Vintage versus New

@johnk fastinating reading, thanks! I’m not ready to put anything together now but am willing to learn nonetheless.

@elliottbnewcombjr thanks for posting and thanks for the photos. I suppose this topic could have been better categorized under Vintage but my thought was to contrast and compare both the old with the new. You don’t appear to be bothered by the fact that your cones aren’t built out of the latest materials designed by NASA. My thought is that someone (not me) might have the intelligence and the vision to extrapolate 1930’s craftsmanship and modify it with todays technological advancements. Someone may be doing just that but I don’t know who.

here’s electrovoice bulletin on their woofers. hover over, then scroll down to page 2

see fig. 4, mine are actually 4 way, the mid horn is a two way: forward horn and diffraction horn that sounds a whole lot better than it looks.

here’s the t350 tweeter (mine is the 16 ohm version).

The wide dispersion, while avoiding high or low dispersion, avoiding ceiling and floor reflections of the horns is why the imaging is amazing.

My beloved speakers are new custom Rosewood enclosures with all electro-voice drivers, crossovers, and L-Pads. Pulled from my uncle’s 1958 Fisher President II

http://www.fisherconsoles.com/President%20II.html

It was on 8" high bronze open base, woofers firing downwards.

It’s not just nostalgia, it’s the sound! It would cost me a fortune to equal them in a new speaker today.

You need to be handy if your going to mess with Vintage anything IMO. You can pay someone else I suppose, but .....

Speakers: Woofers: There’s no point unless you are going for real bass, and that more than likely will require re-cone (most often the coil is ok). Vintage: cloth surrounds, not foam. The cloth and/or paper cone dries out, cracks ...check first, see what’s available, sometimes a full cone and coil pre-assembled can be found.

I have a full set of spare drivers, a spare woofer cone/coil kit, intend to keep em going for my son someday.

15" woofers, Model 15W (klipschorn used 15WK), monster magnet: weigh 37lbs each. Re-coned twice since I got them in 1973. Pro once, then me.

If I didn’t have a spare I would buy this one:

The horn tweeters T350 and Horn Midrange are original, untouched. Impregnated Linen. Surprises me every day. Restorers say "indestructible, leave em alone!!!"

Most in that era came with Level Controls, L-Pads, not pots. I just replaced mine for the 2nd time last year (16 ohms).

My recent re-acquisition/restoration of a pair of AR-2ax for my office had level controls also, I had forgotten that. Had to replace the tweeters, capacitors, level controls, look and sound awesome. I suppose I could have bought some fully restored ones, but I had fun. 250, ship 250, parts 250 +$750. What 3 way wood veneer can you buy new for $750?

You adjust the level controls in you space, by ear, darn good; or finally, I bought a sound pressure meter, tripod mount, listening position, CD with specific tones, takes a while. Confirmed those 4 horns are still doing it right! I still can’t believe it.

You can see the speakers, including one photo of them facing the floor, back off, see the parts. The crossovers are in a tar filled metal can, still doing it. Someone else would have built new crossovers long ago I suppose. They sound awesome to me and everybody who hears them, the output measures well, "if it ain’t broke don’t fix it". When I was young that seemed just stupid.

AR-2ax rehab

Altec A5 would be a good place to start. EV Aristocrats are fine-sounding depending greatly on the drivers used. For the $ they go for not a bad option today. They would sound best with tubes they require a corner and the image height is low. You can put something under to move the soundstage up a bit. Or make a stand. Still if wanting a vintage loudspeaker that's not embarrassed by anything modern and you do not want to shell out Western Electric $ an Altec a5 is a good choice. I use a few loudspeakers that feature front horn loading of the bass 15" and multicell. Mine are larger, a bit better than a5 but are similar in the basic design     http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/lmco/shearer.htm 

@jasonbourne52 many of these manufacturers no longer make high end speakers so yes, there value should increase. Besides the 57's which ones do you prefer?

I am holding onto my collection of vintage Altec and JBL speakers. Their value will increase over time! Present day new speakers hold no attraction for me! I also have Infinity 2000A's, KLH Nines, Janszen ESL tweeters and two pairs of Quad 57's.

@mofojo the various materials available today especially.

Don’t know anything about quads but the biggest difference I hear from vintage or even 20 years ago from today are the highs (tweeters).  

@audition__audio yeah, I really like the 57's a lot but they are too lacking in bass. If I had 57's, I'd want to create a stack.

@holmz I'm using the word 'speakers' in general terms. From my limited understanding, the crossovers used today are different, as are the woofers and tweeters. I believe the drivers on the Electrovoice speakers weighed about fifty pounds each. They only need one watt per 90 decibels of power. There are people who are restoring them and doing modifications but it seems like more of a novelty than anything.

Quad 57s are one of the few vintage speakers that I think is still relevant and competitive. Keep in mind that chances are good that you will need the 57s redone if they are untouched after purchase.. With few exceptions, speakers are much better today than in the past. I have no interest in horns and little knowledge so I cant comment on the old compression drivers and the like. 

Does today's technology make these vintage speakers obsolete?

What technology?

You will find that there were people with technical acumen back in the day, and people now with it.
You will not find cheap speakers today that have all problems addressed, and compromises optimised. But you will at a higher price point.

Now if you are not talking about cabinets and diffraction… and hence not talking about “speakers” and then referring more to “drivers”… then yes, the drivers are generally getting better. But you will also not find state of the art drivers sneaking their way into cheaper boxes.

But if one had vintage speakers, and lost a driver, then replacing them makes sense. But changing out compression drivers in horns can be a bit of a complicated DIY adventure. It is not always just a screwdriver job.