I did not want to post this as a full review as this is my initial first impression using the newly released Walker Audio Prelude LP Cleaning Solutions.
Prelude is a 3-step process consisting of enzymes, premixed cleaning solution and an ultra pure water rinse (made via a 7 stage filtration process). I comes nicely packaged with the following: a 64 ounce container of ultra pure water, a 16 ounce squeeze bottle of premixed cleaning solution, a second bottle of water in a 16 ounce squeeze bottle, an empty 4 ounce squeeze bottle, and a jar of enzyme powder, along with a small scoop and a slightly larger scoop.
Lloyd’s research indicates that enzymes in a solution only have a life cycle of 8-10 hours before they die off. By keeping the enzymes in a powder form, and only mixing enough to be used during a cleaning session ensures they stay active.
If you plan on cleaning 5-6 or so LP sides at a time (which is what I have been doing), use the small scoop in the enzyme powder. Place the powder in the empty 4-ounce bottle. Add some of the water from the 16-ounce container up to the “A” mark on the 4-ounce bottle and shake to mix. Apply to the pads of a cleaning brush and lightly scrub the LP as it spins on your RCM. Let it sit for 15-30 seconds and vacuum off.
Using a second brush, apply the premixed cleaning solution to the pad and apply to the LP as above. Let sit for a few seconds and vacuum off. Do not let either solution dry on the LP.
Using a third brush, use the ultra pure water as a final rinse and vacuum off.
I have had lots of experience with different LP cleaning products, including Disc Doctor, Audio Intelligent, and L’Art du Son. The AI solutions are similar to Prelude in that they also use the enzyme solution as a pre-treat prior to cleaning. The AI enzyme come premixed, unlike the Prelude. The enzyme powder formula of Prelude ensures that the enzymes stay viable until they are needed. I really like the AI solutions when I used them, and missed them when Paul sold the business.
That said, The Walker Audio Prelude is the best of the AI, kicked up several notches. Lloyd Walker has hit another one out of the ballpark. After cleaning several LPs that I thought I knew backward and forward, I can report the following: surfaces are dead silent, with no residue what so ever from any of the three steps. There is no static build up, and even well played LPs have that shiny right out of the sleeve look to them.
Focus, detail and transparency are the first three words that come to mind when describing what I am hearing. The inner detail on familiar LPs lets me hear for the first time things that have been there but never fleshed out of the grooves the way it is after using Prelude. At least, that's what MY ears are telling me. The music just leaps out from the utter blackness of the grooves. And, your records are REALLY clean. What else could you expect from one of the true masters of the analog arts? Who better to bring such a great product to the market for LP lovers than the man who builds what I consider to be the finest LP playback product in the world?
Give Lloyd a call and talk to him yourself about Walker Audio Prelude. I have no financial connection to Walker Audio other than the fact that I am a very happy customer and use many of their products in my system.
Kudos to Lloyd, Felicia, and Fred for creating another great Walker Audio product.
Tvad, I do not know the exact composition of the mold release compounds, but suspect they are a mixture of long-chain hydrocarbon alkanes. These can be synthetic or natural, like crude oil is a natural product. But either can be degraded by bacteria (synthetic or natural? it doesn't matter because bacteria are incredible chemists!). I do not know the nature of Walker's enzyme solution; that is his intellectual property. However, if I were to try to do this (try to remove mold release compounds), I'd start experimenting with the oil-degrading enzymes extracted from thermophilic bacteria. These enzymes are probably more (thermally and kinetically) stable than those sourced from other bacteria, because they have to be functional in the hot springs where the bacteria live.
Again, I have no inside information on Walker's system and hope that I did not imply such, so I cannot vouch for the safety of it or the sporicidin enzyme solution, as I haven't tried either. I suggest caution in first use: IOW, try it on Herb Alpert's "Whipped Cream and Other Delights" before trying it on your 1s/1s RCA stereo pressing of Reiner's "Scheherezade".
Re: the safety of Walker Prelude, I'm not a chemist but I do know Lloyd to be very down to earth and extremely picky about the finer points of everything he does, in this case, record care. I know it's going out on a limb but I actually do trust Lloyd to do his homework. Just one vote of confidence but I think you'll find plenty more who feel the same way based on their personal experience with him and his products.
FWIW, vinyl molecules are NOT substrates which can be metabolized by proteases, amylases, or lipases. However, I cannot vouch for the safety of the sporicidin enzyme mixture on vinyl if it contains ingredients (enzyme cofactors, buffers, etc.) not described here. Also, I cannot predict the ease of removal of any residues from the sporicidin enzyme solutions from the vinyl surface. What residues? Well besides the enzymes, the products of the enzyme/substrate reactions are small polysaccharides and sugars, peptides and amino acids, and fatty acids--those will have to be removed as well. Otherwise, you'll just end up growing bacteria on your records. Fortunately, they should be readily extractable with a detergent/water rinse.
Also, to avoid confusion, the "mold" described in the sporicidin enzyme solution lit. is fungus and is not to be confused with the "mold" in the mold-release compounds of vinyl records ("mold" = metal template).
Norm, That's a real honest response and goes to show how careful we all must be selecting products.
There is a lot money spent(and wasted in fact) in search of the holy grail in this hobby.
I spent almost 25 years in the chemical industry and won't waste space here with that but the average consumer would be flabbergasted to know what goes on behind the scenes in the research and marketing departments.
Err, the salesman said so?? And the bottle say "For disks that sound like gold" and "...developed for safe and effective cleaning of analog recorded surfaces." Foolish me!
I was just recalling a discussion with the developer of L'art du Son. She said that one of the standards of the Library of Congress was that the cleaner not remove any molecules of vinyl. Does a sporicidin enzyme remove any vinyl? I think if so, I would not use it.
>>I have never found Buggtussel to do anything, probably because I have not had fungus on my records<<
If you read the product description:
Buggtussel Gold-zyme. Not a record cleaner at all, but a powerful enzyme that neutralizes and removes mold (sometimes spelled mould in scientific circles), spores, fungus, and bacteria that grow in the grooves of a record.
Very interesting. I have never found Buggtussel to do anything, probably because I have not had fungus on my records.
I do know from conversations with Lloyd Walker that the percentage of what he is adding made a great deal of difference. I also suspect that it is not like Buggtussel from his comment about my getting nothing out of using it.
What I really need is another record cleaning liquid, but I am have ordered some Preclude. I presently have DiskDoctor, RRL, AudioTop, and L'art du Son here and found L'art du Son best, but I trust Lloyd's tweaking.
Tvad, the sporicidin enzyme cleaner sounds similar to the Buggtussel enzyme system and it would probably work well with records contaminated with fungi, but it would not work on the mold release compounds. That would require something with lipase-like enzymes. The sporicidin enzymatic cleaner or Buggtussel would be a good first step on a heavily contaminated record, to follow with Lloyd's system.
Ketchup- I understand what you are saying re: the amounts of cleaning solution used. But, if I follow your math, I would have used 4-6 teaspoons for 20 sides. FAR LESS than an ounce. I stated that I used less than an ounce, but not that much less.
Most of my LPs are pretty clean to start with, so after the enzyme step, I only need enough to to do the job. I don't apply it directly to the LP, but to the brush pad, as I don't want to apply a dry brush to the LP.
As has been stated above, the enzyme step only needs to be done once, not with each subsequent cleaning, unless the LP has been containimated by oils etc from your skin.
My understanding in speaking with Lloyd about this is that the "enzymes" are primarily used to "eat" the oils from the mold release products such that once accomplished it doesn't need to be done again and that this has nothing to do with facilitating the action of the second step. The two steps apply themselves to different aspects of cleaning and the third is simply to clean off the cleaners.
As usual, Lloyd has taken it to the nth degree with predictable consequences.
Here are a couple of reasons that enzymes could become inactive in solution. Most of this depends on the concept that an enzyme is a large polypeptide chain with a tertiary structure that is relatively unstable compared to simple chemical catalysts. Changes in this structure can lead to its inactivation.:
1. Denaturation of the enzymes by agitation at air:water interfaces. Do you see soap-like bubbles when you shake the enzyme solution? Uh oh, that is enzyme that has lost its tertiary structure by denaturation caused by separation of hydrophilic and hydrophobic regions of the polypeptide chains at the air:water interface. Better be careful mixing this solution and use swirling, rather than shaking motions. Hint: roll it between your palms.
2. Degradation due to proteases. The world (inc. probably record surfaces) is full of proteases made by microbes and even your fingers and these can attack enzymes and inactivage them by cleaving the polypeptide chain into smaller pieces and amino acids.
3. Inactivation due to inhibition. Enzymes often require cofactors to work and depletion of these can inhibit further enzyme action. Alternatively, inhibitor molecules can bind to the enzyme and modify it to an inactive state.
Hope this helps clarify things. (I am a molecular biologist with a background in protein x-ray crystallography and the design of peptide detergents.)
Can you describe the process that goes on with the premixed solution? One ounce (you indicated that you actually used less) of cleaning solution for 20 LP sides equals about 1/3 teaspoon of solution per side. Do you feel that that is enough fluid to "flood" the surface and bring the crud from deep within the grooves to the surface while you scrub? It seems like a healthy amount of this quantity will be soaked up by the brush.
When I imagine cleaning an LP I imagine the dirt being put into suspension on a very wet surface before it is vacuumed off. Can this be effectively done with less than 1/3 teaspoon of solution?
The response to your thread must be a record, or close to it, 14 responses in 2 days, congrats.
From previous posts,------- "Enzymes are catalysts - a very special kind of organically grown catalyst with a very precise chemical definition. A "true" catalyst in chemical terms substantially reduces the energy barrier which exists between atoms and which prevents the atoms from "getting close" enough to react and form a bond with one another. An enzyme, like all strictly-defined catalysts, is therefore said to lower the energy of activation of a reaction; but, the catalyst is not changed in any way in the process - kind-of like a conduit - a path through which reactions occur."
It appears from the above that the key is the enzyme solution, as a pre-treatment, allows the cleaning solution to work better as there is less energy required due to the catalyst effect created by the bonding of the enzyme solution and the cleaning solution.
Just a thought; a catalyst, by definition, affects the speed of a chemical reaction without actually taking part in it. Time and heat are both catalysts. Enzymes also contribute to the effectiveness of the cleaning process , the frame of reference that we are referring to in this text. We should be able to add another catalyst to enhance the final result. I suggest a vigorous mechanical action , much more violent than brushing.
Ultrasonic action should only enhance the final result.
Perditty, Lloyd tells me that you need to use the enzyme step only *once*. After that first cleaning, if there's ever a need to clean the LP again, just use the cleaning solution and rinse.
I too have tried Lloyds new record cleaning solution and it is all that you claim in terms of the sonic improvements it produces. My only reason for not using it each time I listen to LP's is the limited half life of the enzyme solution [I don't want to mix up more than I can use at one time and then have to throw the unused portion out. But I will swear by the sonic improvements, you really havent heard all that is on your LP's till you clean with this stuff!!!
I'd forgotten that Lloyd was coming out with this product this month, thanks for the reminder. I too heard an early version of the product at Lloyd's home when he applied it to records I had brought with me and thought were clean. The differences were not subtle and are as you and Rush described. I suppose I should get separate vacuum arms for my VPI 16.5 RCM for use with the different stages, if I want to go all the way on this. It's a lot of work, but it is the best I've heard so far and is well worth the effort.
Enzymes are catalysts - a very special kind of "organically grown" catalyst with a very precise chemical definition. A "true" catalyst in chemical terms substantially reduces the energy barrier which exists between atoms and which prevents the atoms from "getting close" enough to react and form a bond with one another. An enzyme, like all strictly-defined catalysts, is therefore said to lower the energy of activation of a reaction; but, the catalyst is not changed in any way in the process - kind-of like a conduit - a path through which reactions occur.
I'm no chemist either. I too claim no knowledge about the biology or chemistry of enzymes. I can only report what I read in the directions for use. Perhaps it's not so much that the enzymes themselves are living organisms, but perhaps the chemical reaction created when they are suspended in a liquid (in this case water) limits the period of effective viability.
Enzymes are catalysts. Most are proteins. (A few ribonucleoprotein enzymes have been discovered and, for some of these, the catalytic activity is in the RNA part rather than the protein part. Enzymes bind temporarily to one or more of the reactants of the reaction they catalyze. In doing so, they lower the amount of activation energy needed and thus speed up the reaction.
It appears from the above that the key is the enzyme solution as a pre-treatment allows the cleaning solution to work better as there is less energy required due to the catalyst effect created by the bonding of the enzyme solution and the cleaning solution. Call Lloyd Walker to discuss the research he put into this before he brought it to the market.
Perhaps it is a bad choice of words, but I was under the impression that enzymes were not living things and as such had no life cycle. I'm not challenging the effectiveness of this cleaner but perhaps questioning the claim on the effective time span of an enzyme solution.
I'm just an EE with a masters in CS so I claim no expertise in this area. I'm simply confused by past conversations concerning enzymes.
Ketchup, Let's see: so far I have cleaned 20 LP sides (10 records). I have used about 2 fingernail size anounts of the enzyme powder, 3 to 4 ounces of water, and less than an ounce of cleaning solution. My guess is the first thing to be be replenished would be the premixed cleaning solution, but not until I have cleaned well over 200 LPs
As far as HAZMATS on the LP or not, Lloyd sells it as a three-step process and it is efficacious as a three-step process. Could you skip the enzymes? Sure. You've bought and paid for them, why not use them?
I didn't see any information on Lloyd's site indicating how many LP sides one can expect to clean with one complete system (without having to re-order any particular item). Any idea?
If you don't expect any "biohazards" on an LP, is it necessary to perform the enzyme step?
Joe (Slipknot1), thanks for the update on the Walker Audio Prelude record cleaning system. The only thing missing is that "holy cow" remark you made to me over the phone. :-)
I heard the same results Joe described in a demo in Lloyd's system about 4 months ago and I was impressed with it, too. So apparently was David Robinson in awarding the Prelude cleaning system a 2006 Brutus Award at Positive Feedback Online.
What was particularly impressive to me was the impact on two LPs I brought over that I'd recently cleaned carefully using Disc Doctor and my VPI RCM. We played the LPs, then Lloyd used his 3-step cleaning (starting with the enzyme cleaner) and we played them again. The improvement was not subtle. Was this simply the result of a *second* cleaning and might the same result have come with another cleaning with my standard regimine? Maybe - I've not tested that. But once my system is set up again following this move I'm in the middle of, I plan to get some of Lloyd's materials and find out. I look forward to comments from others who get a chance to try this in your own systems. .
AI is still in business. Paul Frumkin sold the rights to the product to someone else who is still producing and marketing it according to Paul's formula.
I love Walker audio products. I am currently using Audio Intelligent solutuions. I wasn't even aware they are not in business anymore. I'm glad Walker has stepped up to bat.
I am using the Walker HDL Reference links on my Watt's with excellent results. Lloyd Walker and his line of products are wonderful tools for us all.
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