@ibelchev well thanks for the hidden things, very interesting however, the answer was given to say it is a beautiful design (original or OMA), you are as the owners can judge the performance, i do not own this turntable and not willing to buy it, but i like the design concept. p.s. i'm using AT's pneumatic footers for my audio gear too. |
chakster, The Verdier stands on three feet, which finally make the drive a mixed concept of mass and spring principle: in the three round recessed made in the artificial stone there are conical spiral springs which, according to Jean-Constant Verdier, are not compressed in the normal state. The damper chambers are sealed airtight (there is a buffer at the top and thick rubber gasket at the bottom). The height adjustment screws that protrude from the chassis serve to equalize the pressure. This is spring-air controlled pneumatic acting feet system for additional decoupling of the artificial stone base down to 3 Hz. If you see the technical drawing (cross section) of this Pneumatic Foot, you will be very surprised. This is just one of the many reasons the concept of this turntable to be compared with the ingenious constructions of Leonardo da Vinci. There are more hidden things, but modern audiophiles look at the beautiful pictures on beautiful websites ... |
chakster here is the one with engine, what was destroyed ? |
chakster Why are you showing us a car without an engine ? the OMA link you show is a Plankenstein. The Verdier concept and design has been destroyed. *********************************** Harold - buying a turntable is like spending money on stocks; but turntables are much more predictable. In both cases - especially if one is spending a tidy sum on a TT, one must look under the covers first. As this is a resonance vibration activity to generate a small signal, turntables follow the an iceberg analogy where two important areas (bearings/footings) not easily seen, need investigation. Many spend serious money on turntables, which end up needing "further" significant money spent on what the turntable sits on. Then, the turntable stand and the substructure it connects to, needs to be looked at and dealt with . IMO - This is not a good way to spend money. |
@ct0517 I think it is rather ugly. It is function over form. La Platine Verdier is definitely not ugly, especially in OMA plinth, it is absolutely beautiful. I think it's state of the art design. It’s been my personal experience in this eccentric, analog part of the hobby; that the best and longest lasting companies do not need fancy websites. Just an email and phone number, and referrals. You forgot to mention a fax then. It's not about something "fancy", it's about usability in the modern digital world, when people browse from mobile devices and order everything online to save the time, website can be very simple and almost fee (except the hosting). The time when designers charged too much for a website are gone, websites themes are free and ready to use, the owner have to upload his own images and text, this is very easy. The old school communication is OK when you're over 60, but when someone selling super expensive high-end gear and can't even manage a website it's kind of weird. Older people could easily ask their children to manage a website. There are some funny looking old school websites online from such old manufacturers, i bought my Yamamoto amp not so long ago, amazing amp, but company website is a time machine to the late 90's, look at this. I respect the reputation of the manufacturers, but they must think about their younger customers a bit too. Internet changed a lot since the late 90's and ignoring is not a good idea for business. This is a nice website from High-End manufacturer and here is another one. Both are very simple and almost fee to do. |
: ) The same with the humble Trans-Fi tonearm, it´s reasonably ugly, well to me at least, but it does the job, to get the music out of a record. Yes its beauty lies in design and functionality, not marketing hype with fancy websites full of beautiful photos and secondary information. Just email Andrey and he will make you a new true high quality tonearm, using today´s technology yet simple machinist work, and completely a new thinking of a tonearm, for a reasonable if not a ridiculous price. Actually La Platine Verdier was in my radar years ago but for financial reasons I went for another solution. |
It’s been my personal experience in this eccentric, analog part of the hobby; that the best and longest lasting companies do not need fancy websites. Just an email and phone number, and referrals. And as someone who has been in the IT business his whole career, I would be very wary of any Audio Analog company that spent a ton of money on their website. I can give examples of products I own from an era when two channel performance was the main driver. Today, I am sure their marketing takes a good chunk of the budget. Chakster - i think La Platine Verdier model is beautiful. I think it is rather ugly. It is function over form. What is beautiful is how its’ design works and plays records. Effortlessly. And it doesn’t ask a lot for a special place to be made for it to live on. Its design has taken care of those needs too. |
They are still in business ? The site looks like we’re in the 90’s again :)) I always liked the design of this turntable, i think La Platine Verdier model is beautiful. But i thought they do not make any turntables anymore, mainly because of the site which looks like the last update was made 25 years ago (my impression and i’ve seen it before). For example there are many Micro Seiki websites like this, but it’s just history of the brand, they do not make any turntables anymore. So JC Verdier is still in business in your opinion ? Reviews and information on that site is from the 80’s and tonearm on that turntables are from the same era like Audio Craft AC4400. It’s a time machine to the 80’s or what ? Did i miss something? |
@chakster @chakster What’s with the attitude? The JC Verdier Company is on your side of the pond. Google is your friend. Me thinks you have probably been down that DD turntable hole a little too long. Time to come up for some air. JC Verdier Website http://www.jcverdier.com/ Canada is a bilingual country so the French influence is there. With dealers nearby I was very lucky to find the rare Granito version many years ago. From the first record it was obvious. |
@ledoux1238 Sound Practices - valve/horn/turntable magazine was published by Joe Roberts in the 1990s in Austin, USA. Only 16 issues ever published. I think the whole collection is available in PDF format in the CD ROM here https://www.hificollective.co.uk/magazines/sound_practiceshome.html. I can send you photo of the article, but don't know how. Cheers |
@lbelchev, Thanks for the information. From the literature, it's obvious that there is a fair bit of thought that went into the motor construction. I peaked into the motor housing recently, having had the turntable for almost twenty years. While not an electrical engineer, the general construction inside the housing is impressive. Somehow it doesn't square with the criticism that the motor is less than stellar. I realised that this is a very amateurish observation. Recently, with the help of @ct0517 fine tuning the thread drive, I have been experiencing good results, i.e. stable pitch, with the stock motor. I still use a Sutherland Light Strobe. The indication from the strobe is that the speed is consistent, but not table at 33,33rpm, Finally I have a question: where can I find the 'Sound Practice'? Is this a newsletter put out by JC Verdier. Can't seem to find anything on the website. |
Here is some useful information about the Platine Verdier motor (J.C.Verdier, The Manufacturers’ corner, SOUND PRACTICES - Issue 11): "... First of all, let’s approach the question of the motor. Certainly, I use a motor marked Philips, a name that could make one think of an ordinary motor, because that big European trademark is very prominent in the mass market for consumer goods. That is misleading, because Philips is also very involved in very advanced technology. The motor used in the Platine Verdier is produced by a special branch named "Philips Technology". The motor is certainly not an ordinary part - given that the price is 2500 FF for one unit in the shop of the the French distributor! That is not exactly a gift for a motor of diameter 40mm and 50mm high. It must have something very special inside. Let us see: First af all, it is "low inertia" motor. In the case of Philips unit, that term refers to a very special technology. In "low inertia" motor, the turning part-the rotor-consist of a cooper coil, the turns almost parallel to the rotation axle cutting the field lines of the magnetic circuit, excited by a permanent magnet which is totally fixed. The weight of the rotor is reduced as much as possible, so the inertial tendency is small relative to the work provided by the motor. I must say that I don’t think that low inertia in itself is that interesting of a quality for turntable’s motor. It can even be a deficiency for players with relatively light platters, as indicated in my discussion of the value of mechanical braking below. Another quality of the low inertia motor is much more interesting and relevant to the issue at hand: its rotation speed depends directly on the DC voltage. A simple integrated circuit regulator such as an LM 338 is enough to obtain perfect stability of the speed. Let us come back to the motor description: The magnets are very powerful in a small package. They are metallic alloy (nothing like cheap ceramic magnets). The collector and the brushes are gold plated to minimize the resistance of the contacts. The axle of the motor turns in fitted and self lubricated bronze bearings, its diameter is 3mm. When the motor is powered at its nominal voltage of 12V, we hear the rubbing of the brushes on the collector. It requires a very small environment to be able to hear this small noise. In the Platine Verdier, the actual voltage applied to the motor is 3V for 33 RPM and 4V for 45 RPM. At those low voltages, it is necessary to pres your ear directly on the motor to hear the commutation sound..." |
@lewm I have revisited the SOTA website. This is a serious option. SOTA has a licensing agreement with Phoenix Engineering to use their PSU and Roadrunner since 2019. I think it was unavailable for a couple of years prior to 2019. I had been searching for one since 2018. Great news indeed. Thanks again! In the meanwhile, I am working with @ct0517 to set up the thread drive properly. There seems to be a few fundamentals that I have over -looked. |
@lewm, Thanks for the SOTA tips. I have been been looking at options for the stock motors ever since my latest system upgrades, Eminent Technology LFT-8b and a pair of Von Gaylord Nirvana 130W tube amps. The fluctuation in speed has become audibly disturbing on several records. And looking into replacement motors was, I thought, the way to go. However, Rudolph Ploeger of Callas Audio made a strong case of sticking with the stock motor with modification, hence my query. Frankly, I am quite uncertain which way to go. Perhaps as @ct0517 noted, a lot of misinformation with the PV's. I will PM a.s.a. I post this. |
Doug, Thanks for the Teres 320/Verdier comparison. I have always wondered about the relative value of the two decks. It does seem that a Verdier is not a great value compared to a Teres 320. Oh well! In the end, I believe the mag platter/bearing is a smart solution, short of a pressurized/expensive system like the Rockport, Walker, or Verdier's Magnum. It is clearly maintanence free with no valve or tubing to worrying about. And that is why I like it, not to mention that it can really make beautiful music. Charlie, I will keep your upgarde suggestions in mind. Thanks. And a Happy holiday to you all! Ledoux |
Ledoux, The standard option 1 GT Audio battery PSU links to the standard black motor unit. If you go for the fancy option 2 battery supply, you will need to add the GT Audio Motor Housing as well. I have the option 1, which is very good. It just removes the noise floor and the quiet passages are inky black and silent. For the time being use the SME V and the 501. When you do buy a Schroeder, just use the second arm board and sell the arm that you don't like. The best value Schroeder is the Model 2 carbon, which I use with my Allaerts MC1B (again best value Allaerts model). Hope this helps and have a Happy Christmas! Charlie |
"Not trying to start a fight. But IME anyone considering a PV should understand they won't get top class performance with the stock drive system. A new Galibier table would play better for less money out of the box, since it already comes with a good motor and belt." ------------------------------------------------------ Debatable. A PV is $6500-$7000 new. If you think the motor is an issue, you can get, for example, a TW Acustic DC motor + controller + belt for $2500. That puts you at $9000-$9500. Some Galibier options are less than that, but it seems most are there or higher. In any case, the PV mag bearing is a big plus...you can always do something about the motor at any time...perhaps when it fails? |
Ledoux, I haven't heard a Hyperspace but I have two friends with Verdiers, I owned a Teres 265 and now use a 320. I'd like to offer a different perspective. To my ears the 320 is a better table than an unmodded Verdier and even the 265 beats it in some ways. The PV's noisy motor and torque-robbing silk thread severely limit its performance. The PV has the world's quietest bearing, but if the motor is noisy and the table can't maintain accurate speed through stylus drag... I agree a PV with a better motor and drive belt (as from Galibier) would probably match or outplay a 320, as it should for 2x the price. Not trying to start a fight. But IME anyone considering a PV should understand they won't get top class performance with the stock drive system. A new Galibier table would play better for less money out of the box, since it already comes with a good motor and belt. Best, Doug |
Charlie, Thanks for the advice. Too many things to upgarde, the arm, the cartdridge, and now the battery pack! Do you connect the PSU directly to the Verdier motor drive or do you need the GT Audio motor? Birdyy8, Back to the original thread compairing the Verdier and the NA. I believe the NA Hyperspace is comparable to a Teres 200 series or lower 300 series , a Kuzma Ref., or a VPI Aries. The Veridier is a different proposition as is its price range. |
Ledoux, Get the Schroeder! Any Schroeder will be better than your SME 5. The best upgrade though for the Platine is a Battery PSU. I have the GT Audio PSU for my PV/SChroeder 2/Allaerts MC1b. THe battery supply transformed the Platine by reducing the noise level even further and providing much greater dynamic range. Charlie |
Interested in what Jaybo said myself beacuse I just am not sure the Hypersapce is the way for me to go.I am thinking of getting out of VPI Aries and into a multi arm deck but thought to equal what I have in sound qual;ity I would have to get Teres.Less pricey would be a Scheu (in this country Eurolab) both of which support two arms or (hitrd I think if you get base model) the Clearaudio Solution.Not crazy about the "space design" on Nottingham though I am really after performance.And if Hyperspace would do it there are a number of phono's or full Pre's that have MM AND a MC input.Best especially if you went with Clearaudio would be Asthetix Rhea (but at $4K maybe out of my range).It has three inputs which allow you to set everything from Gain,Capicitance, Polarity,Stereo or Mono etc all held in in three seperate inputs each with it's settingsa held ina memory.Pretty trick.But if I stay with tube (VPI I have or Graham) or head swapping (SME309?)to achieve multiple cartidge use one or two inputs is fine.But Nottingham maybe least expensive way to get second armboard so I am going to re-read reviews. Desicions,decisons in this stupid hobbyit's enough to make you just get and Ipod and download everything like 99.9999% of the world who think were nuts. Chazz |
I have compared the NA, Kuzma Ref, and the Verdier. I went with the Verdier. It is a much more sophisticated design with its magnetic platter. Its motor drive is the weak link, but it can be upgraded. The sound quality of a stock Verdier beats the NA Hyperspace. It has a blacker background, more detail, but warmer than the NA. |
both are great, but you may want to consider the thorens td350 too. it is among the best thorens models ever made, and is based on the same (but refined) fundamental virtues of the original 'classic' thorens models. of the two you're considering, the nottingham is built like a tank and one of the most reliable made. no fuss either. |
