Usher Mini Dancer 2 or Q Acoustics Concept 500 - Marantz PM Ki Ruby

@doni Interesting.  Thank you so much. I'll take a look!

Instead of a streamer with usb out and a DDC, you could get a streamer with I2S out, such as the PS Audio Airlens and go directly into the Pontus.  might save you some money.

prashanth14485

I get need to prioritize purchases, and like you will eventually be upgrading my streamer set up as well. Some have indicated that I'll no longer need the DDC after upgrade, but I'll let my ears be the judge.

I leave the light on, which is for positive phase....though like you, never heard much difference between the two. It was a couple of years ago when I tried though, and that was before I upgraded speakers, preamp, and two amplifiers

@vthokie83 hey, hope you enjoyed your vacation. Thanks for the detailed response. I am going to look into the I2S. I am still not familiar with the concept and what exactly it does. Sounds like I need a streamer with USB out and a DDC in order to utilize the I2S input in Pontus. Do I understand this correct? The other problem is that I want to get into Vinyl. Saving up to buy my first TT, so getting a new streamer and DDC will be challenging in the near term..lol

One last question, what do you recommend for Phase setting on the Pontus? Leave it on (light on) or off? I go back and forth and can’t tell much of a difference. I’m not sure what it does to be honest.

prashanth14485

Sorry for the late response, I was on vacation for a week

Congratulations on the Ushers, while I have not heard them....they have an excellent reputation.

Pontus II 12th - This is a giant killer of a DAC, much like your speakers....the kind of equipment that I am drawn to. IMO it is the best DAC under $3,500, and incredibly musical. I will only upgrade when I can afford a higher end Lampizator or the Denafrips Terminator Plus 12th or the like.

I use the Non Over Sampling mode (NOS), as I find it to be more musical and slightly warmer and "magical" especially on vocals. I can see some preferring the over sampling mode, to eke out some more detail, but I find it to be too analytical and less involving. I also use the slow filter, as I find the fast filter removes some of the detail.....it could be useful in a bright overly detailed system though

Another thing about the Pontus II (and other newer DACs frankly) is the use of an I2S input. I have a BlusSound Node 130, which has the USB output turned on (which your Node 2i does not). I take the output of the Node 130 via USB to a Denafrips Iris DDC and then I2S HDMI cable to the Pontus II DAC. This also was a very noticeable bump in quality, both the better clocking and the I2S connections probably equally contributing to the SQ bump.

I am sure they sound great.

I used to own some Usher Dancer TD-10, and I always thought they were a bit of a giant killer.

Sonically, they competed with speakers at not unsubstantially higher prices.

@steve59 i think you might have addressed my problem. I recently increased the gap between the speakers (taking them closer to the side walls) with the hope that it would improve the soundstage and imaging.  Maybe that's what has caused them to be sound a bit brighter recently.   I'm gonna pull them closer to each other (away from the side walls) and see if it helps. I'll let you know how it goes. Cheers

My BE 20 DMD's used the same tweeter and were highly detailed without sounding bright so I would agree you're just not finished with placement yet. Regarding break in...I did have 1 pair of speakers, the KEF R105/3 that seemed to take forever for the high fq's to settle in, otherwise more often than not I find placement and component matching make the biggest difference and regarding a bright or glaring sound that's most often an effect of reflected sound and pulling speakers a few feet away from sidewalls and tv monitor, if after the 200 hrs still sound harsh, helps.

@soix Thanks, and I hope the Ushers cooperate too.  The fact is that most days they sound beautiful.  As for leaving them on for break in, do they have to be at a certain volume? I can't have it playing at usual listening volume.. we work from home.  So does volume matter?

@vthokie83 thanks in advance for your help.  

Back to the Ushers. It’s been a weird experience so far.  You're gonna think that I am crazy but it sounds very different on different days.. Some days, they sound like a dream.. extremely natural, magical and musical…Also, i'm not sure if the Phase setting on Pontus affects the sound?  Should I leave it on or off?

Yeah, listening through the break-in process can be a real rollercoaster affair albeit interesting if at times frustrating.  If possible I’d leave music playing on them even while not listening to speed up the process and maybe experiment with placement — specifically less toe in to see if treble sounds better more off axis.  Glad the Pontus worked out and is exactly what I hoped you’d find, so now let’s just hope the Ushers cooperate and settle in even more to your liking.  🤞🤞🤞 Thanks for the update!  Unfortunately I’m not familiar with how Denafrips implements their phase function but I’d suspect it should sound better one way than the other.  Maybe someone like @vthokie83, who also owns a Pontus 2, could chime in with their thoughts on it. 

@steve59 thank you so much!

@soix Thanks for checking in.  I've had the Ushers for roughly 2 months now. Haven't clocked as many hours yet..  Probably 40-60 hours of listening in total. 

Also, I took your advise and bought the Pontus 2 12th anniversary and boy, its amazing.  Huge upgrade from the RME. Much wider and deeper sound stage, better imaging and way way more musical.  Added that touch of warmth I badly needed.

Back to the Ushers. Its been a weird experience so far.  You're gonna think that I am crazy but it sounds very different on different days.. Some days, they sound like a dream.. extremely natural, magical and musical..  I'm not good at describing sound.  but another days, it can go from harsh/ bright to dull sounding.  Strangest pair of speakers I've ever heard.  Overall. i think they're extremely detailed (I'm hearing stuff that I never heard with my Dynaudio Special 40s).. very good imaging and huge/massive sound stage.. Anyway, I'm just patiently waiting for those 200 hours to see how it evolves. I'm sorry if none of this makes any sense.. lol

I am also going back and forth between OS w/Slow filter and NOS on my Pontus. I see myself returning to the former (OS with Slow) as Nos sucks the life out of some recordings. Also, i'm not sure if the Phase setting on Pontus affects the sound?  Should I leave it on or off?

Any updates/thoughts as they’ve had more time on them?

Congrats, Usher speakers are competitive with anything you want to put them up against at a givin price point. 

Thanks for sharing your system components — most helpful.  I hear ya loud n clear on the wife front, and let’s see where things stand at around the 200 hour mark because things may well be very different by then.  I know you just dropped some coin on the speakers, but I’ll just share some unsolicited thoughts I think could be worth considering for the future or whenever FWIW.

- Your system could likely benefit from better speaker cables, and I’d highly recommend something like these Acoustic Zen cables (yeah I own them) as they do all the audiophile things in spades (pun intended) and sound very natural doing it.  I also think they’d very much synergize with and  compliment the Usher’s considerable strengths.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/235430798208

- A more organic-sounding DAC like the Denafrips Pontus 2 may also be very worth considering as your current DAC, while very good, leans more to the very neutral and maybe clinical side.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650096562-denafrips-pontus-ii-dac/

- Last, adding an external linear power supply (like Teddy Pardo, etc.) to your Node can yield significant improvements in performance and refinement for $400 or less.

I mention these only if after break in you’re curious about pushing or tweaking your system further.  Again, just fyi and FWIW.

@soix thank you.  Here’s my entire system.  I use Silnote Cables Classic RCA interconnect and Blue Jeans Cable Canare 4311 speaker cables.  

Unfortunately, acoustic treatment is not an option. Wifey will kick me out lol.. Its a living room setup in a condo.

So my only options are time and minor tweaks in gear :)

Congrats! Yeah you wanna give them at least 200 hours of playing time for the speakers to begin to settle in (and likely longer than that for full break in) so some patience is definitely warranted. Not only will the tweeters settle down, but the mid/woofs will also loosen up and likely balance out the sound further. That you’re already realizing some significant improvements even at this stage is very promising and will likely get even better. In the meantime you can experiment with toe in and speaker placement, and you might also consider eventually treating your room for things like first reflections from the side walls, etc. as that can have a big impact on the sound you hear (hanging blankets up temporarily can be helpful in experimenting with this). Also, what are your current cables/interconnects? I think just some more time will be your friend here. I almost returned my speakers after the first two weeks because they sounded so anemic, so things can change rather dramatically and completely understand the sometimes painful break-in process. Hang in there and you’ll be rewarded.

Hi everyone, @soix @audiotroy 

Apologies for the radio silence, and thanks for all the useful responses.  I really appreciate everyone's input.

I am happy to inform that I ended up buying the Usher MD 2s.  I have had them for a week or so with about 12 hours of listening so far.  Initial impressions that that these are much more revealing speakers than the Dyn Special 40s.  The mid range is much more forward and engaging, a lot of sparkle and details in the highs (perhaps a bit much on some recordings).. Love when I hear new sounds and instruments in songs that I never knew existed.  and the soundstage and sense of scale is massive with much better imaging.

Based on what I've read, they take 200 hours to burn in?  I love how they sound right now but it will be heavenly if they become a tiny bit less bright.  Do they really evolve and change with time?  Any tweaks or tricks? Thank you!

My pick in this price category is the Joseph Audio Profile that is an extremely well balanced speaker and has imaging/3D soundstage and pulls off a disappearing act that are among the best in the industry and would be well worth adding to your list.  People who’ve heard them with the $17k Perspectives say the Profiles capture a large portion of what the Perspectives offer, which says a lot I think. The Ushers are the best looking and best value of the bunch IMHO, and they also have considerably more bass capabilities than the others while the Q doesn’t dig really deep and the Profiles lie between the two. Both the Ushers and Profiles offer excellent and very natural midranges, and I know the Profile’s silk dome tweeter does an excellent job of providing lots of air and natural detail without straying to brightness. I’ve only heard the Ushers with the Beryllium tweeter that was likewise excellent but haven’t heard their DMD diamond tweeter in the current Mini 2, but I will note it’s the same custom built in-house tweeter they use in their $40k flagship that I find pretty incredible given the price of the Mini 2 (benefits of making your own drivers). I have no experience with the Q so can’t add anything there, but it did receive a very positive review in Stereophile along with very good measured results FWIW. These are all excellent speakers and hard to imagine you’d be less than thrilled with any of them, and none are a hard load so should be perfectly fine with your Ruby. If I’m you I’d read reviews and go hear as many as you can to whittle down to the one that seems to best deliver what specifically you’re looking for. Hope this helps, and best of luck.

look at Kef r11 very hard to beat at that price point we were an usher dealer for many years the ushers were always stellar then the ls50s came out and they were even Better than  the comparable ushers.

The new kef r series are amazing for the money.

Dave and Troy

audio intellect NJ

Kef dealers

@soix Well, I have moved to a larger condo. so looking for more presence, better bass response.  Prefer new but open to a good deal on used.

Really depends on what improvements and sound characteristics you’re looking for, and are you looking for new or used?