Re Slick 50, it took me forever to get the sludge that stuff left behind out of a TNT-2 bearing well. |
Slaw, thanks for the clarification. Earlier you said that you agreed that the sound was leaner with oil vs lithium grease. I also noticed less-stable pitch with the grease; the main reason that I stopped using the grease. You mention that the DuPont grease yields an improvement over the lithium grease. Is the improvement related to tonality (leaner/weightier) or to speed stability? Thanks. |
Frogman: I think speed stability has to be a consideration regarding any lube. Regarding leaner/weightier tonality, I'd say the DuPont goes towards weightier, but with a solidity that wasn't there before.
There are a host of other system variables that can make this issue a positive or negative. I'm currently testing preamp isolation and that is 'huge' with regards to the overall sonic picture. I'm glad this issue came up again, for it's easy to get "settled" on a system's sonics and then, change just one thing (like preamp isolation) and the whole systems' sonic picture can change rapidly. |
Dopogue: FWIW, I use lint free swabs on a stick along with 99.8% pure isopropyl alcohol. No problems at all. |
Ok after looking at the Super Lube that Music Direct offers I look it up and found it at Graingers
http://www.grainger.com/product/44N750?gclid=CPuj_5HEgrsCFeHm7AodoCIAog&cm_mmc=PPC:GooglePLA-_-Lubrication-_-Lubricants-_-44N750&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=44N750&ef_id=UONZ4QAAUmx2ZV@-:20131126131422:s |
VPI sells their own lubrication - it comes in a hypodermic type of applicator, and although it is called Magic Lube and is probably expensive for what it is, I know that it is the recommended stuff that VPI sanctions. (It looks like lithium grease) |
Stringreen,
VPI uses Super Lube. At least that's what Jack sent me for my Classic. |
Frogman: Since my last post, I switched to Mobile One 50w synthetic, (and changed my tube compliment). I feel I need to try any make a point... I look at the VPI tt lube as an ongoing area in which, based on any system upgrades, has to be looked at as an issue that will need to be addressed on an ongoing basis.
I stand by my assessment of the Dupont grease as the absolute best I've tried, FWIW. Never tried Royal Purple. |
.......I may be going back to the grease soon????? |
Yes, I just changed. ( the amount of any fluid is of great importance also).
I just put a little of the Dupont on the ceramic bearing and in the bearing well. I applied some Mobile One 5-50w synthetic to the shaft. This is an obvious difference!
Maybe at another time I'll try 30w. For now, today, I'll just listen.
Any of you that haven't tried these kinds of things, should.
This gives a weightier outlook on the whole sonic picture.
A little too much for me. I'll try something different.
OK, this is it party people: This is REAL TIME! I just put in 40w (4 drops in the well, one drop in the bearing shaft bottom & one drop on top of the bearing after it was placed in the shaft.
This my friends seems to be the right compromise for me right now. Are you getting it? This is a system dependant way of (voicing, if you will) your system. The more resolving your system is, the more you'll be able to (immediately tell the difference). |
Slaw, thanks for the update. Not entirely clear what your final assessment is. I agree that different lubes all have slightly different tonal signatures in any given tt; best in this case is clearly system dependent. What is not so system dependent, and my main issue with the thicker the oil/grease, was that the thicker the lube the less lively and speed stable the tt's sound was. Did you arrive at any conclusions regarding this? |
Frogman/Slaw,
If you can, try and get some Motul V300 Power Racing, either 0W30 or 5W40.
It is simply the best synthetic oil on the planet, a double ester synthetic, using extract from Copra. It is highly unctuous, which means a film will adhere to non moving parts and very slippery. Mobil 1 is like sandpaper in comparison. Most of the race cars with Mobil 1 stickers on them are not usually using it. I have tried various, molybdenum sulphates, laboratory grade oils, etc on TT's ranging from Linn/Oracle/Roksan/Townsend and many others. On the Roksan which has a very fine bearing, the 0W30 worked well. On my Final Audio ( 22kg platter/inverted bearing ) I use the 5W40. Unless the bearing is low tolerance for conventional non inverted bearings the 0W30 is fine.
In my experience some of the teflon based products and lower grade oils increase wear markedly. |
Thanks, Dover I will look into the Motul; it's getting to be time for my annual bearing cleaning and relubing. |
Along similar lines, what do project owners use for lubing the spindle? |
Frogman: Yes, the heavier, thicker lube makes for a less lively, thicker, muddy, uninvolving sound that makes listening a chore.
Dover: Thanks for the Motul suggestion, I remember now, hearing guys involved in motorcyle racing mentioning this oil. |
On my Final Audio ( 22kg platter/inverted bearing ) I use the 5W40 (motul) Dover, how do use this oil on an inverted bearing? Don't most use grease? |
Brf,
The Final Audio uses oil in an inverted bearing. The tolerances are very fine and the oil holds. Reseating the subplatter/platter takes about 6 hours when I change the oil. In the 25 plus years I have owned the Final it has never run dry.
Most inverted bearings run grease as you say but there are some exceptions. |
Dover: I purchased a quart of Motul 300V 5w40 and installed it as I've done other oils, as stated above. (The dealer had no 5w30 and since I found that (standard 40w) had the basics, regarding sonics that I like, I went with the 5w40). I put on the Classic re-issue of Peter Gabriel "So", (my regular issue is too forward sounding and the whole sonic frequency range seems to me not integrated well) it has always been somewhat darker with a little (more pronounced bass). The overall presentation is more "quick on it's feet", bass is not dark sounding and has nice definition and solidity, some faint inner detail I've barely heard before is much more noticable now. I'll post again after more listening regarding how it's done on various records but this is my initial finding to keep the thread going. |
I've been listening more, here's my thoughts...
These type of issues shouldn't be of much consequence until one has established their own "life-time" system. By this, I mean, taken on a whole, you're system meets all of your requirements, room volume/system output, component synergy, an established reference cartridge/system adjustments for this, ROOM ACOUSTICS.
If you're at the level of what oil to use in your tt bearing, all of these (and probably more) issues should have been addressed.
Here's what I'm hearing now...
After all of my grease/oil experiences, I'm loving the latest Motul 300v 5w40 in my non-inverted VPI bearing, using a custom outboard motor enclosure and #2 silk bead cord. When you take as a whole, the different spectrum of recordings out there and with current ones being more "forward/bright", you have to find a happy medium.
Right now, the Motul 5w40 is my happy medium. I hear, especially in the bass region, more detail. There is also a sense of warmth, that on the wide variety of recordings, I translate in to this being a "go to" oil for me.
I could certainly see that trying 5w30 may be worthwhile. Only you can decide for yourselves. Me, for now, I'm going to sit back and enjoy, finally! |
Slaw, thanks for the feedback on the Motul V300 oil. Pleased to see you are happy with the outcome. I have also used the Motul V300 to great effect in lubricating the TT motor. In the Final TT the motor is fairly large and has a spindle/thrustpad/oil pan/double bush arrangement. Changing to Motul in the TT motor gave a big improvement in lower noise floor and improved resolution as well. |
Stringreen: Your known affermative action for VPI, is well known. Your lack of "knowledge on this issue" is well noted!!! |
