your time?
We could go to and fro arguing about the philosophy, the science or lack of science behind the tweak, but in the end it either works for you or it doesn't.
Otherwise it's a Mexican stand off. The stand off in my opinion is worthless posturing. Into the breach dear friends... It should be fun. Worst case just listen to some music and prepare harsh words for the vendor.
Something definitely happened with the PWBELT stuff I tried. I cannot explain it. But even if it was all in my head and friends head it was still good. As for the rest of them theres only one way to find out. |
Geoffkait,
Altering the sound on CDs with pens is well-known. And the fact that sound is altered by everything in the room is also well-known. But when we begin to indulge in the vague and mysterious for the sake of being vague and mysterious -- as though these factors supersede the obvious things in our audio systems -- then we begin to enter The Audio Twilight Zone. I think we have enough on our hands trying to figure out our components and cables and "tweaks" and room treatment. |
Mapman wrote,
"There are some people who believe the heavens revolve around the earth. That's pretty obvious right? Just look at at the sun (with filters) or night sky...."
At the center of almost every galaxy, including our own, there is an enormous Black Hole with the mass of a billion suns.
That's pretty obvious, right? |
Ok.
There are some people who believe the heavens revolve around the earth. That's pretty obvious right? Just look at at the sun (with filters) or night sky....
YOu're still not helping me Geoff.... |
While we're on the subject of things that go bump in the night and ideas that might be construed as delusional, let me draw your attention to the Red X Coordinate Pen for a moment. This review of the Belt's Red X Coordinate Pen appeared in Positive Feedback. Enjoy!
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue1/beltpen.htm
In case you missed it, Cream Electret, another Beltian product based on the premise that our hearing acuity is degraded by certain objects, images and information/media, was reviewed recently in both Stereophile Magazine and Enjoy the Music.
Cheerio |
Bryoncunningham,
Well, to tell you the truth, I agree completely with your statement that "This idea is crazy."
Let's examine carefully Geoffkait's statement: "What you are hearing is a distorted, compressed, noisy facsimile of what is actually coming from the speakers."
Distorted by what?
Compressed by what?
A facsimile that comes from what source?
Geoffkait's statement is what I would call GOBBLEDYGOOK. Plain and simple. Nonsense talk. |
Geoff is like the anti-Almarg (sorry to bring you into this Al). I'm not sure that is a good thing.
Al has deep technical knowledge in areas that are well documented and communicates clearly and consistently in a manner that I seem to understand. Also Al is not a vendor TTBOMK.
Geoff seems like a smart guy with some knowledge but I cannot seem to discern much useful from him. The explanations I read or hear from him make little sense. He insults and belittles me from time to time questioning my knowledge and calling me a neophobe and such but hey, that's OK, I have thick skin and have not always been nice to him or his products either. I would like to be able to understand what he is talking about before I discard what I already think I know as he suggests. I think that is a reasonable thing to ask. |
"In a medical sense, this strange idea could easily be considered delusional perception, i.e. the misattribution of a non-hallucinatory perception to objects or events to which they are utterly unrelated."
That's one explanation, but I do not think so.
Another is that GEoff really knows something that others do not.
ANother is that it is a form of obfuscation.
Maybe others.....
Only Geoff knows this for sure like so many other things apparently. |
09-27-12: Geoffkait
You can't hear the sound you worked so hard to get, the sound that's actually there in the room, because your sensory perception is hurt by the objects, patterns, images, and information - books, CDs, DVDs, telephone books, etc. - in the room. What you are hearing is a distorted, compressed, noisy facsimile of what is actually coming from the speakers. This idea is crazy. I mean that in a colloquial sense, and in a medical sense. In a colloquial sense, this strange idea is so far outside the scope of common sense and recognized scientific explanation that it is impossible to take seriously. In a medical sense, this strange idea could easily be considered delusional perception, i.e. the misattribution of a non-hallucinatory perception to objects or events to which they are utterly unrelated. The cause of this strange idea, and ones like it that appear on other threads, is a mystery. Bryon |
Chad,
I know you to be very open minded!
If anyone can convince PettyOfficer to like computer audio, its you!
Now the ultimate challenge.....trying to get some useful information out of Geoff....
Do take note of GEoff's warning about your brains spilling out! I did find that useful!
O-O
\_/ |
Geoff,
I tried the bowls. While they did do something it struck me as a very expensive way to get a little more sparkle in the treble and a slight change in soundstage.
I have the Schumann generator in the flavour of the RR77. It is a strange one. It can do things. But recently I noticed I doesn't do as much as it did.
It used to give me butterflies and a slight headache though. At best it cleans up the sound a little. Slightly wider soundstage if placed up high (2m) and centrally between the speakers.
Bass traps are very room dependent, but tighten bass and allow imaging to be clearer. Mixed with some diffusers can take you far. Further than those silly bowl resonators... |
The thing is, with my OHM speakers in particular, you get a large holographic sound stage wall to wall out of the box with most any decent placement. The location can be tweaked significantly then to optimize the focus. Then there are 4 3-way level adkustments on each speaker that provides 1000's of potentially different sounds/tweaks from there. Add the right amp, a decent pre-amp and the right ICs and you are pretty much done. |
The uprights on my new elliptical training machine somewhat resembles a Shakti Hallograph. IT got me thinking if it might be affecting the sound. Too heavy to remove for a/b testing though, so I will simply ride the thing and live with whatever its effects may or may not be. If I like it, I may add a treadmill next. |
So, tell me, anyone have any luck, Holographic Sound wise, using acoustic resonators? You know, Tchang tiny little bowl Acoustic Resonators, or his really tiny Sugar Cubes, Synergistic Research ARTS system, or the other newer copycat metal bowls from Holland. I suppose I'd include Schumann Frequency Generators, why not?, and maybe even the SteinMusic Harmonizer. Quartz stones from Acoustic Revive. There's also a large expensive bowl or bell that was reviewed recently that should probably be included, if for no other reason than to see the reaction, the name escapes me. How about tube traps? Beer Bottles?
Geoff Kait
Www.machinadynamica.com |
Since you are dealing with an electro-magnetic field, this may not solve the problem. Have you considered the possibility that the positive effect is being caused and not the negative one? In which case a glass cover (preferably pyrex) would serve you better. You just may have discovered a new tweak! Don't spill the beans.$$ |
My post about the ac mains cover plate was a serious one..always wanted one made entirely of brass. Just need to find a daring electrician.
Tom |
My goodness! You must have been cupping your hands behind your ears. Seems Mapman is way ahead of you. |
Geoff Kait wrote,
" I'm talking about objects, images and information that change your sensory perception."
And Mapman responded with,
"You mean like you?"
Good one. You must have had your Wheaties this morning.
:-) |
Mapman wrote,
"My true hope is that when I can forget what I know and replace that with whatever it is that Geof is going to teach me, I can get better sound for less via mind matter interaction rather than than my current cash/vendor approach."
Yeah, yeah... if a mind is too open the brain will just spill out onto the floor.
:-) |
(Geoff' quote)"I'm talking about objects, images and information that change your sensory perception, as opposed to anything that has a DIRECT effect on the audio signal ANYWHERE in the system - the power provided at the wall, cables or electronics, or the acoustic waves in the room. You can't hear the sound you worked so hard to get, the sound that's actually there in the room, because your sensory perception is hurt by the objects, patterns, images, and information - books, CDs, DVDs, telephone books, etc. - in the room."
Sebrof asked,
"Geoff - How did you come to this realization, IOW why do you believe this is so?"
Experimentation, the foundation of scientific discovery. |
This thread is starting to become fun now. Lol!
Mapman I hear you. I do remember a few times at college when toast was a luxury. I had hoped never to go through that again!
Nothing wrong with being cheap. I guess the only worry is which college will they go to where the $20-$30 will be noticed?
Csontos, the tweaks phased all my equipment out into another dimension leaving only the cables. The cables do sound quite good on their own as long as I think they sound good and im wearing my quantum hat |
Cup your hands behind your ears when listening. BEst tweak ever! Guaranteed, no doubt. Cheap too! IS there something I can buy to reproduce that and still keep my hands free? Might be quantum even. Dunno... |
I replaced the ferrous plate in my head with one of brass and now everything sounds harmonius. This one tweak supercedes all other tweaks either singularly or in any collective random dis order. Anywhere I go there I am. Tom |
Why don't you just get rid of your system altogether. Chad probably doesn't have one either, just the cables and tweaks. |
When I remove the ferrous metal cover of my ac mains box that resides within my listening room the audio playback is improved. When I put the cover back on the sound changes slightly for the worse and the stage shrinks. Tom |
Mapman, get your thoughts together. Okay, now I'll read your responses. |
If you clean all your connector/connections with a chemical cleaner and then try the fuse are you hearing the effect of the fuse or the cleaning? Or both?
Research regarding cognitive processes is increasingly showing that facts don't matter. We interpret new data points based upon our preconceptions. So if you believe a tweak will work, it's more likely that it will "improve" your system. And vice versa. |
My true hope is that when I can forget what I know and replace that with whatever it is that Geof is going to teach me, I can get better sound for less via mind matter interaction rather than than my current cash/vendor approach. |
Chad,
I'm pleading the ignorance is bliss plea for now regarding fuse replacement for the purpose of tweaking the sound.
When the time comes to replace a fuse, I will consider your recommendation. No doubt a good cleaning done right and a good quality replacement fuse can only ever help. I might be willing to drop $20-$30 bucks on a fuse at that time when there is a need, but as may know I can be notoriously cheap and stubborn sometimes, especially when there are still 2 kids to send to college. |
Mapman my old friend,
Why don't we have a tweaking session and report back. Choose a cheap tweak. I'm going to give that "chip" a try.
Did you ever try the Hifi tuning fuse in your ARC Pre?
If not I would highly recommend some deoxit and clean all the contacts with it, including inputs, outputs, tubes pins, and the fuse holder then try the dreaded fuse. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
I saw parts connexion have a sale on so you may save a few $.
I am going to try a little more left field... |
I'm talking about objects, images and information that change your sensory perception, as opposed to anything that has a DIRECT effect on the audio signal ANYWHERE in the system - the power provided at the wall, cables or electronics, or the acoustic waves in the room. You can't hear the sound you worked so hard to get, the sound that's actually there in the room, because your sensory perception is hurt by the objects, patterns, images, and information - books, CDs, DVDs, telephone books, etc. - in the room. Geoff - How did you come to this realization, IOW why do you believe this is so? |
GEof,
I know you are a vendor, but its really not right to point out these problems without offering a solution. IT sounds like you know this stuff and have some solutions. IS it your products? Just be forthcoming and tell us how to solve these problems that it would seem most are not aware of. I need answers. Otherwise, you know the saying, ignorance is bliss.... I honestly believe that sometimes! |
My sensory perception is what it is, I think. Maybe I could ask a doctor how to improve it. Or maybe it just is what it is. Like a barrier island. You can fight mother nature with jetties, dredging, etc. but mother nature will win in the end. It is what it is? At least last time I checked I do not have any telephone books in the house thanks to the internet. |
"You can't hear the sound you worked so hard to get, the sound that's actually there in the room, because your sensory perception is hurt by the objects, patterns, images, and information - books, CDs, DVDs, telephone books, etc. - in the room."
GEoff, seriously, what do I do to hear the sound I've worked so hard for? Please tell me where to put all that stuff correctly! I think you must know something you are not telling me. Its not fair to scare me like this and not help if you can. |
GEof, In the interest of better sound, I am willing to consider changing the way I think. Please tell me what I should be changing to. I am afraid to let go of everything without knowing where to go. Does that make me a bad person? Please help! |
Geoff, please tell me what I should think! I am now so confused..... |
"What you are hearing is a distorted, compressed, noisy facsimile of what is actually coming from the speakers."
Really?
Help me please! |
" I'm talking about objects, images and information that change your sensory perception"
You mean like you? |
"Have you ever considered it might be time to change the way you think. "
Have you? |
Mapman wrote,
"Again, to me, anything that changes the sound is a tweak. Changing DAC, amp, IC, power source are all tweaks to help achieve a desired goal. But not all tweaks are created equal some do nothing except change the way the user thinks, perhaps the mind matter interaction that Geoff is so fond of touting."
I'm afraid you're confusing tweaks with modifications or even upgrading components. Have you ever considered it might be time to change the way you think. Time to throw away all those McGuffey Readers and high school physics books.
Mapman also wrote,
"I also have no doubt that placing certain objects close to electronic circuits may very well have an effect."
Nice strawman argument but that is NOT what I'm talking about at all. I'm talking about objects, images and information that change your sensory perception, as opposed to anything that has a DIRECT effect on the audio signal ANYWHERE in the system - the power provided at the wall, cables or electronics, or the acoustic waves in the room. You can't hear the sound you worked so hard to get, the sound that's actually there in the room, because your sensory perception is hurt by the objects, patterns, images, and information - books, CDs, DVDs, telephone books, etc. - in the room. What you are hearing is a distorted, compressed, noisy facsimile of what is actually coming from the speakers. Relatively speaking, of course. You're used to it, so you believe that everything is as it should be. This is the big secret! Lol
"It's what I chose to believe". - Dr. Shaw in the movie, Prometheus |
FWIW, I added an elliptical training machine to my larger listening room where my large OHM F5s reside yesterday. I had to do some significant re-arranging of furniture including a large cushioned couch. THe speakers remained where they are and have been for months now. Yes, the sound changed! I am of the opinion that any change to what resides in a listening room effects the sound. The only question is how much and in what way. Some effects are so small however as to not be noticeable or significant, at least to human ears.
I also have no doubt that placing certain objects close to electronic circuits may very well have an effect. Again the questions are how much, what is the change, and is it for the better or worse or perhaps even a mixed bag. I suspect the third case is the most common, ie many well designed tweaks produce a combination of both positive and negative effects. However, the mindset initially is to listen for anything that might be different as positive. Over the long term, the assessment might change as our thought patterns change. More mind/matter interaction..... |
"For my system "tweaks" are much more than fine tuning. They are as important as components and often have as great an effect as changing a component."
No doubt, tweaks can have a large effect as much as anything. I observe this as well with simple IC changes for example.
Again, to me, anything that changes the sound is a tweak. Changing DAC, amp, IC, power source are all tweaks to help achieve a desired goal. But not all tweaks are created equal some do nothing except change the way the user thinks, perhaps the mind matter interaction that Geoff is so fond of touting. |
Every time you guys argue my treble becomes a little better |
|
Csontos wrote,
"You mean Psychic, don't you?"
I knew you were going to say that. |
At least he's entertaining. Not enough to spend any money on anything he says, but amusing nonetheless. |
You mean Psychic, don't you? |
