Question for all you vintage DD experts out there.
I have just acquired a Technics sl10 linear tracker which looks to be fully functional and in good shape.
My question is concerning the RCA out.
It looks like it has a built in phono amp as the little button next to the RCA outs says mm/mc.
Does this mean it cannot be used through a phono amp as there does not appear to be a bypass to this , just choice of mm or mc.
Thank you |
Under the platter, you will find a rocker switch labeled “run” or “hold”. In the run mode the tachometer will display the RPM from zero to the set value. For example if you are set to 33.33, then the tachometer will read from 0 to 33.33 over and over again. This can be very distracting. Maybe that’s what you are looking at. Check that switch under the platter. Set it to hold and you will see a static display of the RPM. At least you should see that. If you see anything else, that is an indicator of a problem. Also, I would point out, with all due respect, that cleaning the contacts is not tantamount to changing all the electrolytic capacitors. Without meaning to sound dour, the more you power up the unit without having identified the problem, the greater is the possibility that one of the hard to find ICs is suffering a fatal calamity. |
There's simply no way the calibration survived that. Barely nudging those pots drastically affects the circuit, and in the drive circuit they all interact. The mechanically tolerance affects the setting, so aligning witness marks won't work. Best rule of thumb on quartz/PLL DD circuits: don't touch the pots unless you can recalibrate yourself, or have it done.
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Yes, 120v 60hz 23W.
I used contact cleaner on each pot, moved them back and forth and set them back to where they were.
it did not take care of the problem.
the motor seems to speed up to top speed and then come down to almost a stop.
the digital display does not change because it seems that it’s taking an average.
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Look near the AC cord outlet to find the recommended AC voltage. |
Of course you can check each electrolytic for its integrity, before replacing it, and thereby save some cost and bother. But also you need not replace film capacitors. As a rule, they last virtually forever, if the unit has been stored at a reasonable temperature and humidity. If you read elsewhere in this thread, you will see other problems that commonly arise especially with the solder joints and especially with the printed circuit boards used in the TT 101 which are known to be hygroscopic. And to be fragile.
But if you first replace the major electrolytic’s and see what you’ve got, then you can assess what other problems may apply. Also in my first post I neglected a very important point. Most TT101s were built for 100VAC. If you plugged yours into 120VAC that too might cause the failure mode you observed. You’ll need a step down transformer before you go further, if you haven’t already got one.
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Lewm, thank you for the quick response.
So every capacitor should be replaced on every board?
some of them are pretty tiny.
I see a few big ones by the power supply.
i have replaced caps in the past, but they were much bigger and it was on my amp.
When I took the TT-101 apart, it really scare me, everting seems so tight and there are wires everywhere!
I’m used to seeing amps, which are much neater inside.
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Pablo, You wrote, "I would say it hasn’t been turned on in the last 15 years." There's one clue to a possible problem. The electrolytic capacitors do not like to get old, but more than that they do not like to sit on a shelf with no voltage across them for 15 years. At the very least, you should have brought up the voltage on your motor gradually, using a Variac. This can allow the electrolytics to re-form and possibly save the bacon. At this point, I doubt that a Variac would help, because the damage may already have been done. I would suggest you unplug it and then have a pro replace all the electrolytics, just to begin with. Other guys here do not like me to preach this particular gospel (replace old 'lytics with new after acquiring an aged DD turntable), but even most of them would have to agree that this should be done in your case where you know the history of disuse, before you blow up more unobtainable parts. The 'lytics are dirt cheap. The integrated circuits needed to make the tt run correctly are very difficult to source, if not impossible. |
Good evening group.
i just inherited a JVC QL-10 with Lustre GST-801 from my uncle who passed away.
He bought it brand new in lates 70s.
I would say it hasn’t been turned on in the last 15 years.
i brought it home, cleaned it up and tried it.
it locked on 33.33 for about 5 minutes and then it sped all the way up to about 67.34 rpm.
33 and 45 run at that speed and then I can see it slows down and goes back up.
I opened it up and out of my league.
i can do some things, but this one looks scary.
is there a place where I can send it?
How much could I be looking at to have it fixed?
Thank you! |
According to Vinyl Engine the Dual 701 is one of the rarer and nicest Dual decks out there.
Uses a " low torque direct drive motor"
Appears to have an enthusiastic following. |
For those of us who are not Dual cognoscenti, what is a Dual 701? I guess we should assume it's DD. Dual pioneered the coreless motor. In fact, most coreless TT motors in use even up to today (Brinkmann) are naught but developments on the Dual motor. Does the 701 contain such a coreless motor? |
Well, I foolishly purchased a broken Dual 701 off of eBay Friday. I'll put it in the stack of projects to modify. That is, if I can get it working?
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@pbnaudio Thank you for your offer, we could write in private but I'm not able to make the most of this forum I can try to search in some way your mail :) |
lew, that’s my favorite Brooks film. I’ve seen it several times and still chuckle with each viewing.
My most quoted line, "Could be worst, could be raining." But there are almost too many to count. |
I neglected to note that the monster got the girl in "Young Frankenstein", not because of his superior intellect, if you know what I mean. Dr. Frankenstein did OK, too, with his nurse assistant. |
Best Grove
Are you looking for a TT101 to use for parts for your TT101 - the motor in mine is working fine the control system still have some issues that I have not had the time to sort out - probably won't for quite some time - make me an offer.
Thanks
Peter |
(*See the movie, "Young Frankenstein".)
ha ha haaa lol :) |
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bestie, I think Halcro's response means you should not attempt a transplant. It would be like putting a pig heart (or an "Abbie Normal" brain*) into a human, a willing substitute but not up to the job.
(*See the movie, "Young Frankenstein".) |
then 2 similar but incompatible engines for easy organ transplantation.......
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Lewm, whilst the TT-81 has the identical positive and negative speed control in the servo detector......it does not have the coreless motor of the TT-101.
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Halcro, As I recall there were back and forth arguments as to whether the TT81, like the TT101, had a coreless motor. I thought that question was finally answered in the affirmative. If so, are you saying that the coreless motor in the TT81 is not identical to the one used in the TT101? Because, if the motors are idenical, I would guess that it is the electronics that differentiate the two, most of all, and it is not inconceivable that a motor from a TT81 could be incorporated into a TT101, resulting in a feaux TT101. Which I think is the question here. |
Whilst the dimensions of the enclosing cage are identical.....to think that the TT-81 is in any way 'identical' to the TT-101 is a mistake...👅 |
Are you saying that you may replace the motor of a TT 101 with that from a TT81? Yeeees.... but only if it were exactly the same! |
My advice would be to wait for one of the other guys to answer your question with some degree of certainty. Are you saying that you may replace the motor of a TT 101 with that from a TT81? Or what is it that you want to be “compatible”? |
@lewm
I could only find the engine of a TT-81 but I do not want to throw money to the wind if I do not have the real certainty that it is compatible!
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I’m still chewing on the idea that the automobile did not eliminate the horse industry. I say “chewing”, because during my recent visit to Tokyo, I noticed that horse meat was on the menu In at least one restaurant. Let’s be honest, the automobile certainly did displace the horse as a major mode of transportation.
Halcro would be in the best position to answer the question about the TT 81 versus the TT 101. Every time I read about it, the newest info changes whatever was my preconceived notion. I think the motors may be the same per se, but the electronics are different. Or vice versa.
Shane, all I care is about it is even if my LP collection is worth zero, my family will get by financially without me.
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Hi,
can anyone tell me if the TT81 engine and support is exactly the same as the TT-101 engine?
Would it be possible to replace one another?
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Dear @downunder : Never mind, those gentlemans always live and will live thinking nopthing change. Audio ignorance only.
Regards and enjoy the MUASIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
Not likely. Television didn't render radio obsolete. The automobile didn't
eliminate the horse industry. The ballpoint pen hasn't stopped production of fountain pens. LOL. what has television got to do with music? last I looked, not many horses and carriages carting people to work and back. Fountain pens are some stupid expensive luxury item these days. Not many 8 tracks, 78's, minidisc's, DAT or cassettes sold these days. CD is obsolete as well as vinyl - at least vinyl sounds great. Who is going to buy vinyl and turntables after you and the rest of us are 6 feet under? 99.99% of the population will be Streaming. |
@downunder Does it really matter. All our tables in 20 years will be worthless as nobody will be buying any physical media or players. Oh, i’m waiting for this to buy all my favorite records from the 60s and 70s for $1-5 like it was in the 90s when majority of people believed in CD format. Only 10-15 years later the price for rare vinyl increased to the stratosphere, some of those records now cost hundreds and thousands dollars even in VG condition. Dealers, who 's bought warehouses full of records at that time, now are millionaires. |
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downunder
All our tables in 20 years will be worthless as nobody will be buying any physical media or players. Not likely. Television didn't render radio obsolete. The automobile didn't eliminate the horse industry. The ballpoint pen hasn't stopped production of fountain pens. |
Dear @downunder : You are SPOT ON ! !.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
Does it really matter. All our tables in 20 years will be worthless as nobody will be buying any physical media or players.
Streaming will rule world.
Lets enjoy our tables while we are still alive and kicking |
So surprised to learn here that you love SME turntables, Invictus. Not. Will the SME 20 also take out my appendix? Can I go to it for advice on investments? Does it do dishes? I figured your posting here on a belt-drive turntable must be your idea of a joke, so I hope you can take a joke, too. |
Just get a belt driven SME Model 20. It sounds better than any of these. And it's built better.
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Dear @best-groove: """
If the engineers of Matsushita have decided for this type of power will have their good reasons, I do not think it’s just for greater material savings...."""
agree with you and agree with @lewm too and additional makes no sense that a good switching power supply design can introduce any kind of " distortion " when the cartridge signal never and can't pass trhough it.
Yes, we are talking of Matushita group !.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
I think we've had this discussion of switching PSs before on this thread, but maybe not. Anyway, at that time I also pointed out that David Berning, the designer of Berning amplification products, has been using switching power supplies at least in his (tube) amplifiers for many years, certainly more than a decade. Meantime, his products are much admired and not inexpensive. So far as I know, no reviewer or end user has ever complained about switching noise or anything of that sort. I have used (briefly) two of his ZH270 amplifiers in mono configuration to drive my Sound Lab speakers and detected no problem related to PSs. Keep in mind that DB is a brilliant fellow and an innovative engineer; not all switching power supplies are created equal. So-called linear power supplies can also be crappy if badly implemented. |
I do not like "switching" power supplies, switchnig are good for playstation or others commercial products, I have a feeling that they inject more spurious than quality, but mine are just ideas not substantiated by concrete facts.
If the engineers of Matsushita have decided for this type of power will have their good reasons, I do not think it’s just for greater material savings = greater gain .... in hi-end products is not tolerated to reason to economize.
If we analyze other examples, Linn in 1998 put on the market the CD 12 top-of-the-line player, which cost thousands and thousand of dollars and had "switching" power supply inside; in 2018 Naim produces separate power supplies with traditional components to make up-grading of its products from the cost even in these cases of thousands of dollars.
Every IHMO manufacturer has its own thinking on how to make the power supplies .... buyers should think only to hear and understand if improvements over old machines are audible instead of worrying about the technical performances.
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Dear @ferrari275: """ Really? With all due respect to this person, I cannot disagree more with this post. Where to begin........................................... Both torque and power of the MK3 dc motor is measurably greater.... """ So what, each TT has its own design neccesities. """ The 10R bearing remains tiny compared to the SP10MK3’s oversized bearing, its a toothpick. ..... Again, so what? are different TT designs. """ The platter is multi layered, damped and dynamically balanced, like the Mk3, but weighs significantly less....... " and?, the new one not needs higher weigth. """ The power supply is switching type, not a proper linear power supply, which the MK3 has. """ So, for you the new unit comes with an " improper " PS? why is that.Could you explain about?. """ """ By the way, none of the stated factory specifications published by Technics thus far for the SP10R surpass the Technics Sp10MK3 technical bench specifications, nada = none. """ It does not needs to surpass it. Can you detect the differences in quality performance levels between 0.015% against 0.014% on w&f? can you detect the differences in quality level performance between -92db against -93dbs on signal to noise ratio? could you? Sir, from where took you those conclusions in your whole statements? Maybe from Chris . The Technics pedigree not only did not changed but up graded from 1981 ( that was the year the MK3 was realeased. ) to this 21 century. Sir, today is April of 2018 not 1984 or 1990. Got it? Btw, this is what Technics has to say about: "
the SP-10R. The new turntable combines Technics’ most advanced digital and analogue technologies, boasting the most impressive Sound to Noise (S/N)* ratio, rotational stability and flutter, and wow ratio of any of its turntables. The exceptional SP-10R prototype features a new coreless direct drive motor and 7kg heavy platter, for outstanding audio quality. Reference Class Turntable Promising Outstanding Results The SP-10R features a brand new, coreless direct drive motor which, in addition to the two-sided rotor drive system that was used in the SL-1200G, boasts stator coils on both sides of the rotor, for a more powerful and accurate sound. The heavy platter features a three-layer structure consisting of brass, aluminum die-cast and deadening rubber, just like the platter of the SL-1200G. By optimising the natural frequency of each layer, external vibrations are thoroughly suppressed resulting in a beautifully clear and crisp audio experience. The SP-10R also features a new ultra-low-noise switching power supply, which, compared to a power supply unit using a transformer, is better at suppressing unwanted humming sounds and vibrations. The power supply unit is separate from the main turntable, preventing unwelcome noise from being transmitted to the turntable unit, for a sharper and clearer sound. Introduction to the Market Technics is working diligently towards an anticipated early summer launch for the SP-10R, and the new turntable will be interchangeable with systems using the SP10MK2** (released in 1975) and the SP-10MK3 (1981) – the two predecessors which have been highly evaluated by professional broadcasting stations and are still very much admired and used by many audiophiles world-wide. Technics also plans to market a complete turntable system based on SP-10R with a tonearm and other components. – ENDS – """
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
rauliruegas
Dear @downunder :
The SP-10MK3 is a great unit but the new Technics design comes with
fundamental/vital characteristics/changes over the MK3 where the MK3
can't compete no matter what: the new Technics comes with a totally new
motor design and now is coreless, its TT bearing is way superior, the TT
platter is way better damped than the " ringing " MK3 and many other
superior characteristics.
No, I don't have yet the opportunity to listen it but I don't need to listen to know its superiority and you neither. (??)
It's the time to let it go the MK3 and MK2s.
Really? With all due respect to this person, I cannot disagree more with this post. Where to begin....first, people bear in mind, the drive architecture of the SP10R is cloned from the little brother SL-1200 G. The new dc motor adds a second set of stator windings for increased torque and like the 1200G is coreless and brushless. Both torque and power of the MK3 dc motor is measurably greater. The 10R bearing remains tiny compared to the SP10MK3's oversized bearing, its a toothpick. The platter is multi layered, damped and dynamically balanced, like the Mk3, but weighs significantly less. The power supply is switching type, not a proper linear power supply, which the MK3 has. By the way, none of the stated factory specifications published by Technics thus far for the SP10R surpass the Technics Sp10MK3 technical bench specifications, nada = none. By the way, those whom actually own one can confirm the SP10MK3 platter does not have unwanted "ringing" characteristics. In my eyes, this makes it more of a new SP10MK2 v.2 per se, than anything else. I'll be ordering a new Technics SP10R at some point for fun to compare and because I think its a neat refresh of an established benchmark, but need to make some room first! ;) |
Dear friends: Another problem with that kind of " stamped " is that if one member ask to other: where go we?, the answer is: don't ask and keep running. Stamped leaves us to : nowhere. Terrible.
@halcro : """
Unhinged.......? 🙈 """
‘Alternate facts’......?
👺
those are your normal answers because almost ever/never have facts and share those " facts " ( if any. ) where you founded your " way of thinking ".
This thread shows that. No one of your posts tells any one you are rigth to started the " stamped ".
Obviously the thread is a learning lessons even for the ones that choosed don't participate in the " stampede " or in that lewm " terrorist " way of think: " change the caps and other parts on those vinatge TTs....... ".
@halcro , I hope that you learned too through this thread lessons . I have to say that I learned, thank's for that.
Enough, time to buy any of the new Technics TTs.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
‘Alternate facts’......?
👺 |
Dear friends: If we analizes step by step this thread and all the posted facts coming from each one of us we can think or better yet I think on it as what happens with a horse/gazelle stampedes where each member runs with out no single and true reason and runs because one to " nervous " member started to run to stay aways from " danger " that not really exist where some of those horses’s stapedes ends when the horses falls down a precipice.
There are several facts that tell us that exist no reason to the 101 " stampede " where no one of you stampede’s members never asked why you run and followed running till falls down: down there.
The " nervous " member that started the stampede not only " figured " that the 101 competes with the SP10MK2/3 or DP-100 or Exclusive P3 or Yamaha GT2000 or other top vintage or today units. Obviously the facts tell and told to all the stampede’s members that the 101 just can’t competes at that level and that’s only one parte of the average mediocrity even its price tell us:
when the mid-fi ( not top tiers. ) Denon ( 70/75 ), Technics ( SP15/25. ), Marantz, Pionners, Onkyo and even JVC models were all marketed with way higher prices than the 101 no one of you took in count. Even the JVC 70 that came with plinth and tonearm its price was only 65K yens ( higher than the 101 and like other 10 JV models the 70 came with coreless motor and double directional servos. ) when the P3 was 650K yens and the DP-100 900K yens and the Final or MS 1800K yens ! !
@halcro do you need more evidence on why I write here that this thread is the " century’s stampede " a glorious one where all the stampede’s members unfortunatily are in that deep cliff.
No, there are so many reasons why I was not a stampede member.
No one of you stopped ( at some time. ) to ask your self: hey what am I doing with? where are those reward? why is worth to do it?
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
I doubt any of this stuff can be repaired if something goes simply because the parts likely don't exist
wrong thinking, of the Technics 1200 lies almost everything. |
Hi Halcro,
I don't know the the patent applies due to the date as pointed out. Appears to be interesting reading that I hope to get to at some point. |
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