I feel kind of slick today.
Walker Audio Prelude LP Cleaning Solution
I did not want to post this as a full review as this is my initial first impression using the newly released Walker Audio Prelude LP Cleaning Solutions.
Prelude is a 3-step process consisting of enzymes, premixed cleaning solution and an ultra pure water rinse (made via a 7 stage filtration process). I comes nicely packaged with the following: a 64 ounce container of ultra pure water, a 16 ounce squeeze bottle of premixed cleaning solution, a second bottle of water in a 16 ounce squeeze bottle, an empty 4 ounce squeeze bottle, and a jar of enzyme powder, along with a small scoop and a slightly larger scoop.
Lloyd’s research indicates that enzymes in a solution only have a life cycle of 8-10 hours before they die off. By keeping the enzymes in a powder form, and only mixing enough to be used during a cleaning session ensures they stay active.
If you plan on cleaning 5-6 or so LP sides at a time (which is what I have been doing), use the small scoop in the enzyme powder. Place the powder in the empty 4-ounce bottle. Add some of the water from the 16-ounce container up to the “A” mark on the 4-ounce bottle and shake to mix. Apply to the pads of a cleaning brush and lightly scrub the LP as it spins on your RCM. Let it sit for 15-30 seconds and vacuum off.
Using a second brush, apply the premixed cleaning solution to the pad and apply to the LP as above. Let sit for a few seconds and vacuum off. Do not let either solution dry on the LP.
Using a third brush, use the ultra pure water as a final rinse and vacuum off.
I have had lots of experience with different LP cleaning products, including Disc Doctor, Audio Intelligent, and L’Art du Son. The AI solutions are similar to Prelude in that they also use the enzyme solution as a pre-treat prior to cleaning. The AI enzyme come premixed, unlike the Prelude. The enzyme powder formula of Prelude ensures that the enzymes stay viable until they are needed. I really like the AI solutions when I used them, and missed them when Paul sold the business.
That said, The Walker Audio Prelude is the best of the AI, kicked up several notches. Lloyd Walker has hit another one out of the ballpark. After cleaning several LPs that I thought I knew backward and forward, I can report the following: surfaces are dead silent, with no residue what so ever from any of the three steps. There is no static build up, and even well played LPs have that shiny right out of the sleeve look to them.
Focus, detail and transparency are the first three words that come to mind when describing what I am hearing. The inner detail on familiar LPs lets me hear for the first time things that have been there but never fleshed out of the grooves the way it is after using Prelude. At least, that's what MY ears are telling me. The music just leaps out from the utter blackness of the grooves. And, your records are REALLY clean. What else could you expect from one of the true masters of the analog arts? Who better to bring such a great product to the market for LP lovers than the man who builds what I consider to be the finest LP playback product in the world?
Give Lloyd a call and talk to him yourself about Walker Audio Prelude. I have no financial connection to Walker Audio other than the fact that I am a very happy customer and use many of their products in my system.
Kudos to Lloyd, Felicia, and Fred for creating another great Walker Audio product.
Prelude is a 3-step process consisting of enzymes, premixed cleaning solution and an ultra pure water rinse (made via a 7 stage filtration process). I comes nicely packaged with the following: a 64 ounce container of ultra pure water, a 16 ounce squeeze bottle of premixed cleaning solution, a second bottle of water in a 16 ounce squeeze bottle, an empty 4 ounce squeeze bottle, and a jar of enzyme powder, along with a small scoop and a slightly larger scoop.
Lloyd’s research indicates that enzymes in a solution only have a life cycle of 8-10 hours before they die off. By keeping the enzymes in a powder form, and only mixing enough to be used during a cleaning session ensures they stay active.
If you plan on cleaning 5-6 or so LP sides at a time (which is what I have been doing), use the small scoop in the enzyme powder. Place the powder in the empty 4-ounce bottle. Add some of the water from the 16-ounce container up to the “A” mark on the 4-ounce bottle and shake to mix. Apply to the pads of a cleaning brush and lightly scrub the LP as it spins on your RCM. Let it sit for 15-30 seconds and vacuum off.
Using a second brush, apply the premixed cleaning solution to the pad and apply to the LP as above. Let sit for a few seconds and vacuum off. Do not let either solution dry on the LP.
Using a third brush, use the ultra pure water as a final rinse and vacuum off.
I have had lots of experience with different LP cleaning products, including Disc Doctor, Audio Intelligent, and L’Art du Son. The AI solutions are similar to Prelude in that they also use the enzyme solution as a pre-treat prior to cleaning. The AI enzyme come premixed, unlike the Prelude. The enzyme powder formula of Prelude ensures that the enzymes stay viable until they are needed. I really like the AI solutions when I used them, and missed them when Paul sold the business.
That said, The Walker Audio Prelude is the best of the AI, kicked up several notches. Lloyd Walker has hit another one out of the ballpark. After cleaning several LPs that I thought I knew backward and forward, I can report the following: surfaces are dead silent, with no residue what so ever from any of the three steps. There is no static build up, and even well played LPs have that shiny right out of the sleeve look to them.
Focus, detail and transparency are the first three words that come to mind when describing what I am hearing. The inner detail on familiar LPs lets me hear for the first time things that have been there but never fleshed out of the grooves the way it is after using Prelude. At least, that's what MY ears are telling me. The music just leaps out from the utter blackness of the grooves. And, your records are REALLY clean. What else could you expect from one of the true masters of the analog arts? Who better to bring such a great product to the market for LP lovers than the man who builds what I consider to be the finest LP playback product in the world?
Give Lloyd a call and talk to him yourself about Walker Audio Prelude. I have no financial connection to Walker Audio other than the fact that I am a very happy customer and use many of their products in my system.
Kudos to Lloyd, Felicia, and Fred for creating another great Walker Audio product.
86 responses Add your response
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Ignoring Psychicanimal's post, I have now done three records using the three step Walker Prelude. All of these disks had previously been cleaned using other fluids and my Loricraft. Previous fluids most recently mean L'art du Son, prior to that AudioTop, and prior to that DiskDoctor. In each case I listened to at least two cuts prior to using the Prelude. It is quite clear that there are fewer pops and clicks and generally less noise. The ambient detail increases greatly and thus you get a more accurate soundstage it clear layering and depth. High frequencies are much cleaner and bass is better defined. I lack the patience to try each step by itself, so all I can say is that the records sound better after Prelude use despite having already been cleaned with other products. The three steps take a good time, but the improvement is quite noticable. There were no finger prints or food on any of the surfaces. Tonight I will consume the small quantity of enzyme fluid I mixed. |
I have brought this thread to Lloyd's notice. His only comment was that he didn't care and that it gave some people things to do. I do think that early on there were interesting comments and information. Perhaps we should go back to that. I have the Walker cleaner but have yet to try it. Previously I had found that L'art do Son was superior to the AudioTop Vinyl cleaner using my Loricraft vacuum as the AudioTop evaporate too quickly. I will first see if I hear any improvement on already cleaned records using the Walker. I have several times tried the Buggtussell but have found no improvement with it. Perhaps this is because I don't have finger prints or food on my lps. So the enzyme treatment in the Walker may do nothing for me. |
What a novel idea! I mean, who ever before developed a three step vinyl cleaning process before, using an enzymatic product as the first step and ultrapure water as the third and final step? The creativity shown here is fairly remarkable. My only question is whether XXXX had already planned to make his own 3-step process ......? And my only question is whether it was noted and remembered by anyone that the AI stuff didn't even know the EXISTENCE of ultra pure water as a cleaner and rinse until Francisco (Physicanimal) brought the subject to light to them in the original beta tester thread. And, of course, not even Francisco was the originator of said use. Some novel ideas are even more novel than one might think (or admit). |
Flemke- A public forum is not the place for supposition or innuendo. I don't know the story, neither do you. THAT was my point. I am disappointed that the purpose of this thread was skewed way off track. The only thing I attempted to express was what I found in using a product. I am sorry that some folks seem to have an axe to grind, and feel a need to hijack other's threads in order to vent. If you have a problem with the principals, take it up with them. Like Jejune, I will not comment any further on this topic |
Flemke- Why are you so bitter? Did you have a financial stake in AI? If so-in the interest of full disclosure you should say so. You should be a little more careful about what you post. The words you used are not your own, I know. At least you used quotes. But- you nor I were privy to the conversations you reference in your post. Trust me on this, you don't know the whole story. Some would consider your last post as lible. Once again- This thread is about my experience WITH the product. If you haven't tried it, you have nothing of value to add to this thread. This is especially true if all you have to add are accusations based upon what someone else said to you. |
Given what Flemke said? If that is the case, it would seem your issue should be with Flemke, not me, and funny you make no call to him. I noted in my own post of the possible conclusion jumping only to see that you feel forced to repeat that. Flemke made the accusation, not me. If Flemke gives proof of what he said, I will summarily retract my conclusion jumping admission and stand by what I said earlier. If he cannot or will not, then I will offer my apology to Mr. Walker in his absence. With that I will not comment on this topic further, |
I only said what I did in response to what Flemke claims. Though I am not saying that what Flemke said about Lloyd Walker is necessarily true, it is an example of what goes on all the time in this hobby. Remember, Tbg, FLEMKE said that about Walker, not me, though I will admit to perhaps jumping to conclusions in using what he said as an example of a larger issue (should have incldued "if true" in my post). I would also hope that if it IS true, Flemke has proof. That being said, I advise YOU to be careful of WHO you accuse of slander and read more carefully. OTOH, I can cite many examples of such dealings in this business that come from personal expereince, personal observations, and proven actions. I firmly stand by my statement that there is collusion, back scratching, and outright fraud in the business. If you do not think so, you are naive. |
In my experience, Lloyd generally applies himself in a way that I've often felt a need for. That is, start with existing good ideas and refine them to the Nth degree, beyond wherever the other guys dropped the ball, often for understandable practical considerations, kinda like olympic records, perhaps, in the process, coordinating some angles missed by one or the other of the contenders' products. No shame in that. It is an inevitable expression of necessity being the mother of invention. |
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Lloyd developed a three step cleaning process for cleaning records? That’s absolutely genius! What a novel idea! I mean, who ever before developed a three step vinyl cleaning process before, using an enzymatic product as the first step and ultrapure water as the third and final step? The creativity shown here is fairly remarkable. My only question is whether Lloyd had already planned to make his own 3-step process when he told Paul Frumkin that he would “put Audio Intelligent on the map,” and encouraged Paul to speak freely to him as an ally and unofficial promoter of Audio Intelligent? |
Slipknot1, well said. I have, however, learned much about how and why enzymes work. I have the Walker Prelude but have yet to mix up a batch of enzyme. Maybe this weekend. Having also tried the Ultra Vivid, however, and not to hijack the thread, I will say that it works as I expect the Prelude will work. |
I merely reported above MY experience with the product. I have used the AI product and liked it very much. Still do. I am using the Walker Prelude product now and like it very much. That said, I AM NOT a chemist. The debate going back and forth so far has detracted from the intent of this thread. The naysayers that are dismissing the product out of hand would do best to try it first, compare it to AI and draw your own conclusions. It seems like flawed thinking to claim something does or does not work if you have not tried it. If you don't intend to try one or the other, please start your own thread to debunk the theory behind enzyme cleaners. Like our choices in audio equipment, the choices we make to care for our LPs are our choices. At the end of the day, we only have to please ourselves. I have used RRL, Disc Doctor, AI, L'Art du Son, Walker and have my preferences. I happen to like the AI and the Walker, but prefer to use one over the other at this time. If you've tried the Walker Prelude and wish to debate its efficacy, fine. If you haven't tried it, opinions as to whether or not it works, are not really germane to this thread. |
Gee, I'm sure we are all comforted to know that YOU are the the end of the story arbiter. The real end is that your earlier post was either intentionally or unintentionally written to make folks think that there were "heads" at NASA testing steam cleaning on vinyl records and consulting with you on same. Now, it appears that you really meant that you are adopting some trickle down theory of technology that these "scientific" types have employed in other areas and of cleaning and with other goals and MATERIALS in mind. We won't even go into the issue that some of these same folks whose efforts we are supposed to trust implicitly okayed certain o-rings and heat tiles which, shall we say, did not pass the stress test. Luckily, matters of vinyl records are not so critical and the track record of these folks with respect to producing transferable technology is much better on an overall basis. So, if you have tried lining up your records along with the sport coat you just popped out of the suit case, fine. Just don't bring NASA into it as if they are the cornerstone of your research on the topic. With respect to ultra clean water and its efficacy as a cleaning agent, I do not think there can any longer be a debate. However, I would prefer to trust the folks with the knowledge who have done specific tests with this water in combination with a wide variety of surfactants and other ingredients SPECIFICALLY with respect to how they react and perform on VINYL RECORDS. There are very, very few of them around and those couple are not touting steam cleaning. But, the next time I want a good cleaning on the trailing edge of my shuttle flaps, I'll see what NASA has in mind. Guessing it won't be the end of the story. |
What I was relaying is that persons that apply science for a living find no fault with the idea in practice or other wise. H2O products that are deionized & demineralized allow for a "clean" water to initiate the cleaning process. NASA has spent MILLIONS on the cleaning of spacecrafts / robots/ space probes before lift off in the past 30+ years . So what if some of that knowledge trickeles down to us? So how much am I spending? About $4 ga. for water that is almost as clean as that used in reactors. And as for a steam cleaner how about the Perfection sold @ Walgreens of $30. Personally, I do not want to bring politics into this thread. If you are that hung up on "taxpayer funded activity"-- work to stop the war. NASA recognizes the effiacy of steam cleaning. As for weither the idea is worthwild to you depends on the state of your collection & the price you will pay to improve the sound you hear. Remember, LLoyds air bearing TT costs between 25-40k, a Raven 5-10k and we haven't even gotten to the tone-arn or pick-up. I have friends that don't think twice dropping $$$$+ to improve their sound . Lloyds products do not come cheap . This product costs $85'isk and wont't last a lifetime. All I'm suggesting is that for a very modest investment under $50, one may considerably improve the quality of playback provided the vinyl is free of abuse of manufacturing defects , and also experiment wth Lloyds or any other LP cleaner. End of story. |
Crem, take it as an attack if you are that defensive. YOU seemed to be saying that folks at NASA were testing the efficacy of steam cleaning vinyl records. No? If they were doing this as part of a taxpayer funded activity, I consider it a waste of money. If you are just talking about people who happen to work at NASA who are doing some sort of home testing, I'd only ask, so what? That's all. |
Slipknot, Great review. I just ordered some of the Walker fluid to give it a try. Previously, I've only used Disc Doctor, so it should be a pretty nice upgrade. Just curious, do you think the Walker superclean water could be substituted with the battery water suggested by Crem1 or some other type of clean, distilled water? I have a Nitty Gritty RCM, but I may try to clean the records manually (with t-shirts or lint-free cloths), which may require extra water. Mark |
90493m, I'm also using the ELP/Loricraft and it's interesting but not surprising that I found a very similar procedure (posted in another thread), including letting the enzyme sit for a while, gave the very good results you describe! I'm using the RRL products, L'art du Son and Buggtussel. Consider your results independently verified. Curious that you found the AI products not as good. I'm also going to test the Walker product eventually. Look forward to your comments on this. The ELP is a great tool for evaluating how clean your vinyl is! |
Jejune : Sounds like a personal attack. That is regrettable. I'm never exactly sure what your tax dollars paying for but i'm sure that every $ spent is not on steaming . You are grossly uninformed . And if your $ were spent for steaming that would be unfornunate. That's not what i'm after ... Only bring the audio experience to a higher level for those that care. |
As for NASA folks, they are SOME of the same that put robots on places far too distant to appreciate with the naked eye but they do. Remember, they sought me out after experimenting with the idea. Yeah, right. If you are saying that NASA is spending my tax dollars to test the efficacy of steam clenaing vinyl records, THAT is crazy talk. Unless I am corrected by the results of independent research that throws up strong possibilities that I haven't considered, I'll continue to regard this method as equivalent to the "demagnetizing" of vinyl records. Don't hold your breath. The enzyme makers are more interested in marketing research than scientific research. |
I have not tried the Walker enzyme product just yet, but am planning to. Inthe mean time I adda few commetns on cleaning records. Having lived with the ELP laser player as well as a more conventional tt/arm setup it is clear that the ELP will instantly reveal any foreign substance on the record (just read the ELP reviews). I use the Loricraft RCM and have tired the Disc Dr, Premier,Smart Devices, Buggtussel and AI solutions along with the DD brushes.I have tried all sorts combuindations of these chemicals. The one combination that, so far, has resulted in almost flawlessly clean reocrds (to where the ELP is nearly as silent as a cd) is: - mix up concentrated Buggtussell formula using 12-20 drops of the concnetrate per 2 oz of distiled water. Distribute this on record and let sit for 2-5 minutes -with Buggtussel still on record, distribute generous quantity of Smart Devices 'High Potentcy' cleaner. Scrub this with DD brush back and forth over entire record surface for apprx 60 seconds. - vacuum off solution and immediately apply 'regular' strength Smart Devices solution. Spin the record and apply DD brush for 10-20 seconds, then vacumm off. - apply rinse of pure distilled water using second DD brush. Spni record 10-20 seconds while applying DD brush. Vacumm the H20 off. This process has resulted in remarkably clean records, to where i only hear the occaisional pop/tick using the ELP and virtual silence on the regular tt.. I had tried the same process but using AI enzymer formula intead of the super concentrated Buggtussel and using the AI cleaning solutions. The resutls were nowhere near as good. I will get some Walker Prelude and see how it compares. |
Clarets2: Frankly, I have not found any organic compound that was impervious to a good record cleaning & steaming. My all time favorite cleaner is "Disc Doctor". The H2O used to dilute the cleaner and make steam is critical to the process , that is why I purchase my H2O from Prestone or Peak via a local autoparts store. Read Michael Fremers March /03 Stereophile article outlining the use of the "Hotshot" to clean used records. Mickey likes it ! And remember this ; even if the stuff you clean vinyl with is ,unfortunately, "snakeoil" steaming most likely shall remove its traces before playtime. |
I am a chemist. I do know what an enzyme is and how it acts. I also know what a catalyst is beyond the level of high school chemisatry displayed by some respondents above. If there is no chemical specific to an enzyme present on the surface of a record then the enzyme will do nothing. PVC is certainly impoervious to enzyme action, and the plasticizer molecules are probably too embedded in the PVC matrix to be accessible. The only contaminants I can think of that a commercially-available enzyme mixture might attack and break down into smaller, water-soluble washable molecules are residues from fingerprints or food particles accidently dropped on the record. I cannot see how bacterial enzymes specific to mold-release agents (if there are such enzymes) would be available at the price. So if you haven't touched the surface of your records with your bare hands or dropped food material on it you're wasting your money subjecting your records to enzymatic treatment. You might as well do a pure water wash at this point. Unless I am corrected by the results of independent research that throws up strong possibilities that I haven't considered, I'll continue to regard this method as equivalent to the "demagnetizing" of vinyl records. |
Ketchup : I have explained the ideas in Listener, Stereophile ( twice -2003&2006 ) & Positive Feedback (2005). I am not selling anything and if you don't prefer the suggestion that's ok. As for "crazy talk " for you that maybe the answer. As for NASA folks, they are SOME of the same that put robots on places far too distant to appreciate with the naked eye but they do. Remember, they sought me out after experimenting with the idea. As for the % of course that is subjective. However, during the past 30 years I have been constantly experimenting with LP cleaning ideas and in my opinion I have probably read just about every published article in english on the subject. Steam has been used as a cleaning method for well over 100+years factories. My idea takes steam from the macro to the micro. I know that it is difficult to grasp but its not really. You just need to spend a couple of weeks reading to understand that steam is a universal cleaner. Using household steaming machines that produce steam at "cool" levels as I have suggested CAREFULLY can bring remarkable results. For you that mat not be the answer. But one issue is certian --no amount of cleaning can take the place of extreme record care or fix manufacturing defects or abuse. Please see Motic comments above. |
Is it just me that thinks that the steaming will only make the vinyl expand, tighten up the grooves, and lock in the dirt, making it even harder to remove? I'm not bashing your steam cleaning idea, but I would at least like a scientific explanation of what is going on. Also, how do you tell the difference between .005% gunk and 0% gunk? Were you just kidding around? And the NASA folks... Were they just evaluating the steam cleaning idea by listening (you don't have to be employed by NASA to do that) or did they have some high tech methods to evaluate the effectiveness? Creml, please explain more! It seems like the less you explain the more it sounds like "crazy talk," to me at least! |
Slipknot1 Thank you for the kind response. Clarets2: Place the nozzle on an angle , never allow the steam to come closer than 3/4" > I steam from 15-30 sec. per side followed by a ride on my VPI (cleaning solution of your choice but Walker highly recommended)followed up with a 2nd steaming and drying. My personal choice is the Eureka Hot Shot 350-A @ $55 to 60 at the big boxes. |
Groovey: For several years I have been experimenting with my own prototype made from off-the-shelf stuff that is effective. However, my concern is that the ultrasonic action "leaches" the chemicals out of the LP and sometimes I have experienced the H20 imparting a white crystal on the top groves ,should I use the machine for more than a 15 sec. or so. I have a feeling that the machine you forwarded has overcome my concerns, but who knows. All the Best |
Crem1, Thankyou! Finally someone clearly explains the steam cleaning process and effect. I bought myself a small hand-held cleaner but am concerned with 2 things: 1. How close to place the nozzle of the cleaner to the vinyl? (The nozzle is 4"wide by 1/2"deep with small holes along its length) 2. How long do you steam for? 30 secs or 3 minutes? The answers to the above should remove some of my fear factor! |
CREM1, Hi, your technique and system is the second inovation I have read about on these pages. The other, the integration of a ultrasonic bath with a verticle RCM vacum above the tank is said to be available on the street retail in Taiwan. Have you seen it ? ultraclean Not wanting to take this to an extreme (oops too late) do you think combining both your deep steam treatment with the ultra sonic bath and verticle bath would or could yeild a more pristine result? |
Slipknot: The process is simple. I use a a hand held steamer w/o any attachments. The steaming unit is filled with water approved for filling a car-battery --super clean and reasonable @ PEP Boys Auto. I cover the label ,cover the hand holding the lp with a glove and lightly steam the LP groves before using ANY record cleaning machine (of your choice)and record cleaning solution to gently scrub the groves followed by a second vaccuming & a post steaming. The post steaming removes any potental "sonic fingerprint" that were deposited by the cleaning solution. Thereafter, I use a couple of custom built machines to dry an de-static the LPs before playing. I find the combination of steaming/record cleaning solvents and machines leaves a record as utterly free of gunk as possible. Forget my custom stuff -- a lint free cloth or air drying works ALMOST as well. A couple of NASA folks did a series of unpublished experiments on the process and found nothing cleaned LPs better. I have developed a couple of other machines that can remove the .005% of gunk nothing elese can remove. But those are for me . I own quite alot of LPs. And with exception of those with manufacturing noise or misuse I can make 99.5% listenable. Enjoy the music. |
I don't wish for a bashing so I will make my comments brief. For years I have been using consumer hand-held steaming devices to pre and post clean LPs. My ideas have been posted in several audio mags and one euro design group visted with me last year after my steaming method trashed a machine retailing for $$$$+. Mr. Walker & I had a brief conversation so he is awaire of the steaming method. Personally, I have found that all cleaning solutions I tested leave a "sonic fingerprint" that no one would know existed UNLESS you steam-clean( pre & post) to the use of cleaning solutions /or machines. I am certian that Mr. Walker has done all possible to putout a superior product. I suggest that unless one has not tried steaming as outlined in Michael Fremers article in Stereophile 2/06 you shall never know what is missing. I interject this suggestion because you-all are hard-core not for a bash'in. So take or leave it. Happy Listening |