I own a pair of 803 Diamonds and prior to purchasing them was able to directly compare them to the 804 & 802 Diamonds in the showroom. For me, in my room, the 803 Diamond was the ideal solution. They have a very noticeable advantage in bass output and ultimate SPL capabilities over the 804 line and give up very little to the 802 Diamond.
For me, I went into the dealer with full intentions of getting the 802 so it wasn't really a matter of cost for me but after hearing the various models the 803 was a better fit in my room which is rather small at (12x9). The front firing port design of the 803 was the deciding factor for me over the 802 as it would allow me to position the speaker closer to the rear wall.
I am powering my 803 diamonds with a Pass Labs x250 which is complimented by a full Ayre front end and the results are impressive to say the least. I will be moving up to the x350.5 line at some point but not because they are under powered now but more to do with me wanting more Class A power.
I do not experience any of the negative affects mentioned previously in this thread in terms of of the speakers being too bright or to mellow. Please note, this coming from someone who sits only 7ft away from the speakers front plane.
If you want a speaker that is true to the source without added spices or false ingredients then you owe it to yourself to check out these speakers. |
I would love to finally HEAR the B&W diamonds for myself so i can come to my
own conclusions. My 1st high-end speaker was a B&W 801 matrix, and the clarity in the midrange plus the DEEP BASS response was hard to beat for $5K (New) IF you had some excellent components upstream. The treble was a bit hashy (not surprising given a lot of CD's available in those days and the technology available to play them). BUT LATER ON i got to hear the same speaker sound very different and MUCH smoother with an advanced cdp and Pass Aleph amplifiers.
SO it is difficult for me to understand why B&W has not advanced MUCH further on in developing an even more transparent speaker in 2012. Of course now $5,000 only buys the smallest 800 series loudspeaker in the line instead of the largest (the 805). If the 801 was the "audio end of the road" for a stereophile reviewer back then, and the 802D2 got a rave review a few months back in the Absolute Sound, they must be doing something right. Not that they don't now have a lot of competition, but over the years the competition borrowed an awful lot of ideas from....(B&W...). |
The original Nautilus speaker (snail) was introduced in 1993. The Nautilus 800 series was introduced in 1998. |
Never could warm up the B&W midrange in the 800 series. I'm guessing it's something about those Kevlar drivers that just sound kinda flat to my ears. They seem to lack the life and openness of other speakers I've heard in that range.
As for alternatives, I think the new Joseph Audio Perspectives would be very worth an audition, and with typical discounts should be right near the top of your range. Others I'd recommend hearing would be Usher CP8571, Vandersteen Quatro Wood, Merlin VSM, and whatever Nola, Marten, and Reference 3A have in that price range as well.
Have fun with your search, and best of luck. |
When did B&W start using curved speakers? I ask because i recall the SF Guarneri came out in 1994 and given their continued success (18 years!), i imagine they too inspired a number of curved speakers. |
Nishna:
The curved cabinetry was one of the features that attracted me to them in the first place. The 800 series is where this is employed to the highest degree. Go to their website and download the 800 series brochure. In there they show photos of just how complex the manufacture of those curved cabinets really is. |
Was B&W on the leading edge of utilizing curved surfaces (not a box) in their cabinetry designs? More product on the market from other speaker manufacturers using the curves it seems. |
I have owned (still do) 804s and 803d B&W speakers. I use them with Parasound JC1/2 SS amplification and I do find they are low impedance and power hungry. I find they need to be set up well into the middle of the room away from any walls. This reduces bass response somewhat so I supplement with a HSU sub.
The transient response is fanatstic in these speakers (if you have the amp power to drive them). Forget tubes IMHO unless you listen to chamber music at very low SPLs (or you have a megabucks/high power tube amp).
I have found the "d" version to be a bit bright on some program material such as flutes, high pitched female vocals, some horns/sax. Sound field/imaging can be very 3D depending on program material. Some material (like older rock) resolves into a center image and two side images focussed at the speakers. Maybe I have mine too far apart, but I set them up to minimize the upper midrange re-inforcement when they are too close together. They have execellent resolution, as I have heard/resolved sound like vocals/lyrics I had not heard before on other systems.
A note about hearing these in a shop. I have never heard a pair of B&Ws in an audio store showroom sound as good as when properly set up in your own home. This I think explains some of the love/hate response to these. I bought my 803d from a Bay Area shop who is an avid B&W dealer, yet they still sounded bland with flat soundstaging in their shop.
They also benefit considerably by using a solid wood plinth with heavy brass footers. These clean up much of the upper midrange brightness and tighten bass response considerably.
I think the mid range (804/803) versions are an excellent deal used. Not so much if you are paying full retail new. |
Thanks for the thoughts guys. I am going to try to make it to a few dealers in the next couple of weeks. |
Try to hear Aerial Acoustics and Vandersteen if you can. |
Audio store speaker? you obviously know little about their 800 series. |
It's what i call an audio store speaker...listen to other speakers
Not my cup of tea either |
I had to respond after seeing all the B&w hate. I really never understood it, maybe a case of envy? After all, Abby Road studios, Skywalker Sound, DG & London/Decca can't all be wrong.
I have owned the matrix series 2 since 1988. Around 2000, when the original 800 2 woofer series was introduced, I inquired about them at a well known local high-end retailer. He asked me if I was satisfied w/ my 801's. I said yes. He told me that he didn't think the increase in cost for the new model justified the minor increase in sound quality for me to upgrade.
Are B&W's ruthlessly revealing? I would say yes, which is as it should be for a studio monitor. So if your listening tastes are mostly popular rock and middle of the road type music, they are not for you, as they will reveal how the majority of current popular music is mastered severely compressed and loud and boosted in the higher frequencies.
I prefer to hear what's on the recording, good or bad. Every upgrade that I have made to my system has improved the sound of the speakers, and I feel that I have yet to reach the limit of my present set up. I'm sure w/ unlimited funds you could get better performance than B&W's, but at the lower price ranges, I would certainly give them a listen, and IMHO, would give most competitor's a run for their $ in terms of aural honesty. I also wouldn't believe what people say about lack of bass. It's there, you just need to mate the B&W w/ the right amp. |
B&W is definitely a love it or hate it type of speaker. Their gear is found in
many homes of audiophiles, but also in recording studios. Their fit and
finish is very, very good and their resale is phenomenal. Their speakers
have been used as a reference many times. So, for those that don't like
them, that's okay. Just know that for every one person that doesn't like
them, there are many others that do. I don't own them currently, but have
owned them many times in the past. I've always been happy with them in
whatever system I had at the time.
It's been said that the FST midrange driver they build is one of the best
around. Not all high end companies build their own drivers, in fact, most
don't. Sonus Faber uses scan speak. Sure - they "modify" the
drivers, but they are still going to be to similar to the off the shelf version.
Designing a driver from the ground up affords many opportunities not
available to companies who use other manufacturers custom drivers. |
thanks for all the responses guys. I have been reading lots of speaker threads here and B&W just doesn't get mentioned alot. I guess I can understand why now. My friend has the 804 diamond towers. I think they sound good but, I haven't compared them to anything. My town is too small and doesn't have any so called hi-fi stores. Just big box stores like best buy and H.H. gregg. They don't carry any of the speakers I am interested in. I have checked out the sonus faber cremona M online. They look interesting to me. I might have to find a dealer nearby and listen to those. I wish I could take them home and try them out. |
My thoughts are that b&w 800 series are awesome! When I first heard b&w I thought they sounded tinny with no bass. I was a paradigm man. This was around 1999 or so. I was using top of the line yamaha receivers and studio 40's then 80's and finally 100's. I still wasn't happy as I know a lot of us in this hobby are striving for excellence, always wondering what speakers in the magazine sounds like. Well my local stereo shop aquired the b&w line. They had the 805's 804's and the granddaddy the 802 d paired with mcintosh power c46 & mc402. I found after many years of listening to many different speakers, that I was someday going to buy b&w & mcintosh. And boy I did, and couldn't be happier. The pairing of these powerhouses in my opinion has brought joy back to listening to music. The refinement, transparency, low coloration, and soundstaging is beyond my expectations. So andyprice44, I wish you the best in your search for what makes you happy. It could take years, as it did for me, and a process of upgrades. It's been a blast. Cordially, |
B&W speakers got me into higher end audio. I always had decent low budget stuff from the early 80's and some time in the mid 90's I bought some DM602's and they were the best bang for the buck ever. I cranked those bad boys every day for 10 years. I think the 800 series are fantastic. Lets put it this way. What's the opposite of dry? Wet? Wet to me sounds like something someone would say who's never been to a live music event in their entire lives. Ive never been to a wet concert. Understand 90% of people on this forum don't go to live shows. Music wasn't intended to be recorded. |
On another note.. i like the way one poster stated the "for the price range" that was a get way to put it.... it seems that too many times people post the differences in speakers that are not only from different manufactures but also in different categories... alt of the comparisons are not fair to either side.. like comparing a 30k mustang with a 300k ferrari... you just can't do it...
Compare speakers in the same price category, in the same room, driven by the same equipment, using the same material...
if you did not compare the speakers like that then you did not compare.
Bill |
I use mine for home theater and i could not be happier... if you are talking 2 channel....well.... that might be a different story as the two channel guys are very particular about things... Some say wire changes sound others talk about raising their speakers up a few inches make night and day sound difference others have talked about adding foil to their amps and the sound changes... i personally don't hear the differences but again i use my speakers for home theater and i have not tried some of the "tweeks" and i usually buy used so the price for the quality would be a hard argument to make.
in speakers or set up or what ever i have found... that a quality amp "no names" just a quality amp makes a noticeable difference and a good processor makes a noticeable difference.
i am sure that ANY speaker would sound "bad" if not driven correctly and by quality components...
besides that maybe my ears are not as good as others.
Bill |
Manitunc, That was exactly what I read in the post when somebody went to buy B&W but listened also to Sonus Faber. He felt that B&W were more "impressive" but left store with Sonus Faber. |
B&W seem to be like Wilson in that people who don't like them really think they suck. Personally to each his own, tastes very greatly. I own a pair and am not going to change them out for a long time. They work well if properly setup, powered, and matched with equal level electronics. Basically you will get out of them what you put into them. They can be finicky with placement from rear wall as the bass will be muddy if too close. They also excel with higher powered amps. |
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On one audition, I remember my head flinching and turning to the side when some high vocal harmonizing sounded shrill. Rightly or wrongly, I attributed it to the speakers. |
Never liked them, as many have pointed out they sound "dry" and are uninvolving IMHO. Overall they are hifi sounding and not musical. |
In that price range, I find the B&W dry and a little bright. I would prefer Sonus Faber or even my PSB Synchrony Ones. Ariel 7t is another good choice. There are plenty of options in your price range. |
Andyprice44,
Clearly negative sentiment here for B&Ws. For 8K, picking up a pair of 801s or possibly 800s is still a ton of speaker in terms of range of sound. As evidenced above, you have to like it obviously. And they really need high power, high current, high quality amplification.
FWIW, my other suggestions (Guarneris with sub, 2905s, etc)...are speakers i personally would prefer over 800s, 801s. I have truly liked only 1 B&W speaker the 805 silver signature...and even that one, i had others i preferred for the money.
That said, its your ears. good luck. |
I remember Atmasphere making comment about 802 drivers. Midrange is 8 ohm but woofers total is 4 ohm at lower sensitivity expecting amplifier to double power. It won't happen with tube amp. It sounds like it is better suited for SS amp. |
have heard the 802D and found it to be overly warm and not especially detailed or open
I am not a big B&W fan and this did not change my mind... |
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I actually like older Matrix 801 S3 better than the newer series... |
Overpriced/unmusical/congested mids |
Not a fan. Trust your own ears. If you like them that's all that counts. |
I find them too dry to my taste but everyone's taste is different. You really should go by your own audition rather than others' taste. |
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1. Everyone's got an opinion. Yours is the one that matters most. Now that this caveat is out of the way...
2. If you've heard 804s and are still asking about 800 Diamond line, you've probably already decided you liked what you heard...good start.
3. Some observations about 800s. They need a lot of high current to really have the full runway to play music for you. High quality, high power, high current.
4. They come from a background of studio monitors...the treble can be quite precise, and one is not careful...might be a bit sharp...due to co-ownership?, Classe and B&W are often linked together. I have heard the match, and it is a good one.
5. Bass on the bigger B&Ws (800, 801, 802) take a lot of energy to snap properly...one of the first things to go if you have a weak amp is flabby bass...this speaker more than most.
Value for money...a big plus here. You get a lot of speaker here for the money...particularly in this day and age of rising audio prices for the new new thing.
For that kind of money, i would look at Quad 2905...but it wont have nearly the dynamic power/muscle, the SF Extremas or Guarneris...paired with a sub...very different from B&W...you'll get the magic midrange of SF plus big bass power. But the 800 will provide a very solid upper bass/lower midrange presentation that will be tough to beat with a smaller monitor/sub.
One man's opinion. Good luck and enjoy. |
