USB Reclocker

@singhm1 I have the DAVE DAC with the Farad Power supplies and I am very happy with the M-scaler upgrade.  It takes excellent internet service to work right.  You can't upscale a poor digital presentation.

Adding a reclocker is on my list of things to consider.  Along with a high end digital switch.

I have the Innuos Zenith MK3 streamer.  Are you streaming directly from your Roon Nucleus?  I didn't think that was an option.  I have the Core running on an Intel Nuc in ROCK mode.  

I'd be very interested in your impressions of the Innuos reclocker.

Jerry

Yes streaming from the Nucleus+. I was looking for feedback on the Innuos Reclocker to add to the signal from the Roon going to the DAVE. My reading suggests that the ethernet switch does not do anything to the signal due to TCP/IP (I am not a techy). I have not experimented but there are some videos on youtube  by Audio Science Review - Amir that suggest these make no difference. However, If a DAC got the cleanest signal I would think the DAC would be able to produce the best outcome and hence the USB reclocker.

Ignore ASR, or use them as a contrarian indicator. One of their videos rated Dave as inferior to a $150 chinese DAC based on their measurements. they just like to cause discussion generating clicks.

TCP/IP is a generic term for all the protocols on the internet. there are 2 main ones, streaming and packet delivery. Many get confused and apply packet delivery thinking to streaming. that is how they determine that you’re fine with a rusty clothes line and 2 tin cups.

Key is to get the streaming to the DAC with the least dropped bits and all arriving at the right time. Thus the highest quality equipment in the streaming path and the reclocker.

Jerry

Jerry, thanks for sharing. So you think that a high quality switch and a reclocker should have a pretty good outcome..  I thought the Farad power supplies significantly elevated the performance of the DAVE. Did you also change the power supply for the M-Scaler to a Farad as well? Did you find the M-Scaler to be a subtle improvement or as much as adding the Farad PSs.? 

@singhm1 I did buy the Farad for the M scaler as well.  I have to admit I was doing wholesale upgrades to many components and didn't go a good job of keeping track which one was most useful.  I do have a story to tell on the m-scaler.  for a while I was streaming wirelessly and I put the M-scaler in place and it sounded worse rather than better.  I sat it aside.  Soon I ran a temporary wire across the floor to see how it sounded while I was trying to figure out how to get a physical wire routed to the streamer.  I was shocked at the difference (Improvement).  At that time I put the M-scaler back in service and got the improvement that I had been expecting.  I went back and forth many times over several days to make sure I wasn't imagining it (which is my normal practice).  So bottom line is, the M-scaler will just make a bad digital signal worse.  Don't try to uscale a signal with a lot of dropped bits.  

your first sentence is perfect, "... a high quality switch and a reclocker should have a pretty good outcome..."   Should being the operative word.  

I have an audiophile switch now and I loaned to a friend and put the D-link switch back in and don't hear much difference.  Still doing research on that and that is why I'm following closely another active thread on streaming that has a lot of switch discussion in it.

Jerry

I would approach it differently. I would get a much better streamer. A good streamer will be quieter, make up for network deficits… etc. it is appropriate to pair a carefully chosen streamer of equal value to your DAC. Mine is actually more costly than my other components and digital sound is at the level of my great analog end. I have had streamers ~$3K, $5K, $10K, and $22K. Each bested the lower tier by a good margin. 

I would approach it differently. I would get a much better streamer.

I agree with this 100%. And you don’t even have to spend an arm and a leg. Something dedicated streamer comes in mind, like Sonore UltraRendu, or even microRendu, or Innuos Pulse (or Pulse Mini). Your Nucleus+ would still do the Roon Core (server) duties, and not the streaming duties. I no longer participate in ASR 2.0 the Roon Community Forums has gradually become, but as far as I recall, even Roon recommended using different machines for Core and Endpoint duties

This issue recently came up on the Musetec thread.  The benefits of a reclocker will be system specific.  If you want to try one, the new Singxer UIP-1 PRO at $275 seems to be a better bet, and much cheaper than the Innuos Phoenix.  Among other things the Singxer seems to have the advantage of galvanic isolation.  To make them comparable though you'd have to replace the Singxer's wall wart with an LPS. 

The Sonore ultraRendu is a great network streamer/player solution that is under $1K.  https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/music-players/products/ultrarendu  If you have questions, we are happy to assist.  Just click on the Contact Us button on the bottom right of our page. 

I recently purchased an Innuos Phoenix USB reclocker to fit in between my Innuos PULSE streamer and Chord M-Scaler (connected to a Chord Qutest DAC). It made a noticeable difference to the sound, and a more pleasing outcome than when I used a Denafrips Iris DDC. The improvement in sound quality is nothing dramatic but it’s certainly noticeable when you listen for a while and then remove it from the system. Is it worth the cost? I suppose that’s a personal judgement call but now that I’ve heard the difference it makes, I wouldn’t live without it.

+1 @ghdprentice 

@ghdprentice  why do you think this is so?  Is your expesive streamer doing onboard reclocking?  Anything else?

I haver read lately among innuos fans that some prefer the Zenith Mk3+Phenix USB reclocker+phoenixNET switch over the statement making me wonder if the statement has some of these features onboard....not sure what to think.

Jerry

A good streamer cashes the file, isolates electrically and vibration, and provides an enormously low noise floor in the output. I have owned many streamers… and choose them based on their sound quality not the technology employed. I fiddled with trying to get good sound quality out of PCs and  MACs… fiddling with power supplies, battery… etc. then my first high quality streamer, just put them all to shame. Then, every increment up had a profound improvement. 
 

I come from an IT background. I don’t want to fix the whole plumbing system to get great sound in my audio system. I prefer to plunk down a box and have audiophile level sound. This is what they do. I now run off a $69 wifi extender and my streamer sounds as good as my equivalently priced high end analog rig, 

A few folks have shown they can futz with the switch, and do all sorts of complicated intermediary steps and get a similar result… I am skeptical, but acknowledge it is probably possible. I would rather listen to music than futz with extra boxes and the infrastructure. 
 

I agree with ghdprentice.   I also have the chord DAVE with the Farad Power supplies, but instead of going the m-scaler route, which I had tried once before, I sold my Aurender N20 and bought a Grimm MU-1.   The MU-1 does a great job upscaling and added some nice warmth to the DAVE.