dont give up on the apogees , almost impossible to top
What can come after Apogee Divas ?
I had started a similar thread in 2002 when I moved from Europe to the US and thought I would have to leave my Apogee Divas behind that give me so much pleasure for years (with active cross-over, run with 2 Krell KSA-300S Stereo amplifiers). But I managed to bring them over and so continued to enjoy the huge sound stage and clarity of these ribbon speakers. I listen both to classical 2-channel music, but also run a 10-foot screen 5.1 movie system and multichannel SACD with these speakers as 'mains' (and Duettas in the back). Now they show some signs of 'aging' with a slight rattlling sound when brass intruments are reproduced at higher volumes.
Where should I go from here if I cannot find help with their recalibration/repair? SoundLab U1? JM Lab Utopia Nova? Quad ESL-989? Dynaudio Confidence C4 or Evidence temptation? Martin Logan Prodigy? Wilson Audio MAXX or Watt/Puppy? Thiel CS5i or 7.2? Wegg3 Lunare 1? Krell LAT-1? What is likely to give a similar performance to Divas in a large media room and is more 'future proof'?
Where should I go from here if I cannot find help with their recalibration/repair? SoundLab U1? JM Lab Utopia Nova? Quad ESL-989? Dynaudio Confidence C4 or Evidence temptation? Martin Logan Prodigy? Wilson Audio MAXX or Watt/Puppy? Thiel CS5i or 7.2? Wegg3 Lunare 1? Krell LAT-1? What is likely to give a similar performance to Divas in a large media room and is more 'future proof'?
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I owned Divas for years and they could be wonderful. But, they are extremely fragile and hard if not impossible to repair with the company long gone. There are some people making midrange and tweeter ribbons but you have to be able to put them in yourself. No big loss ESLs are better anyway. rogerwalk, I know exactly what you were listening to. Get a set of SoundLabs Majestic 845s in ultimate frames. You'll want them straight black because you are using them in theater also. You will never look back and these speakers are indestructible. I have a pair of ESLs that are 30 years old and they look and sound just like new. You will have them for the rest of your life. |
Room is 20 by 20 with a vaulted ceiling starting at 8 and ending at 12(all foot measurements). Dave, thanks for your input. I had the Wilson Grand Slamm mk2 before my Trios. Not my cup of tea, they lasted 3 months and were sold.I am confused as to what amps you use an you Duettas.Drop me an email at hifipf@hotmail.com Peter |
Well, I've had my Apogee D. Sigs for a while, (had a pair of the small hybrids first). I'm so happy with them, that I almost never go out and listen to other speakers...I did listen several times to one $16,000 pair around two years ago. They sounded very good, maybe as good as my Apogees in some ways (they were HUGE hybrids)...they did not sound better. Of course they were at the dealer...and my speakers were at my home, not really a fair comparo. The Diva is a better speaker than mine, I have an old Krell setting in reserve for the bass panals of a pair...I've had many thoughts of moving that way myself one day...maybe you'll go back to horns, HeHe I hope you have a fairly large room...makes a huge difference with fullrange Apogees if you intend to milk them for all they can give. Best of luck...enjoy Dave |
I will stick with tubes. Hi Seirra will be shipping the Divas to me in May. I will move out the Avantgarde Trios and start a new adventure. I have not had a panel scince my Sound Lab A1 and A2 days. Too many problems made me sell and go to the horns. I am hoping that a dated technology such as the Divas can stand the test of time. Planers are unique in that they can hang with the best, the old quads prove that .. Peter |
Hi Peter The Diva, and latter Apogees...Duetta Signatures, Caliper Signatures, ect... are not like many of the early models...they are more tube friendly. The Jadis will play them without problem, it may not play them loud enough for your tastes however? My 120 watt Rogue Audio tubed monos play my Duetta Sigs without strain, up to the highest spl I care to listen at...I'm sure that would not be loud enough for some others though?... I was using Krell. If you like your music fairly loud (85-95db range)...I'd move up to larger tube amps if I were you...VTL, ARC, Wolcott, any good tube amp (s) of your choice at around 200 watts a side should do a fine job with the Diva. Dave |
I have a defy 7 mk3. Is there a chance I would get good results using this amp only? I really do not want to mess around with biamping. I do not own a Dax.If not, are there any tube amps with reasonable output tube numbers that would drive these speakers? I am being told that I need a Krell, Perraux,Threshold etc. to make these speakers sound right. Thanks, Peter |
Hello there, i have had Scintillas, have DIVAS, Calipers, Duettas and own Apogee Grands. The Fullrange comes next but needs huge power. My buddy runs them fully active with 6 Krell KRS200 amps ;-) After that comes nothing for a long time. If you find a set of Apogee Grands in the US, buy them and never let go. I thought of switching from Grands and contemplated Genesis 201, 1.1, Soundlab U1 and others but one evening with the Grand and your screwed again. Dont give them up, Apogees are simply "The Apogee of Sound" :-) |
I've had Divas. They were great for it's time but it was extremely phasey and metallic sounding. Obviously, I am biased as I own one but the best speaker I've heard is Dynaudio Evidence Temptation. I simply love these speakers. The best speakers I've ever owned and I owned many. Started with Martin Logan CLS, then SoundLab A1, then Apogee Divas, then Duntech Soverign 2001s and more recently MBL111Es. Best move I made was when I traded MBL111E speakers for these. Tmptation speakers are simply amazingly accurate from top to bottom with unbelievable out of the box and immense soundstage, precise imaging, detail, fast transient speed and settle time, completely transparent, and extremely musical and emotionally involving speakers that you can truly immerse yourself into the music. You need good fundamentals and associated equipment to make these speakers realize its full potential. For instance, I thought I needed a subwoofer with these speakers because my room is huge and was not getting bass below 30 hz. Wrong. I put in 8 dedicated isolated ground 10 AWG MC cryo treated cable 20 amp rated(35 amp capable) lines with hospital isolated ground Hubbel 20amp IG8300 cryo treated outlets. When I did this, my MBL9007 reference 440Watt mono amps suddenly had enough juice to provide the deep bass with weight that I was looking for. The clean AC line also provided vanishingly low noise that removed layers of veil that I didn't know I had and made the music extremely dynamic as in live event. Now I hear every little change I make to the system. I just can't believe that you can hear so much differences in the quality of power cables, speaker cables, interconnect, and every little tweak such as vibration absorption tweaks on equipment, power amps, etc. I am having to upgrade all my cables as I truly am hearing huge differences depending on what I use and there seems to be synergy inter related with electronics. But one thing I know for sure is that Evidence Temptation is not the one to blame as it is truly faithful to the music. Case in point. I had Cardas Golden Reference speaker cables and power cords that I thought that was excellent when I compared to other designs. However, I was noticing that Maria Callas voice was somewhat splitting in her upper registers and I thought it was the fault of the Esotar tweeters. Not. I replaced Cardas power cables with NBS Statement power cables retails for $3,000 each and Kubala-Sosna Emotion speaker cables retails for $3,900. This combination got rid of this phenomena completely and made music much more coherent and harmonically rich and immensely more enjoyable to listen to. This weekend I'm going to try the top of the line Tara Labs Omega and next to top 0.8 speaker cables and also have scheduled auditioning of Pranawire. I have previously chosen before AC improvement, Cyberlight P2A interconnects which sounded the best. But I'll have to try Tara Labs Zero again as I might hear the difference this time. So, it is plainly evident to me that Dynaudio Evidence Temptation keeps on improving as the associated equipment keeps on improving. I can confidently conclude that Evidence Temptation is not the limiting factor to scaling the highs of audio nirvana. The better stuff I throw at it, more amazing the speaker sounds. This phenomena was definitely not the case with previous speakers Ive had. Kudos for Dynaudio to have designed such wonderful speakers. |
There are some alternatives, but you might regret selling them. For example, how often a pair of Scintillas come up here. When they do, watch how fast they dissapear, usually less than a day and 50 views or so. I'm not downing other speakers, but Apogees are very special, really wish the company would make a come back. |
You can repair yourself or have the work done for you if you would like to keep them. Info. and repair link: http://apogeespeakers.com/ Also, as mentioned above....the new Classic built by Graz is an option if you would like to by new. Info. on the Classic can be found at the above link, along with a link to the Apogee forum. Dave |
Go to www.apogeespeakers.com. This site contains info about all Apogee speakers. It also contains a ling to the APogee users group, which contains a wealth of information on Apogees. There are several sources of replacement ribbons. One vendor, Graz of Australia, is also making a new line of ribbon speakers based on Apogee designs taken to the limit. Your Divas still have plenty of support. |
Don't abandon your Apogees! Go to: http://audioworld.com/cgi-bin/sw/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Apogee+Acoustics+Users+Group&number=1&DaysPrune=45&LastLogin= for the Apogee user's group. I have replaced my Stage panels with better than original replacement parts from Graz. Graz of Australia supports all Apogees and Robert Dragunas in the Unites States. I think Graz also now has a support and repair network in the US, E-mail him at: graz@graz.com.au |
Apogees are a very tough act to follow, as obviously you appreciate. Well since I'm a SoundLab dealer, my suggestion will be pretty predictable. I do count a few former Apogee owners among my customers. Depending on the layout of your room, it's possible that the relatively new Majestic might better serve you, or its shorter counterpart the M-1PX. These models have a narrower pattern than the U-1/M-1/A-1, which increases efficiency (by about 6 dB) but reduces sweet spot width. If your room is (relatively speaking) long and narrow the new geometry would work well, but if your room is close to squarish then the older, wider pattern geometry would probably make more sense. If you can use the new higher-efficiency, narrow (45-degree instead of 90-degree) pattern SoundLabs, that would be my suggestion for a succesor to the Divas in a home theater system. Now I'm not saying they'll outperform the Wilsons or Wegg3s at the things those systems do well, but staying within the realm of what the Apogees do well the SoundLabs are worthy contenders. If you have any questions give me a holler. Don't worry, I'm not a pushy rah-rah salesman type. Best of luck to you in your quest - those are tough shoes to fill! Duke LeJeune AudioKinesis |
There's still a lot of Apogee's in good condition floating around, just need to keep an eye on it. There is a Apogee forum somewhere, maybe someone can provide the link, that talked about where to get parts, I think from Australia. The other speakers to look at, didn't see it on your list is the Magnepan 3.6 and 20.1. Also check the Gallo 3.1, much more dynamic then the Maggie 3.6 and very holographic, although image height can't beat the large panels, don't let the low price fool you. Good luck. |